Discussion
I contracted very briefly for a large defence company many, many years ago and left after a short time due to massive pay discrepancies and the agency I was with basically having a "like it or lump it" attitude. So I told them to lump it and deal with the consequences. That was nothing to do with the firm, more the agency.
Ever since then I have been contacted numerous times and put forward for jobs at this firm and never hear anything., So always presumed I have been blacklisted.
Recently the same again, but this time I told the agent the story and asked him to get back in touch if he found out anything and he called back and said yes, they have blacklisted you.
I was wondering if this is even legal? Is there anything dodgy about this?
Obviously lots of firms do it on the quiet, but it sounds to me like this is a result of what happened in the past. Nothing to do with skills or anything. Just see the name and bin.
Very difficult to prove obviously, but wonder what peoples opinions might be? Clearly I walked out on a job, so hey, gotta expect a response. But surely there might be a time limit? They almost sound like they admitted it!
Have emailed their HR department obviously, be interested to see if they reply!
Ever since then I have been contacted numerous times and put forward for jobs at this firm and never hear anything., So always presumed I have been blacklisted.
Recently the same again, but this time I told the agent the story and asked him to get back in touch if he found out anything and he called back and said yes, they have blacklisted you.
I was wondering if this is even legal? Is there anything dodgy about this?
Obviously lots of firms do it on the quiet, but it sounds to me like this is a result of what happened in the past. Nothing to do with skills or anything. Just see the name and bin.
Very difficult to prove obviously, but wonder what peoples opinions might be? Clearly I walked out on a job, so hey, gotta expect a response. But surely there might be a time limit? They almost sound like they admitted it!
Have emailed their HR department obviously, be interested to see if they reply!
If the work exists within a competitive environment with many able to do the work, then yes, it is entirely possible that any agency might be inclined to bypass anyone that has previously been a thorn in the side, regardless of the context. And to be perfectly honest, I have a certain sympathy for that approach.
As for the legality of it, any company is free to employee / assign whoever they like providing that selection hasn't been influenced by the normal bounds of equality. Contracting falls under a slightly different category of employment but in either case, it's a matter of proving it, having someone to report it to and doing all this without becoming a bigger thorn in more people's sides. Length of time doesn't really have any bearing.
Your best approach would be to seek a face-to-face with the agency and plea case of a different, less-enlightened time in your life as reasoning for past actions - regardless of how you may still feel about.
As for the legality of it, any company is free to employee / assign whoever they like providing that selection hasn't been influenced by the normal bounds of equality. Contracting falls under a slightly different category of employment but in either case, it's a matter of proving it, having someone to report it to and doing all this without becoming a bigger thorn in more people's sides. Length of time doesn't really have any bearing.
Your best approach would be to seek a face-to-face with the agency and plea case of a different, less-enlightened time in your life as reasoning for past actions - regardless of how you may still feel about.
Edited by StevieBee on Tuesday 26th June 13:52
I know of someone who has been blacklisted after a similar stunt. Burned his bridges and he will never work for that company again until the management that he messed around are retired, circa 15 years now I reckon.
He was working as a contractor through an agency and left after a very short period at the start of a project ramping up, came back after 6 months working in the USA, and did exactly the same again! I heard a manager say "I never want to see him again". So yeah, won't be seeing him around for a while there.
The discrepancy you mentioned, was this a case of another contractor getting paid more than you for the same job or? Were you both on equal footing with regards to how you were being paid, was the agency operating as an umbrella for one of you and the other limited co?
You took on the contract knowing the rate and were happy accepting, so what was the problem? I've done plenty of contracts where others in the office are on less or more, some bigger places operate a "one rate fits all" sort of approach though. Sorry, being a t
t here but just strange to me, if I am not happy with an offer I won't accept it. Or did they move the goalposts after accepting?
He was working as a contractor through an agency and left after a very short period at the start of a project ramping up, came back after 6 months working in the USA, and did exactly the same again! I heard a manager say "I never want to see him again". So yeah, won't be seeing him around for a while there.
The discrepancy you mentioned, was this a case of another contractor getting paid more than you for the same job or? Were you both on equal footing with regards to how you were being paid, was the agency operating as an umbrella for one of you and the other limited co?
You took on the contract knowing the rate and were happy accepting, so what was the problem? I've done plenty of contracts where others in the office are on less or more, some bigger places operate a "one rate fits all" sort of approach though. Sorry, being a t
t here but just strange to me, if I am not happy with an offer I won't accept it. Or did they move the goalposts after accepting?chunder27 said:
For clarity
This was contract work via an agency for a company.
it is the company that have blacklisted me, not any agencies, where this is far more de rigeur and commonplace.
And it was to do with the hourly rate, nothing else.
OK, but my previous comment still applies regardless of who's doing the blacklisting. You just need some face time with the company rather than the agent - if that's possible.This was contract work via an agency for a company.
it is the company that have blacklisted me, not any agencies, where this is far more de rigeur and commonplace.
And it was to do with the hourly rate, nothing else.
Put yourself in their position: you have two guys put in front of you for a job for one. Both tick all the boxes so you're looking for reasons to choose one over the other. One has been a PIA previously. Who do you select?
I'm not criticising you at all - you may have had every cause to act as you did but the company is doing nothing wrong.
interesting thread - I have never known a list of people , as in an actual blacklist.
I do have a number of names in my head I would never hire, and would always recommend others don't.
If it's the same organisation, is it the same person in charge that just remembers? Or an actual physical black list.
Surely that is against some fair restriction of trade policy somewhere.
I do have a number of names in my head I would never hire, and would always recommend others don't.
If it's the same organisation, is it the same person in charge that just remembers? Or an actual physical black list.
Surely that is against some fair restriction of trade policy somewhere.
The Selfish Gene said:
interesting thread - I have never known a list of people , as in an actual blacklist.
I do have a number of names in my head I would never hire, and would always recommend others don't.
If it's the same organisation, is it the same person in charge that just remembers? Or an actual physical black list.
Surely that is against some fair restriction of trade policy somewhere.
Don't be daft. So long as you aren't discriminating on some protected characteristic (gender, race, religion etc.) a company is entirely at liberty to do business with whomever it chooses - or, in this case, doesn't choose.I do have a number of names in my head I would never hire, and would always recommend others don't.
If it's the same organisation, is it the same person in charge that just remembers? Or an actual physical black list.
Surely that is against some fair restriction of trade policy somewhere.
If they were trumpeting from the rooftops (or, more realistically, colluding in some 'industry blacklist') then I guess there's a possibility you might have a case for libel, assuming that what they were saying isn't true. Saying "don't hire deckster, he shags pigeons in the mail room at lunchtime' would probably be actionable; however "don't hire deckster, he's a grumpy sod and has holes in his socks" would be annoying to me but not against any law, so far as I'm aware.
This is a good lesson to not burn bridges. And quitting a job after a short time can be regarded as that.
I really don't understand why you are pursuing this with HR. You know they don't want to hire you again. HR will obviously never admit that even if the manager who has blacklisted you tells them that this the reason.
I really don't understand why you are pursuing this with HR. You know they don't want to hire you again. HR will obviously never admit that even if the manager who has blacklisted you tells them that this the reason.
deckster said:
Don't be daft. So long as you aren't discriminating on some protected characteristic (gender, race, religion etc.) a company is entirely at liberty to do business with whomever it chooses - or, in this case, doesn't choose.
If they were trumpeting from the rooftops (or, more realistically, colluding in some 'industry blacklist') then I guess there's a possibility you might have a case for libel, assuming that what they were saying isn't true. Saying "don't hire deckster, he shags pigeons in the mail room at lunchtime' would probably be actionable; however "don't hire deckster, he's a grumpy sod and has holes in his socks" would be annoying to me but not against any law, so far as I'm aware.
“I am pleased to say that this candidate is a former colleague of mine.If they were trumpeting from the rooftops (or, more realistically, colluding in some 'industry blacklist') then I guess there's a possibility you might have a case for libel, assuming that what they were saying isn't true. Saying "don't hire deckster, he shags pigeons in the mail room at lunchtime' would probably be actionable; however "don't hire deckster, he's a grumpy sod and has holes in his socks" would be annoying to me but not against any law, so far as I'm aware.
I would urge you to waste no time in making this candidate an offer of employment. All in all, I cannot say enough good things about this candidate or recommend him too highly.
In my opinion, you will be very fortunate to get this person to work for you.
I can assure you that no person would be better for the job. I most enthusiastically recommend this candidate with no qualifications whatsoever."
chunder27 said:
it is the company that have blacklisted me, not any agencies...
If you walk out on a job unilaterally, even if you are in the right, surely you knew they may do this? Just the way it goes. Forget about it. How did the wage issue happen by the way, did you not have a contract and terms agreed prior to starting with the agency?
Did you see out any notice period or just walk by the way?
Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 26th June 21:02
I have no intention of ever working there, and they would never employ me. This is merely an interesting thing to happen as I have been contacted numerous times by agencies and applied directly. And was fascinated to hear from an agency who I told this all to that they will not accept my CV, meaning I have been blacklisted. For a reason that was NOTHING to do with the company, ONLY the agency.
I suspect the agency probably got the arse and said I quit without any reason, and no question was asked. And they moed on, probaly dont even exist anymore.
I was contracting, there were numerous agencies involved, 20 dd people, all being paid different rates. My rate was low for the same job as everyone else (the difference top to high was £9ph, a staggering amount), I queried this initially with my manager (also a temp) and then with the agency and was told to like it or lump it.
So I lumped it as you would imagine, I refuse to work anywhere where I am paid almost half my peers.
I needed security clearance to work there so would imagine the blacklisting is because the firm perhaps had to pay for this.
This is one of the biggest defence firms in the world by the way.
Not thinking of moving, simply raising the point as I find it a little strange that a company unequivocally disregards a perfectly suitable candidate for something that happened 12 years ago and was nothing to do with them directly.
I suspect the agency probably got the arse and said I quit without any reason, and no question was asked. And they moed on, probaly dont even exist anymore.
I was contracting, there were numerous agencies involved, 20 dd people, all being paid different rates. My rate was low for the same job as everyone else (the difference top to high was £9ph, a staggering amount), I queried this initially with my manager (also a temp) and then with the agency and was told to like it or lump it.
So I lumped it as you would imagine, I refuse to work anywhere where I am paid almost half my peers.
I needed security clearance to work there so would imagine the blacklisting is because the firm perhaps had to pay for this.
This is one of the biggest defence firms in the world by the way.
Not thinking of moving, simply raising the point as I find it a little strange that a company unequivocally disregards a perfectly suitable candidate for something that happened 12 years ago and was nothing to do with them directly.
chunder27 said:
I was contracting, there were numerous agencies involved, 20 dd people, all being paid different rates. My rate was low for the same job as everyone else (the difference top to high was £9ph, a staggering amount), I queried this initially with my manager (also a temp) and then with the agency and was told to like it or lump it.
So I lumped it as you would imagine, I refuse to work anywhere where I am paid almost half my peers.
Nope, I would imagine you chose the like option...So I lumped it as you would imagine, I refuse to work anywhere where I am paid almost half my peers.
The way it works is that the company asks agencies to get in bodies, the company know that agencies are all about maximising their own cash, and they don't car, as long as the bodies appear and do the job.
The agency offered you a rate for a fixed term, you were happy to accept that rate.
It doesn't matter what others got, you said you would take the contract for the rate, and you didn't fully it.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that is how it unfortunately works. Happens in all sectors, agencies will judge how desperately keen a candidate is and increase their cut.
Unfortunately that is just the way it is. The matrix required you to fulfil the contract and leave amicably.
The time to negotiate is when the contract is done and you are renewing a new deal.
I'm with Hyphen on this.
If you were OK with the rate going in there's no point getting all offended when you discover you aren't doing as well as others on the same job. Either they were more impressive than you on the CV/recruitment process or they just did a better job negotiating a rate, either way it's an issue for you to improve on the next job - too late to change the one you're on.
Blacklisting does seem extreme but if they have other applicants that don't have a record of walking out it's hard to blame them for using them.
If you were OK with the rate going in there's no point getting all offended when you discover you aren't doing as well as others on the same job. Either they were more impressive than you on the CV/recruitment process or they just did a better job negotiating a rate, either way it's an issue for you to improve on the next job - too late to change the one you're on.
Blacklisting does seem extreme but if they have other applicants that don't have a record of walking out it's hard to blame them for using them.
GliderRider said:
If you were blacklisted from becoming an employee of the company, then the Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010, would protect you.
Only if the blacklisting was done on the very narrow grounds of being a member of a trade union. The Act doesn't give any such protection against blacklisting in the more general sense.I am very aware of how contracting works and have done the same with numerous companies. Most of them understand it's part of the deal with contracting and agencies deal with it every day as I am told.
Am certainly not averse to quitting a job if it is not right. That obviously incurs penalties with certain agencies etc. I am aware of that.
But, on this occasion I felt morally justified. And I know for a fact countless others did the same as I recall the self same job being advertised for months, meaning they were struggling for people or people kept leaving, and I am aware at least 3 other contractors who did the same as me. Be interested to know if they have been blacklisted too.
The job spec was the same regardless, nothing to do with negotiating, with the type of work I do, there is no negotiation, the rate is the rate. And yes initially I was fine with it.
But what would anyone else on here do if they found out their peers were being paid nearly double! Not sure too many of you would simply suck it up and put up with it.
Am certainly not averse to quitting a job if it is not right. That obviously incurs penalties with certain agencies etc. I am aware of that.
But, on this occasion I felt morally justified. And I know for a fact countless others did the same as I recall the self same job being advertised for months, meaning they were struggling for people or people kept leaving, and I am aware at least 3 other contractors who did the same as me. Be interested to know if they have been blacklisted too.
The job spec was the same regardless, nothing to do with negotiating, with the type of work I do, there is no negotiation, the rate is the rate. And yes initially I was fine with it.
But what would anyone else on here do if they found out their peers were being paid nearly double! Not sure too many of you would simply suck it up and put up with it.
chunder27 said:
But what would anyone else on here do if they found out their peers were being paid nearly double! Not sure too many of you would simply suck it up and put up with it.
I would have left for a better paying job as well. But I would not then expect that company to welcome me back with open arms...Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff