Redundancy process: when to deploy employment lawyer?
Discussion
A colleague started a 45-day consultation process two weeks ago. At the end of the consultation early/mid March, assuming that wraps up according plan, she'll be given her redundancy notice, though will have to work her three month notice period before she leaves (corporate policy - no-one gets their notice period paid out).
So far, so normal.
She had some concerns about how the process was launched and how selection was made, but was reasonably philosophical about them, and just thought that she'd tread water quietly and see the process out. However, even this short way in to the process, she has now found herself not invited to two separate meetings about work she has been, to date, either leading or instrumental in, i.e. her bosses behaving as if she has already gone.
I think that claiming constructive dismissal would be financially counter-productive; she'd be exchanging a guaranteed redundancy package in 4 months time for the whims of an employment tribunal in... who knows when.
But I hear of plenty of people involving an employment solicitor during redundancy processes and want to know: should they be involved during consultation, or should the employee wait until consultation has passed and the redundancy notice issued, i.e. it has turned from an idea into a course of action, so that the lawyers can argue against that defined thing, rather just the idea?
So far, so normal.
She had some concerns about how the process was launched and how selection was made, but was reasonably philosophical about them, and just thought that she'd tread water quietly and see the process out. However, even this short way in to the process, she has now found herself not invited to two separate meetings about work she has been, to date, either leading or instrumental in, i.e. her bosses behaving as if she has already gone.
I think that claiming constructive dismissal would be financially counter-productive; she'd be exchanging a guaranteed redundancy package in 4 months time for the whims of an employment tribunal in... who knows when.
But I hear of plenty of people involving an employment solicitor during redundancy processes and want to know: should they be involved during consultation, or should the employee wait until consultation has passed and the redundancy notice issued, i.e. it has turned from an idea into a course of action, so that the lawyers can argue against that defined thing, rather just the idea?
What does she want from the process?
- Get out early?
- Make sure she is paid her full redundancy and notice period?
- Interesting, engaging work up until the time she leaves?
- Get one over on the company/management?
It might be worth considering offering to enter into negotiation of a settlement agreement once the redundancy notice has been issued to see if a solution that is better for both sides can be found. For example, if the company want to treat her as if she is no longer there, it might be better for her to get out early (and for the company not to have to pay her for such a long notice period).
- Get out early?
- Make sure she is paid her full redundancy and notice period?
- Interesting, engaging work up until the time she leaves?
- Get one over on the company/management?
It might be worth considering offering to enter into negotiation of a settlement agreement once the redundancy notice has been issued to see if a solution that is better for both sides can be found. For example, if the company want to treat her as if she is no longer there, it might be better for her to get out early (and for the company not to have to pay her for such a long notice period).
Hey Jeremy
She is quite annoyed about the whole thing, as it was something of a panicked, last minute, money-saving solution when management's Plan A went south.
Decided to take the pragmatic approach - as I mentioned in my OP - but this recent behaviour has really thrown her.
I guess she wants to optimise her payout - she doesn't have something to bounce straight into, so wants to keep the wolves from the door as long as possible. I'd heard that involving employment solicitors in redundancy processes where things weren't being administered smoothly could assist with such optimisation, but just wasn't sure at what point she should involve them.
She is quite annoyed about the whole thing, as it was something of a panicked, last minute, money-saving solution when management's Plan A went south.
Decided to take the pragmatic approach - as I mentioned in my OP - but this recent behaviour has really thrown her.
I guess she wants to optimise her payout - she doesn't have something to bounce straight into, so wants to keep the wolves from the door as long as possible. I'd heard that involving employment solicitors in redundancy processes where things weren't being administered smoothly could assist with such optimisation, but just wasn't sure at what point she should involve them.
Having just been through something like this, I negotiated a package for voluntary redundancy (paid amount and tax free amount) she s more likely to get somewhere if she asks what the policy would be on voluntary redundancy (the beauty is they cannot use it in there scoring process for redundancy) So you cannot lose IMO
A205GTI said:
Having just been through something like this, I negotiated a package for voluntary redundancy (paid amount and tax free amount) she s more likely to get somewhere if she asks what the policy would be on voluntary redundancy (the beauty is they cannot use it in there scoring process for redundancy) So you cannot lose IMO
The VR and compulsory packages are identical. Same payout, same notice policy.Probably not worth the hassle, doesn't sound like they will be flexible or negotiate. The only thing the employment lawyer can do is advise you on your rights (and responsibilities). They might pick up on any procedural errors, but if you are paying for the lawyer (versus having one available through insurance, trade union or similar) then with an employer who sound to be short-sighted, spiteful and miserly I don't see you making a "profit" from the effort.
Head down, take maximum time off possible for job-hunting and see it out I think.
Head down, take maximum time off possible for job-hunting and see it out I think.
What does she expect though, the reality of these situations is redundancy is often a done deal, the consultation allows time for other roles to be considered, and sometimes that is genuine, but a lot of the time the decision was made at the start that person (though should be that role) is gone.
So of course colleagues are going to start cutting her out of work, for many reasons. Possibly because if she is going there is no point in engaging with her, and also perhaps because they'll assume she's focussing on the redundancies, chasing internal roles, talking to specialists about CVs, interview techniques etc.
It is a shame she isn't getting PILON, but she should be allowed time off for interviews/training you'd hope.
Just to add, I really wouldn't bother with employment lawyer, unless she has real concerns about the process. I'd say join a union if not too late, but often they won't take on issues if you've joined because of that issue.
So of course colleagues are going to start cutting her out of work, for many reasons. Possibly because if she is going there is no point in engaging with her, and also perhaps because they'll assume she's focussing on the redundancies, chasing internal roles, talking to specialists about CVs, interview techniques etc.
It is a shame she isn't getting PILON, but she should be allowed time off for interviews/training you'd hope.
Just to add, I really wouldn't bother with employment lawyer, unless she has real concerns about the process. I'd say join a union if not too late, but often they won't take on issues if you've joined because of that issue.
Edited by ozzuk on Tuesday 5th February 18:03
Jasandjules said:
It may be prudent to seek to obtain another job - firstly what restrictive covenants are there?
Secondly, once she has another job offer she may well want to engage an employment lawyer to see if an enhanced package can be obtained.
If she was engaging a lawyer I think I'd ask how enforceable would those restrictive covenants be? As we've heard from the departed BreadVan, they are quite often too wide to be enforceable anyway and in a redundancy situation would the court take an even dimmer view of an attempt to prevent someone from working?Secondly, once she has another job offer she may well want to engage an employment lawyer to see if an enhanced package can be obtained.
Flooble said:
If she was engaging a lawyer I think I'd ask how enforceable would those restrictive covenants be? As we've heard from the departed BreadVan, they are quite often too wide to be enforceable anyway and in a redundancy situation would the court take an even dimmer view of an attempt to prevent someone from working?
Also consideration as to whether or not some exemption can be engaged subject to the remit of the same. Which is why I asked about them in the first place.............Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff