Public sector is killing me

[burritoNinja]

Perhaps a dramatic title but I’m in a situation I feel I will never get out of. I currently work in public sector but not a permanent staff member. We have 2 year contracts and work in benefits. Our daily routine is dealing with non stop abuse. Screamed at, sworn at, suicide calls and just generally non stop rubbish. It is truly killing me mentally. I dread going to work, I dread Monday morning once Saturday night arrives and I keep applying for jobs but getting nowhere. I have a computer science degree and currently nearly at end of a second computer science degree via OU. My goal is to get a Masters degree also within IT. I’m weeks into being 35 and just feel so trapped. I have worked in IT before as a software developer but that is going back 8 years now and I’m also a military veteran. Medically discharged from military and had a few years unemployed due to injuries. Been in public sector 2 years. I’ve met loads of recruitment agencies as near everything seems to be via them and my biggest drawback is that I don’t have recent commercial software development experience. I spoke to a great guy yesterday who became a chartered engineer at 40 and he gave good advice about my situation.

To be honest, I’m just feeling so lost and earning a low wage with a young family to provide for is just simply hard. I have a development portfolio and I have in past two years acheieved my CCNA and Microsoft software developer certifications to help boost my CV. I’m looking for advice on what else could I possibly do? I’ve even looked at going into business with my best friend who is also in same situation. We have looked at possibly having a small development studio. Though I think perhaps working in the industry might be more beneficial before we jump into that.

[CDP]

Maybe everybody with any get up and go got up and went but the public sector seems to attract and breed bad managers.

I'm not a fan of unions but it's probably worth it from a protection point of view. Keep an abuse diary and maybe leave the voice recorder on your PC running if the big swear culprits are about - then you can maybe get a complaint in.

Are you writing software in your day job? Is there any opportunity to do it? That way you will have recent commercial experience...

Additionally I'd suggest rather than second degrees how about a high quality open source project? Articles on LinkedIn, local Makerspace etc. Agencies aren't the only place to get a job - word of mouth really works too.

[burritoNinja]

CDP said:

Maybe everybody with any get up and go got up and went but the public sector seems to attract and breed bad managers.

I'm not a fan of unions but it's probably worth it from a protection point of view. Keep an abuse diary and maybe leave the voice recorder on your PC running if the big swear culprits are about - then you can maybe get a complaint in.

Are you writing software in your day job? Is there any opportunity to do it? That way you will have recent commercial experience...

Additionally I'd suggest rather than second degrees how about a high quality open source project? Articles on LinkedIn, local Makerspace etc. Agencies aren't the only place to get a job - word of mouth really works too.

Our managers seem ok. It’s the benefit claimants who swear and give us abuse all day.

[CDP]

burritoNinja said:

CDP said:

Maybe everybody with any get up and go got up and went but the public sector seems to attract and breed bad managers.

I'm not a fan of unions but it's probably worth it from a protection point of view. Keep an abuse diary and maybe leave the voice recorder on your PC running if the big swear culprits are about - then you can maybe get a complaint in.

Are you writing software in your day job? Is there any opportunity to do it? That way you will have recent commercial experience...

Additionally I'd suggest rather than second degrees how about a high quality open source project? Articles on LinkedIn, local Makerspace etc. Agencies aren't the only place to get a job - word of mouth really works too.

Our managers seem ok. It’s the benefit claimants who swear and give us abuse all day.

Oh, that's grim.

[MitchT]

Everyone I know who has a computer science degree is a full stack developer and literally fighting work off. They're all contracting for about £500/day 'cause they don't need to worry about finding work so no point being "employed" in the conventional sense. In your position I'd maybe do an "employed" stint to get into the groove and then go contacting to get the serious money once I was feeling confident.

[burritoNinja]

MitchT said:

Everyone I know who has a computer science degree is a full stack developer and literally fighting work off. They're all contracting for about £500/day 'cause they don't need to worry about finding work so no point being "employed" in the conventional sense. In your position I'd maybe do an "employed" stint to get into the groove and then go contacting to get the serious money once I was feeling confident.

I’ve just joined a few local developer groups. Going to attend and hopefully make friends and contacts. It’s full stack that I do in my personal time and what I previously did job wise.

[SeanyD]

The industry is screaming out for developers at all levels, from entry level up to Lead. Go for entry level, learn and progress at a sustainable rate of pay and ability, dont be greedy, and you'll have a good solid IT career ahead of you.

Break out of Public Sector before you become institutionalised. Only go back in 5 years time, but as a contractor, and on your terms, as best possible.

ETA what region are you in, appreciate the body you're working for is national, but they have a massive NE prescense. If you are NE, I can help.

Edited by SeanyD on Sunday 26th August 16:44

[CDP]

MitchT said:

Everyone I know who has a computer science degree is a full stack developer and literally fighting work off. They're all contracting for about £500/day 'cause they don't need to worry about finding work so no point being "employed" in the conventional sense. In your position I'd maybe do an "employed" stint to get into the groove and then go contacting to get the serious money once I was feeling confident.

Although I've been in the industry since early 1995 I'm still trying to work out what a "Full Stack" developer is.

It seems to be one of those terms banded round but the industry has such a wide scope I fail to see how this can be achieved.

[vsonix]

I'm hearing you on the public sector thing. A good few years back I left a tech support job for a well known financial firm and ended up working in tech support for a London borough as an agency worker instead (think Baby P/Victoria Climbié). Half the IT department had been suspended on full pay pending a 'circulation of racist email' internal scandal. Basically if you opened the message (which was basically just a tasteless meme that someone had 'distributed' by hitting 'forward to all' instead of to their mates as intended) and didn't delete it, you got suspended. So already that was a massive waste of money as there were literally dozens of people enjoying indefinite paid holiday at the taxpayers expense, and the wages weren't too shabby considering the workload was about 1/10th of what I'd been coping with at the finance company. It really was one extreme to the other - I was pretty badly overworked in my old job, but this was the bloody polar opposite. Two days into working there the manager pulled me aside for a word in my 'shell-like'. "vsonix, if you don't slow down, we'll have to let you go. If you keep finishing your work before it's due, we'll all get given more. Do not exceed the SLA under any circumstances". It was so dull I felt like topping myself. Not only that but the average quality of full-timer there was mediocre to say the least. Only place I've ever worked where if you had a low IQ you were more likely to get hired.

[Olivera]

OP, where are you based?

Many big cities in the UK have a shortage of developers.

[burritoNinja]

vsonix said:

I'm hearing you on the public sector thing. A good few years back I left a tech support job for a well known financial firm and ended up working in tech support for a London borough as an agency worker instead (think Baby P/Victoria Climbié). Half the IT department had been suspended on full pay pending a 'circulation of racist email' internal scandal. Basically if you opened the message (which was basically just a tasteless meme that someone had 'distributed' by hitting 'forward to all' instead of to their mates as intended) and didn't delete it, you got suspended. So already that was a massive waste of money as there were literally dozens of people enjoying indefinite paid holiday at the taxpayers expense, and the wages weren't too shabby considering the workload was about 1/10th of what I'd been coping with at the finance company. It really was one extreme to the other - I was pretty badly overworked in my old job, but this was the bloody polar opposite. Two days into working there the manager pulled me aside for a word in my 'shell-like'. "vsonix, if you don't slow down, we'll have to let you go. If you keep finishing your work before it's due, we'll all get given more. Do not exceed the SLA under any circumstances". It was so dull I felt like topping myself. Not only that but the average quality of full-timer there was mediocre to say the least. Only place I've ever worked where if you had a low IQ you were more likely to get hired.

Yeah it’s weird how you meet some of the most unintelligent, mediocre people in public sector. Most seem to be all washed up middle aged women and rest are agency staff desperate to find a real job.
I actually got told by a manager to stop doing so many benefit claims per day. Most permanent staff were more interested in leaving work early and having a gossip fest.

[CDP]

Olivera said:

OP, where are you based?

Many big cities in the UK have a shortage of developers.

This is true, it's quite hard to recruit.

Try looking up the local science and business parks and contacting the HR of any companies you're interested in directly. Best still if you can find out the name of the person in HR - ringing the switchboard might be enough.

One thing I'm wondering is if a handwritten letter addressed to the person in question would help you stand out from the crowd combined with a well presented CV? I don't think many of those are seen these days so a bit of "old school" might get you past the filters. Of course your writing has to be neat and spelling impeccable - what do others think?

[Oilchange]

Can't say I'd stand for the verbal, don't care about peoples personal circumstances, manners first imo. I'd give as good as I got and to hell with them

[vsonix]

burritoNinja said:

vsonix said:

I'm hearing you on the public sector thing. A good few years back I left a tech support job for a well known financial firm and ended up working in tech support for a London borough as an agency worker instead (think Baby P/Victoria Climbié). Half the IT department had been suspended on full pay pending a 'circulation of racist email' internal scandal. Basically if you opened the message (which was basically just a tasteless meme that someone had 'distributed' by hitting 'forward to all' instead of to their mates as intended) and didn't delete it, you got suspended. So already that was a massive waste of money as there were literally dozens of people enjoying indefinite paid holiday at the taxpayers expense, and the wages weren't too shabby considering the workload was about 1/10th of what I'd been coping with at the finance company. It really was one extreme to the other - I was pretty badly overworked in my old job, but this was the bloody polar opposite. Two days into working there the manager pulled me aside for a word in my 'shell-like'. "vsonix, if you don't slow down, we'll have to let you go. If you keep finishing your work before it's due, we'll all get given more. Do not exceed the SLA under any circumstances". It was so dull I felt like topping myself. Not only that but the average quality of full-timer there was mediocre to say the least. Only place I've ever worked where if you had a low IQ you were more likely to get hired.

Yeah it’s weird how you meet some of the most unintelligent, mediocre people in public sector. Most seem to be all washed up middle aged women and rest are agency staff desperate to find a real job.
I actually got told by a manager to stop doing so many benefit claims per day. Most permanent staff were more interested in leaving work early and having a gossip fest.

It's so inefficient. Most of the people who had been suspended on full pay were off work for EIGHT MONTHS. That's 8 months for dozens of people on average £26k per annum. Then the Borough had to fork out for my wage as well which was a miserable £9 an hour (although they were paying the temp agency more like £16). And those who are 'lucky' enough to work there basically have the cushiest job ever - as long as they turn up on time, the amount of work they have to do is probably no more challenging than an average GCSE student would be expected to turn in as homework. And the job security is unparalleled. I've nothing against unions, I think we probably actually need more of them, but any attempt at firing people for anything other than gross misconduct and UNISON will be in there making it as hard as possible - so even the most dimwitted person who makes a dozen mistakes a day can feel safe that they have their job for life. Compare that with working for a company that actually has to turn a profit or go bankrupt, the majority of this council workers wouldn't last a day.

[burritoNinja]

vsonix said:

It's so inefficient. Most of the people who had been suspended on full pay were off work for EIGHT MONTHS. That's 8 months for dozens of people on average £26k per annum. Then the Borough had to fork out for my wage as well which was a miserable £9 an hour (although they were paying the temp agency more like £16). And those who are 'lucky' enough to work there basically have the cushiest job ever - as long as they turn up on time, the amount of work they have to do is probably no more challenging than an average GCSE student would be expected to turn in as homework. And the job security is unparalleled. I've nothing against unions, I think we probably actually need more of them, but any attempt at firing people for anything other than gross misconduct and UNISON will be in there making it as hard as possible - so even the most dimwitted person who makes a dozen mistakes a day can feel safe that they have their job for life. Compare that with working for a company that actually has to turn a profit or go bankrupt, the majority of this council workers wouldn't last a day.

100% agree. I’ve seen over 30 agency staff fired in the past two years for what would be minor to medium incidents yet I’ve seen permanent civil servants carry out racism in public, constantly late to work and doing next to nothing and don’t even start on the amount of them off “sick” for months on end on full pay. Yet if you’re agency and fart the wrong way you get fired.

[vsonix]

burritoNinja said:

. Yet if you’re agency and fart the wrong way you get fired.

Of course, and as agency staff you don't actually get sick pay so if you do have to take time off not only can you not afford to pay your rent that month but you'll probably get fired anyway. Alternatively, if you are halfway decent at your job, you show up regularly, you do just the right amount of work to keep the higher-ups satisfied but not embarrass them by overperforming, you can end up doing the same job for a year or more but never actually get made permanent. Which is fun. Not. The agency I was working for probably placed 80% of its workers at the Council. I had something like five contracts there in a row, one of them was a full 9 months. I worked as IT support, training administrator, in parking service, revenues and benefits, housing, back to IT support again. Bloody ridiculous, I probably had a better understanding of the way the place worked and how everything was interconnected than most middle and upper management, and all on an insultingly basic temp's wage.

[burritoNinja]

vsonix said:

Of course, and as agency staff you don't actually get sick pay so if you do have to take time off not only can you not afford to pay your rent that month but you'll probably get fired anyway. Alternatively, if you are halfway decent at your job, you show up regularly, you do just the right amount of work to keep the higher-ups satisfied but not embarrass them by overperforming, you can end up doing the same job for a year or more but never actually get made permanent. Which is fun. Not. The agency I was working for probably placed 80% of its workers at the Council. I had something like five contracts there in a row, one of them was a full 9 months. I worked as IT support, training administrator, in parking service, revenues and benefits, housing, back to IT support again. Bloody ridiculous, I probably had a better understanding of the way the place worked and how everything was interconnected than most middle and upper management, and all on an insultingly basic temp's wage.

We get £21,000 a year and one thing that most benefit claimants dealing with us don’t realise is that a large amount of agency workers there with kids are receiving benefits themselves due to low pay. It’s pure irony the government go on about employers providing secure and well paid work to people yet the civil service uses thousands of low paid agency staff who have zero job security and many depend on child tax credits and working tax to survive. Like you mentioned yourself, if we miss one day at work we go a day without pay. I’ve seen a few fired for having three sick days in the space of one month. Yet permanent staff can be off for months and not a word said. I truly despise the situation I’ve found myself in. Sat here looking on job sites and really going to push myself to get what I deserve in life.

[RizzoTheRat]

Given that you have military experience, have you looked at defence firms that develop software? A lot of them love people with military experience as they understand the customers, but there's not that many ex-mil around with software development experience. There's the big firms like BAe, QinetiQ, Thales, etc, but also a host of smaller companies that are working on projects both direct for the MoD or as part of bigger consortiums.

[burritoNinja]

RizzoTheRat said:

Given that you have military experience, have you looked at defence firms that develop software? A lot of them love people with military experience as they understand the customers, but there's not that many ex-mil around with software development experience. There's the big firms like BAe, QinetiQ, Thales, etc, but also a host of smaller companies that are working on projects both direct for the MoD or as part of bigger consortiums.

I’ve been looking into that option. Even looked at government agencies that need software developers for national issues. Would be an amazing job. The masters degree I’m interested in is for cyber security. I’ve been holding cyber security as a goal. Though will definitely be looking at your suggestions. Off work due to bank holiday so spending the day looking.

[Olivera]

burritoNinja said:

The masters degree I’m interested in is for cyber security. I’ve been holding cyber security as a goal.

You already have a computer science degree and various certifications. I would honestly cease any further education and put all your time and effort into securing another developer role, or failing that any IT role.

You've still not mentioned where you are based? If it's the arse end of nowhere then you might need to up sticks if you want your career to progress.