My "rights" while signed off sick
Discussion
I've had a part time job in a supermarket petrol station for 8 years. In that time i've been off sick for 4 days.
The company have been piling on more and more pressure over the past year or so. Last Sunday I was working alone, several IT problems, so I was trying to deal with customers and the IT help desk at the same time. I couldn't get any help from management. My colleague didn't show up for work. Management said that I would have to work alone for 4 hours. I couldn't cope, told them I was going home. I sat out the back and waited for someone to come over from the store. When they did, I went home. I called the sick line that afternoon, said I wouldn't be back in the next day (I only work Sundays and Mondays).
I managed to get a doctor's appointment on Friday. He asked me a few questions, basically clarifying that I wasn't suicidal or depressed. I explained that I had suffered from depression in the past, but this was different. I am fine from Tuesday to Friday. I get anxious on Saturday because I'm due back at work on Sunday. While I'm at work I get raging headaches, can't wait to leave.
Doctor was happy to give me a 4 week sick note, which I took into work straight away. As far as I'm concerned, I have 4 weeks to either sort my head out, sort out the conditions at work, or pack the job in. Doc said I could go back and get another sick note if I needed longer to work through it.
This morning I went out for a couple of hours. When I got home there was a message from work. Manager phoned as she "wants a chat. Will ring back".
Last thing I need right now is a phone conversation with a manager. Just thinking about it is stressing me.
TLDR: I'm signed off work for 4 weeks with stress. Does my employer have the right to keep phoning me? Do I have the right to not engage with them while I'm signed off?
The company have been piling on more and more pressure over the past year or so. Last Sunday I was working alone, several IT problems, so I was trying to deal with customers and the IT help desk at the same time. I couldn't get any help from management. My colleague didn't show up for work. Management said that I would have to work alone for 4 hours. I couldn't cope, told them I was going home. I sat out the back and waited for someone to come over from the store. When they did, I went home. I called the sick line that afternoon, said I wouldn't be back in the next day (I only work Sundays and Mondays).
I managed to get a doctor's appointment on Friday. He asked me a few questions, basically clarifying that I wasn't suicidal or depressed. I explained that I had suffered from depression in the past, but this was different. I am fine from Tuesday to Friday. I get anxious on Saturday because I'm due back at work on Sunday. While I'm at work I get raging headaches, can't wait to leave.
Doctor was happy to give me a 4 week sick note, which I took into work straight away. As far as I'm concerned, I have 4 weeks to either sort my head out, sort out the conditions at work, or pack the job in. Doc said I could go back and get another sick note if I needed longer to work through it.
This morning I went out for a couple of hours. When I got home there was a message from work. Manager phoned as she "wants a chat. Will ring back".
Last thing I need right now is a phone conversation with a manager. Just thinking about it is stressing me.
TLDR: I'm signed off work for 4 weeks with stress. Does my employer have the right to keep phoning me? Do I have the right to not engage with them while I'm signed off?
clockworks said:
As far as I'm concerned, I have 4 weeks to either sort my head out, sort out the conditions at work, or pack the job in.
Do I have the right to not engage with them while I'm signed off?
How are you going to sort the work conditions out without speaking to them?Do I have the right to not engage with them while I'm signed off?
Not trying to be smart but I'd be talking to them.
Thesprucegoose said:
surely if work is the issue here wouldn't it best to open up lines of communication instead of burying your head? Also use the time to find another job.
I’d say this. 4 weeks off ignoring the issue isn’t going to fix anything, it will likely make you more anxious about going back!Two options, quit, or try and sort it out!
clockworks said:
I've had a part time job in a supermarket petrol station for 8 years. In that time i've been off sick for 4 days.
The company have been piling on more and more pressure over the past year or so. Last Sunday I was working alone, several IT problems, so I was trying to deal with customers and the IT help desk at the same time. I couldn't get any help from management. My colleague didn't show up for work. Management said that I would have to work alone for 4 hours. I couldn't cope, told them I was going home. I sat out the back and waited for someone to come over from the store. When they did, I went home. I called the sick line that afternoon, said I wouldn't be back in the next day (I only work Sundays and Mondays).
I managed to get a doctor's appointment on Friday. He asked me a few questions, basically clarifying that I wasn't suicidal or depressed. I explained that I had suffered from depression in the past, but this was different. I am fine from Tuesday to Friday. I get anxious on Saturday because I'm due back at work on Sunday. While I'm at work I get raging headaches, can't wait to leave.
Doctor was happy to give me a 4 week sick note, which I took into work straight away. As far as I'm concerned, I have 4 weeks to either sort my head out, sort out the conditions at work, or pack the job in. Doc said I could go back and get another sick note if I needed longer to work through it.
This morning I went out for a couple of hours. When I got home there was a message from work. Manager phoned as she "wants a chat. Will ring back".
Last thing I need right now is a phone conversation with a manager. Just thinking about it is stressing me.
TLDR: I'm signed off work for 4 weeks with stress. Does my employer have the right to keep phoning me? Do I have the right to not engage with them while I'm signed off?
How do you think they can put reasonable measures in place to make the job more compatible with your state of mental health if you don't communicate openly with them.The company have been piling on more and more pressure over the past year or so. Last Sunday I was working alone, several IT problems, so I was trying to deal with customers and the IT help desk at the same time. I couldn't get any help from management. My colleague didn't show up for work. Management said that I would have to work alone for 4 hours. I couldn't cope, told them I was going home. I sat out the back and waited for someone to come over from the store. When they did, I went home. I called the sick line that afternoon, said I wouldn't be back in the next day (I only work Sundays and Mondays).
I managed to get a doctor's appointment on Friday. He asked me a few questions, basically clarifying that I wasn't suicidal or depressed. I explained that I had suffered from depression in the past, but this was different. I am fine from Tuesday to Friday. I get anxious on Saturday because I'm due back at work on Sunday. While I'm at work I get raging headaches, can't wait to leave.
Doctor was happy to give me a 4 week sick note, which I took into work straight away. As far as I'm concerned, I have 4 weeks to either sort my head out, sort out the conditions at work, or pack the job in. Doc said I could go back and get another sick note if I needed longer to work through it.
This morning I went out for a couple of hours. When I got home there was a message from work. Manager phoned as she "wants a chat. Will ring back".
Last thing I need right now is a phone conversation with a manager. Just thinking about it is stressing me.
TLDR: I'm signed off work for 4 weeks with stress. Does my employer have the right to keep phoning me? Do I have the right to not engage with them while I'm signed off?
Do you genuinely want the issues dealt with or are you just out to get some extra free paid leave?
Tbh nothing in your description of the job sounds too ominous for a normal human being, it just sounds like work. Work isn't sunshine and lollipops all the time, thats why they pay you to do it.
When the person from the shop arrived did you offer to stay on if they assisted?
What does your job description and company handbook say about loneworking?
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Saturday 22 September 13:03
I can see the need for communication if the situation is to be resolved, but not the day after I handed in my sick note. I need some time to clear my head before speaking to management. If I try now, I won't be objective.
We have been lone working for 18 months. There was a period of consultation, everyone affected was given the option to transfer if they didn't want to do lone working. The company handbook was updated, and we were assured that the rules would be observed. Local management haven't kept to the rules when it doesn't suit them. This has caused endless issues and extra pressure.
The rules clearly state that we can only be single-manned when there is a fully trained (competent) colleague available in the main store to assist us. We should get assistance within 5 minutes of making a phone call to the duty manager. If the store cannot supply a competent colleague within the 5 minutes, we should close the petrol station.
More often than not, we cannot even make contact with the duty manager within 5 minutes. Phones aren't answered, or are just "unobtainable". When we do get through, we are often told that no-one is available. It's not unusual to wait 20 or 30 minutes for support from the store. This is totally against company rules.
On Sunday I was faced with a shop full of customers, no working tills, no working pumps, and no support from management. This is not "normal working practice". I wasn't prepared to put up with this for 4 hours. This is a "minimum wage" job remember. I am not a manager.
The problems have been compounded recently by new till software which is running on obsolete hardware, hence the frequent problems. We are calling IT following a total crash nearly every day. The pumps go down a couple of times a day. Pay at pump stops working multiple times a day. This causes frustration for customers and colleagues. with 2 members of staff on duty, we can cope - one to deal with customers, one to try and resolve the problems with the help desk. It's not possible for one person to do both at the same time. We are not allowed to close the forecourt while the issues are resolved. We rely on support from the store, and it is often not forthcoming.
Hence the stress.
The situation was made worse again when we had a management reshuffle. We lost all the team leaders (who were the day to day hands on managers) and now have managers who rarely leave the comfort of their offices. Many of them have never actually sat on a till or stacked a shelf, and they certainly don't chip in and help like they used to. I've never seen anything like this as company policy in a retail environment, and it isn't working in practice. "Remote" managers who won't engage with customers or staff, or do any actual work outside of their offices.
We have been having horrendous queues in the main store and on the forecourt. We are in a tourist area, so we get a few temps in to help over the summer. They have now gone, but we still have plenty of tourists here - older people, people with no kids, Germans and Dutch. People who come here after the schools have gone back because it's cheaper. The queues have been longer than during the week before Christmas, no extra staff working. still the managers hide in their offices. It is a very stressful environment, and it's taking it's toll. Morale is on the floor, and sickness has skyrocketed as a result.
I can't see the situation changing. I think I will end up quitting. I don't want to, as I will miss some of my colleagues and customers. I have had several discussions about the situation with managers. They tell me it will change, just a temporary blip, it won't happen again.
It does change, but for the worst.
Our USP as a company has always been great customer service. That has gone. It makes me sad.
We have been lone working for 18 months. There was a period of consultation, everyone affected was given the option to transfer if they didn't want to do lone working. The company handbook was updated, and we were assured that the rules would be observed. Local management haven't kept to the rules when it doesn't suit them. This has caused endless issues and extra pressure.
The rules clearly state that we can only be single-manned when there is a fully trained (competent) colleague available in the main store to assist us. We should get assistance within 5 minutes of making a phone call to the duty manager. If the store cannot supply a competent colleague within the 5 minutes, we should close the petrol station.
More often than not, we cannot even make contact with the duty manager within 5 minutes. Phones aren't answered, or are just "unobtainable". When we do get through, we are often told that no-one is available. It's not unusual to wait 20 or 30 minutes for support from the store. This is totally against company rules.
On Sunday I was faced with a shop full of customers, no working tills, no working pumps, and no support from management. This is not "normal working practice". I wasn't prepared to put up with this for 4 hours. This is a "minimum wage" job remember. I am not a manager.
The problems have been compounded recently by new till software which is running on obsolete hardware, hence the frequent problems. We are calling IT following a total crash nearly every day. The pumps go down a couple of times a day. Pay at pump stops working multiple times a day. This causes frustration for customers and colleagues. with 2 members of staff on duty, we can cope - one to deal with customers, one to try and resolve the problems with the help desk. It's not possible for one person to do both at the same time. We are not allowed to close the forecourt while the issues are resolved. We rely on support from the store, and it is often not forthcoming.
Hence the stress.
The situation was made worse again when we had a management reshuffle. We lost all the team leaders (who were the day to day hands on managers) and now have managers who rarely leave the comfort of their offices. Many of them have never actually sat on a till or stacked a shelf, and they certainly don't chip in and help like they used to. I've never seen anything like this as company policy in a retail environment, and it isn't working in practice. "Remote" managers who won't engage with customers or staff, or do any actual work outside of their offices.
We have been having horrendous queues in the main store and on the forecourt. We are in a tourist area, so we get a few temps in to help over the summer. They have now gone, but we still have plenty of tourists here - older people, people with no kids, Germans and Dutch. People who come here after the schools have gone back because it's cheaper. The queues have been longer than during the week before Christmas, no extra staff working. still the managers hide in their offices. It is a very stressful environment, and it's taking it's toll. Morale is on the floor, and sickness has skyrocketed as a result.
I can't see the situation changing. I think I will end up quitting. I don't want to, as I will miss some of my colleagues and customers. I have had several discussions about the situation with managers. They tell me it will change, just a temporary blip, it won't happen again.
It does change, but for the worst.
Our USP as a company has always been great customer service. That has gone. It makes me sad.
S100HP said:
With respect, it's just pressing buttons on a till in a petrol station for 2 days a week. Man the f
k up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy.
And this is why it’s hard to talk about mental health issues. k up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy. Good luck in getting it resolved. Do you have a company health line you can ring? Those services are normally really good for all sorts of confidential advice. I’m using my work one at the moment for phone counselling.
HorneyMX5 said:
S100HP said:
With respect, it's just pressing buttons on a till in a petrol station for 2 days a week. Man the fk up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy.
And this is why it’s hard to talk about mental health issues. k up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy. Good luck in getting it resolved. Do you have a company health line you can ring? Those services are normally really good for all sorts of confidential advice. I’m using my work one at the moment for phone counselling.
OP, ignore all the keyboard warriors saying mtfu and similar. Mental health issues can make even the most normal and simple things feel impossible to deal with. Is there someone who can speak to your employer on your behalf to explain the situation? If no, send an email saying that you're not well enough to speak to them yet. If you were in hospital after an operation they wouldn't be on the blower!
As someone who has both been off with depression and also managed staff who have needed support, do what you need to do to feel better. Everything else can wait.
The thing is customer service is great when you have happy customers but when it goes wrong you are the point of call. So you either can deal with it or not. I've been there, I had to ring thousands of customers after the warehouse burnt down, do you think I enjoyed that?
Yes the managers are st but are you in a union? Have you written your concerns to them? Why not ask to push trolleys round or something else if you feel the conditions are bad. Not saying anything will not help at all.
You could tell the manager via email, telephone please don't contact me I will contact you. You need to basically man up and deal with it, they have a right to find out why you are off to deal with the problem.
Yes the managers are s
t but are you in a union? Have you written your concerns to them? Why not ask to push trolleys round or something else if you feel the conditions are bad. Not saying anything will not help at all.You could tell the manager via email, telephone please don't contact me I will contact you. You need to basically man up and deal with it, they have a right to find out why you are off to deal with the problem.
TonyRPH said:
Well, that's at least three people in this thread who have no understanding of stress.
In fact, I wondered if either of them had even read the OP thouroughly.
I have plenty understanding of stress, you have no idea the amount of sIn fact, I wondered if either of them had even read the OP thouroughly.
t I have had to go through. Flouncing and hiding away is never the answer though. The job is the job, and all the pressures that go along with it. For your own sake if its harming you do something else, its minimum wage, nothing else is a step down in pay so the world is your oyster. stting on your colleagues who have to pick up the slack isnt the answer. At least if you have the decency to quit they can go ahead and replace you with someone who is appreciative of the employment.The question asked in the OP was is it ok for the employer to have any contact with the employee, and yes, it is, there should be an absence procedure in place, and the employer has a right to discuss with the employee the reason for absence. This is perfectly reasonable, and tbh in the case of a large firm the employer will be walking on eggshells throughout, I am sure they will be very polite, calm and measured. They will want to know what they can do to support the employees recovery and return to work and they will want to identify the reasons behind the absence and to try to solve the problems.
Failure to participate can be fair grounds for dismissal legally, and IMO that is fair, just disappearing and refusing to communicate is taking the piss, full stop, and that is reflected in the law.
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Saturday 22 September 16:28
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Absolutely
One of they biggest sources of stress in the workplace is dealing with people
I'd find that scenario stressful- people get angry when stuck in queues waiting for petrol etc- unreasonably angry (stabby angry), and if one poor sod is expected to cope with all by himself without support that sounds absolutely like a recipe for disaster. Go read the thread on Ladbrokes lone working to understand better- significant numbers of lone workers are being murdered, raped and assualted every year.
So why do people accept loneworking positions if they aren't up for it? Its denying the opportunity from someone who enjoys working without someone looking over their shoulder all day.One of they biggest sources of stress in the workplace is dealing with people
I'd find that scenario stressful- people get angry when stuck in queues waiting for petrol etc- unreasonably angry (stabby angry), and if one poor sod is expected to cope with all by himself without support that sounds absolutely like a recipe for disaster. Go read the thread on Ladbrokes lone working to understand better- significant numbers of lone workers are being murdered, raped and assualted every year.
S100HP said:
With respect, it's just pressing buttons on a till in a petrol station for 2 days a week. Man the fk up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy.
That's kind of what's behind the problems. It is supposed to be an undemanding job, the kind of job that just about anyone can rock up to, put in the hours, then go home and forget about it. That's what I signed up for, something not too taxing to keep me in pocket money as I approach retirement age. that's how it was for almost 7 years. It's changed. Us minimum wage drones are now effectively running a £10 million a year business with little or no support, rubbish IT, and not enough knowledge to get more than the basics done. We carry the can when things go wrong. The managers get paid for doing this stuff, but don't do it. We don't get paid for doing it, but have to because no-one else will. We do our best. Eventually something has to give, and last Sunday it was me.k up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy. Yes, it is a mental health issue. It's affecting most of us, except for the ones who don't really care about anything, the ones who don't think, or who have never known anything different. This has gone beyond the normal workplace whingeing. I have colleagues who can't sleep, or wake up and cry about having to face another day at work.
I know enough about myself to recognise that the way I feel and react at work isn't healthy. Running away felt like the only option last Sunday. I need time to come to terms with it and quit my job. I'm fed up with the BS that management spout when I express my concerns. I want out.
What's stopping me? The fact that it's been 41 years since I quit a job. I've put my hand up for voluntary redundancy twice, but I've never quit since I was 19. It scares me a little. I know it's something I have to do though.
clockworks said:
That's kind of what's behind the problems. It is supposed to be an undemanding job, the kind of job that just about anyone can rock up to, put in the hours, then go home and forget about it. That's what I signed up for, something not too taxing to keep me in pocket money as I approach retirement age. that's how it was for almost 7 years. It's changed. Us minimum wage drones are now effectively running a £10 million a year business with little or no support, rubbish IT, and not enough knowledge to get more than the basics done. We carry the can when things go wrong. The managers get paid for doing this stuff, but don't do it. We don't get paid for doing it, but have to because no-one else will. We do our best. Eventually something has to give, and last Sunday it was me.
Yes, it is a mental health issue. It's affecting most of us, except for the ones who don't really care about anything, the ones who don't think, or who have never known anything different. This has gone beyond the normal workplace whingeing. I have colleagues who can't sleep, or wake up and cry about having to face another day at work.
I know enough about myself to recognise that the way I feel and react at work isn't healthy. Running away felt like the only option last Sunday. I need time to come to terms with it and quit my job. I'm fed up with the BS that management spout when I express my concerns. I want out.
What's stopping me? The fact that it's been 41 years since I quit a job. I've put my hand up for voluntary redundancy twice, but I've never quit since I was 19. It scares me a little. I know it's something I have to do though.
Well I genuinely wish you good luck in finding something else more suitable, but imo its only reasonable to have a 10 minute convo with your manager.Yes, it is a mental health issue. It's affecting most of us, except for the ones who don't really care about anything, the ones who don't think, or who have never known anything different. This has gone beyond the normal workplace whingeing. I have colleagues who can't sleep, or wake up and cry about having to face another day at work.
I know enough about myself to recognise that the way I feel and react at work isn't healthy. Running away felt like the only option last Sunday. I need time to come to terms with it and quit my job. I'm fed up with the BS that management spout when I express my concerns. I want out.
What's stopping me? The fact that it's been 41 years since I quit a job. I've put my hand up for voluntary redundancy twice, but I've never quit since I was 19. It scares me a little. I know it's something I have to do though.
Tape it.
If your manager is decent bit a bit detached from the reality of what its like at the coalface this might be the kick up the arse to sort out some problems.
If your manager is s
t then you can use the recording to drop them in the st.You have power in this situation.
Hiding away and refusing to participate makes it look like you are in the wrong.
A lot of people commenting have no idea what retail work is actually like, and are normally the rude bds that expect the earth for nothing.
OP you need to get a new job, it's time to move on. Been in your shoes more than once and the only resolution is to leave.
You have 4 weeks to find a new job, good luck
ds that expect the earth for nothing.OP you need to get a new job, it's time to move on. Been in your shoes more than once and the only resolution is to leave.
You have 4 weeks to find a new job, good luck
Ignore the flak, there's nothing wrong in finding your limit and saying "no more", another guy might bottle it up then go home and take it out on his wife or snipe at strangers on the internet.
You obviously don't need this flak and it sounds like you don't need the job that much so you're the minors canary in the situation, the employer has a system in place which they're not working to so by their own definition they're asking too much of you, so I'd just make that point. Its not unreasonable for the manager to want to contact you but I get why its the last thing you need, would email, written letter, or a go between such as a colleague be a better way to pass any info on?
You obviously don't need this flak and it sounds like you don't need the job that much so you're the minors canary in the situation, the employer has a system in place which they're not working to so by their own definition they're asking too much of you, so I'd just make that point. Its not unreasonable for the manager to want to contact you but I get why its the last thing you need, would email, written letter, or a go between such as a colleague be a better way to pass any info on?
S100HP said:
With respect, it's just pressing buttons on a till in a petrol station for 2 days a week. Man the fk up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy.
Guy is asking for help, if you cant be constructive then don't comment.k up. If you're watching colleagues getting their legs blown off or something I might have sympathy. OP you do need to man up though - open communication with the supermarket speak to HR. You need to be honest and tell them what is happening.
They will asses this and see what adjustments can be made to your job to help you within reasonable reason, they don't need to do much other than follow the H&S guidelines and ensure that you are trained and safe at your work.
IT issues are not your responsibility if there is an IT issue then what is the standard response, you should have a set of procedures that you follow, company rules. etc.
Trouble is there are jobs that don't suit some and if its not suiting you then you will need to make a decision based on your health. work shouldn't make you like this.
Don't feel bad about 'quitting'. It's no reflection on you, and there's no prizes at the end for being unhappy in your work. They've turned a job you liked into a job you don't. So leave them to it and find another one.
Honestly, it's not worth the space it's taking up in your head. You've been there seven years, you don't owe them anything (and they don't really owe you much either) so find a nicer place to work.
If, once you have a job you enjoy, you still find yourself depressed or unhappy, then it's maybe time to seek proper medical advice.
Honestly, it's not worth the space it's taking up in your head. You've been there seven years, you don't owe them anything (and they don't really owe you much either) so find a nicer place to work.
If, once you have a job you enjoy, you still find yourself depressed or unhappy, then it's maybe time to seek proper medical advice.
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