Career crossroads...anyone here a milkman?
Discussion
I'm 51 years old, and at a bit of a career crossroads really.
Currently, I work from home with a curious mix of income generators. I'm sole parent of two lads in full time education so am obviously looked after in terms of housing benefit, working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit. I also do some part time work as a courier (£500 a month) and as a football analyst (varies, but usually around £150-200 a month).
My lads (twins) are both off to Uni in just over three months time. Different uni's in different parts of the country doing different courses. It goes without saying that as a lone parent for seven years now, it will be heartbreaking to see them go. They're both bright kids and should get their grades to get into their choice of Uni. I'm so proud of what they have achieved having been through a fair degree of crap and by God, I'll miss them.
Which leaves me. Clearly my income is going to reduce dramatically when they leave home. CB will stop, HB would reduce, I'd still get WTC but not CTC and all that is based on me continuing those part time hours. A part of me is a little scared of getting back into full time work, having been self employed now for 14 years, and having put on a shed load of weight in the intervening years, my self esteem has taken a real battering.
Recently, I saw an ad for a milkman. Local to me, the list of attributes they want from their milkmen is no problem to me. Lone working experience, working in all weathers experience, physical job capability, clean-ish licence, ability to manage the round - no issues whatsoever. My career before going self employed was in account management and sales and I can tick every box they throw at me.
Just not sure I can do it. The money is more than I've ever earned working (£24k) and I can certainly keep the courier job going too, as my round will finish at 7.30pm and the courier round starts at 8.30 (it's about 90 minutes work each morning!). That would give me an income of around £30k which would help me (a) clear my debts (b) get fit and (c) improve my self esteem a little, working properly again. Think I'd have to give up most of the football analyst work though, some of it is evening games which wouldn't finish in time.
Just writing this down has helped me. I have no one I can confide in and just guess I need to get it off my chest. Is there any milkmen out there, past or present with any advice? Or anyone else with an opinion?
Currently, I work from home with a curious mix of income generators. I'm sole parent of two lads in full time education so am obviously looked after in terms of housing benefit, working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit. I also do some part time work as a courier (£500 a month) and as a football analyst (varies, but usually around £150-200 a month).
My lads (twins) are both off to Uni in just over three months time. Different uni's in different parts of the country doing different courses. It goes without saying that as a lone parent for seven years now, it will be heartbreaking to see them go. They're both bright kids and should get their grades to get into their choice of Uni. I'm so proud of what they have achieved having been through a fair degree of crap and by God, I'll miss them.
Which leaves me. Clearly my income is going to reduce dramatically when they leave home. CB will stop, HB would reduce, I'd still get WTC but not CTC and all that is based on me continuing those part time hours. A part of me is a little scared of getting back into full time work, having been self employed now for 14 years, and having put on a shed load of weight in the intervening years, my self esteem has taken a real battering.
Recently, I saw an ad for a milkman. Local to me, the list of attributes they want from their milkmen is no problem to me. Lone working experience, working in all weathers experience, physical job capability, clean-ish licence, ability to manage the round - no issues whatsoever. My career before going self employed was in account management and sales and I can tick every box they throw at me.
Just not sure I can do it. The money is more than I've ever earned working (£24k) and I can certainly keep the courier job going too, as my round will finish at 7.30pm and the courier round starts at 8.30 (it's about 90 minutes work each morning!). That would give me an income of around £30k which would help me (a) clear my debts (b) get fit and (c) improve my self esteem a little, working properly again. Think I'd have to give up most of the football analyst work though, some of it is evening games which wouldn't finish in time.
Just writing this down has helped me. I have no one I can confide in and just guess I need to get it off my chest. Is there any milkmen out there, past or present with any advice? Or anyone else with an opinion?
I worked as a milkman for about 2 years some 25 years ago.
Downsides
Very early starts making your life into that of a hermit and completely anti social Its a six day week
Rounds were very long,deliveries were in serious decline and sometimes it was one delivery in a street and the next one would be 4 or 5 streets away
It was a cash business, any bad debts came out of your money,any stock shortages came out of your money, it was down to you to get the accounts settled. If a customer said they had paid the company would side with them and deduct your money.
I would be sceptical if your round will finish as early as they say, the earliest any of our guys finished was 10.30. It was not uncommon to be out until 3.30 on cash collection days and you would need two of those in a week. Oh and then there was doing your books, every customer, every week all 450 of them.
You work all weathers,rain,cold ice you are out there.Its easy to pick up an injury, slippy path with a handful of bottles anyone? That was a nasty one
Kids nicking milk off your float,poorly maintained floats they were death traps and mot exempt.
Lots of extra stuff to flog your customers,sack of spuds anyone, deliver 5 in a day its another 10 minutes on your round.
Upsides
It will get you fit. Nobody will be able to keep up with you when you walk
Would i recommend it? No
I needed a job so i stuck it for a while, it put enormous pressure on my relationship, I was always tired. I was 30 at the time, I sure couldnt do it now.
I know things have changed a bit, you will probably have a flat bed van as opposed to a float and people probably pay by app or direct debit these days and your round accounts will be on pda. There is maybe a resurgence in milk deliveries as we dont like plastic bottles so we will have it delivered in a dirty diesel van in a recyclable glass bottle.
My advice in all honesty would be get a postmans job. Better hours, easier work and loads of overtime.
Anything else you want to know please ask away
Downsides
Very early starts making your life into that of a hermit and completely anti social Its a six day week
Rounds were very long,deliveries were in serious decline and sometimes it was one delivery in a street and the next one would be 4 or 5 streets away
It was a cash business, any bad debts came out of your money,any stock shortages came out of your money, it was down to you to get the accounts settled. If a customer said they had paid the company would side with them and deduct your money.
I would be sceptical if your round will finish as early as they say, the earliest any of our guys finished was 10.30. It was not uncommon to be out until 3.30 on cash collection days and you would need two of those in a week. Oh and then there was doing your books, every customer, every week all 450 of them.
You work all weathers,rain,cold ice you are out there.Its easy to pick up an injury, slippy path with a handful of bottles anyone? That was a nasty one
Kids nicking milk off your float,poorly maintained floats they were death traps and mot exempt.
Lots of extra stuff to flog your customers,sack of spuds anyone, deliver 5 in a day its another 10 minutes on your round.
Upsides
It will get you fit. Nobody will be able to keep up with you when you walk
Would i recommend it? No
I needed a job so i stuck it for a while, it put enormous pressure on my relationship, I was always tired. I was 30 at the time, I sure couldnt do it now.
I know things have changed a bit, you will probably have a flat bed van as opposed to a float and people probably pay by app or direct debit these days and your round accounts will be on pda. There is maybe a resurgence in milk deliveries as we dont like plastic bottles so we will have it delivered in a dirty diesel van in a recyclable glass bottle.
My advice in all honesty would be get a postmans job. Better hours, easier work and loads of overtime.
Anything else you want to know please ask away
GloverMart said:
I'm 51 years old, and at a bit of a career crossroads really.
Currently, I work from home with a curious mix of income generators. I'm sole parent of two lads in full time education so am obviously looked after in terms of housing benefit, working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit. I also do some part time work as a courier (£500 a month) and as a football analyst (varies, but usually around £150-200 a month).
My lads (twins) are both off to Uni in just over three months time. Different uni's in different parts of the country doing different courses. It goes without saying that as a lone parent for seven years now, it will be heartbreaking to see them go. They're both bright kids and should get their grades to get into their choice of Uni. I'm so proud of what they have achieved having been through a fair degree of crap and by God, I'll miss them.
Which leaves me. Clearly my income is going to reduce dramatically when they leave home. CB will stop, HB would reduce, I'd still get WTC but not CTC and all that is based on me continuing those part time hours. A part of me is a little scared of getting back into full time work, having been self employed now for 14 years, and having put on a shed load of weight in the intervening years, my self esteem has taken a real battering.
Recently, I saw an ad for a milkman. Local to me, the list of attributes they want from their milkmen is no problem to me. Lone working experience, working in all weathers experience, physical job capability, clean-ish licence, ability to manage the round - no issues whatsoever. My career before going self employed was in account management and sales and I can tick every box they throw at me.
Just not sure I can do it. The money is more than I've ever earned working (£24k) and I can certainly keep the courier job going too, as my round will finish at 7.30pm and the courier round starts at 8.30 (it's about 90 minutes work each morning!). That would give me an income of around £30k which would help me (a) clear my debts (b) get fit and (c) improve my self esteem a little, working properly again. Think I'd have to give up most of the football analyst work though, some of it is evening games which wouldn't finish in time.
Just writing this down has helped me. I have no one I can confide in and just guess I need to get it off my chest. Is there any milkmen out there, past or present with any advice? Or anyone else with an opinion?
I have never been a milkman, but from what you write it appears that you make a good candidate for the job. My late dad retired from his own business and for his own reasons went on to be a postie. He didn’t need the money but needed the job IYSWIM. No experience of anything similar and smashed the job leading to a cushty little number making the datapost service (which had never previously worked) run like clockwork. Lots of job satisfaction, it made him happy.Currently, I work from home with a curious mix of income generators. I'm sole parent of two lads in full time education so am obviously looked after in terms of housing benefit, working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit. I also do some part time work as a courier (£500 a month) and as a football analyst (varies, but usually around £150-200 a month).
My lads (twins) are both off to Uni in just over three months time. Different uni's in different parts of the country doing different courses. It goes without saying that as a lone parent for seven years now, it will be heartbreaking to see them go. They're both bright kids and should get their grades to get into their choice of Uni. I'm so proud of what they have achieved having been through a fair degree of crap and by God, I'll miss them.
Which leaves me. Clearly my income is going to reduce dramatically when they leave home. CB will stop, HB would reduce, I'd still get WTC but not CTC and all that is based on me continuing those part time hours. A part of me is a little scared of getting back into full time work, having been self employed now for 14 years, and having put on a shed load of weight in the intervening years, my self esteem has taken a real battering.
Recently, I saw an ad for a milkman. Local to me, the list of attributes they want from their milkmen is no problem to me. Lone working experience, working in all weathers experience, physical job capability, clean-ish licence, ability to manage the round - no issues whatsoever. My career before going self employed was in account management and sales and I can tick every box they throw at me.
Just not sure I can do it. The money is more than I've ever earned working (£24k) and I can certainly keep the courier job going too, as my round will finish at 7.30pm and the courier round starts at 8.30 (it's about 90 minutes work each morning!). That would give me an income of around £30k which would help me (a) clear my debts (b) get fit and (c) improve my self esteem a little, working properly again. Think I'd have to give up most of the football analyst work though, some of it is evening games which wouldn't finish in time.
Just writing this down has helped me. I have no one I can confide in and just guess I need to get it off my chest. Is there any milkmen out there, past or present with any advice? Or anyone else with an opinion?
It seems a positive move in many ways (health etc) and improves your financial position. I can’t see any downsides in what you are saying if you are ok with the hours and compensation.
So go for it, let your self-esteem see how well you are doing it and and I wish you the very best of luck. If you are in my area (Pompey), 8 semi skimmed a week please and we can talk about eggs and bacon later.
Fair play to you op as you seem to have just about resigned yourself to the notion of working full time (horror of horrors)
But I always find it ironic when people talk of their income ''dropping drastically'' when their ''dependant'' kids leave home or gain employment (often seen on mumsnet) and they can't even comprehend the concept of actually going out and working full time.
It just shows how it's actually the parents that are financially dependant on their kids and how this ridiculously overly generous benefits system is set up to reward people who choose to have kids they can't afford and then play the system accordingly.
(I'm not saying the op has ''played the system'' in terms of having kids just for the benefits, in fact I imagine being a man it would be quite hard to do)
But I always find it ironic when people talk of their income ''dropping drastically'' when their ''dependant'' kids leave home or gain employment (often seen on mumsnet) and they can't even comprehend the concept of actually going out and working full time.
It just shows how it's actually the parents that are financially dependant on their kids and how this ridiculously overly generous benefits system is set up to reward people who choose to have kids they can't afford and then play the system accordingly.
(I'm not saying the op has ''played the system'' in terms of having kids just for the benefits, in fact I imagine being a man it would be quite hard to do)
Are you keen to keep your flexibility rather than working full time? I know of a couple of Dads in your position and they have their own business to keep flexibility. One services lawnmowers which he can do 2 per day on the clients own site and apart from an old van and a few spares it is low startup cost and flexible. Another is a handyman and in communities with older people he does simple stuff like changing light bulbs, putting up shelves and easy gardening.
Is there anything like this which would enable you to be flexible?
To answer your question, milkman or postie seem like potential roles. My retired father in law considered driving for Hertz/sixth to collect people. It was not hard work but sociable and brought in money. My Dad took on a flexible job surveying industrial parks to check tenants were keeping to the rules
Good luck in your search
Is there anything like this which would enable you to be flexible?
To answer your question, milkman or postie seem like potential roles. My retired father in law considered driving for Hertz/sixth to collect people. It was not hard work but sociable and brought in money. My Dad took on a flexible job surveying industrial parks to check tenants were keeping to the rules
Good luck in your search
Thanks for all the messages so far, it's much appreciated....
In no particular order....(and because I can't do multi-quoting
)
Mike74 - I don't take offence as you are quite correct about parents needing the kids in order to stay afloat. I worked full time hours from the age of 16 (1984) until 2012, either as PAYE or self-employed. My two lads came to live with me literally overnight (it's a long story) so I had to give up full time work to look after them. That obviously caused issues financially but yes, the government do look after you if you are careful with your money, you can manage ok.
Jiffle - thanks mate. I'm not practical in any way, I can't even wire a plug or change a wheel. It would probably have to be something web-related if I continue down the same road.
Bristol Racer - thanks for taking the time out to write such an informative post (I'm in Bristol too). The hours, they say, are 11pm till 7.00am and six nights a week and although some of the working conditions are a legacy from the old days, it has improved somewhat. There is little money collection these days and the 7.00am is pretty accurate as they have a guarantee to their customers to deliver by 7.00am. It is PDA-driven and it's a LHD diesel flat bed float..... none of that worries me really. The only bit I'm concerned about, and it's a big issue, is the anti-social bit. Not only will you not see anyone as milkmen these days are more of a nights job than an early morning one, but I'll be sleeping when everyone else is active. I'd planned to sleep either between 10am and 5pm or 3pm to 10pm. I manage nowadays on 5-6 hours most nights, though my weight issue also seems to interrupt my sleep. I'm quite a sociable, friendly chap and go to a fair few football matches where I meet up with friends, that sort of thing could take a hammering and combined with the fact the kids won't be at home anymore, it could leave me days on end without really seeing anyone.
SeeFive - if my round goes that far, I'll be having words with my boss
Red Sir - between the two jobs, I'd estimate I'd be doing around 50 hours driving a week, so I should be okay there, I think.
In no particular order....(and because I can't do multi-quoting
)Mike74 - I don't take offence as you are quite correct about parents needing the kids in order to stay afloat. I worked full time hours from the age of 16 (1984) until 2012, either as PAYE or self-employed. My two lads came to live with me literally overnight (it's a long story) so I had to give up full time work to look after them. That obviously caused issues financially but yes, the government do look after you if you are careful with your money, you can manage ok.
Jiffle - thanks mate. I'm not practical in any way, I can't even wire a plug or change a wheel. It would probably have to be something web-related if I continue down the same road.
Bristol Racer - thanks for taking the time out to write such an informative post (I'm in Bristol too). The hours, they say, are 11pm till 7.00am and six nights a week and although some of the working conditions are a legacy from the old days, it has improved somewhat. There is little money collection these days and the 7.00am is pretty accurate as they have a guarantee to their customers to deliver by 7.00am. It is PDA-driven and it's a LHD diesel flat bed float..... none of that worries me really. The only bit I'm concerned about, and it's a big issue, is the anti-social bit. Not only will you not see anyone as milkmen these days are more of a nights job than an early morning one, but I'll be sleeping when everyone else is active. I'd planned to sleep either between 10am and 5pm or 3pm to 10pm. I manage nowadays on 5-6 hours most nights, though my weight issue also seems to interrupt my sleep. I'm quite a sociable, friendly chap and go to a fair few football matches where I meet up with friends, that sort of thing could take a hammering and combined with the fact the kids won't be at home anymore, it could leave me days on end without really seeing anyone.
SeeFive - if my round goes that far, I'll be having words with my boss
Red Sir - between the two jobs, I'd estimate I'd be doing around 50 hours driving a week, so I should be okay there, I think.
Edited by GloverMart on Monday 20th May 07:23
My dad was a milkman for 40 years.
In those days he delivered to about a 1000 houses a day 7 days a week.
God knows how he did it. I couldn't.
It may be different now but think if the deliveries in the freezing driving sleet and snow, fingers chapped so bad you can't feel them and can't wear proper gloves, face and lips bloodied and peeling.
If you can survive that, then seriously check out the salary is guaranteed and not based on sales, a lot of milkmen have gone to the wall in the last few years as their business hadn't been big enough to be sustainable.
Other than that, good luck, must be hard to have to go back out into the working world and "lose" your kids
In those days he delivered to about a 1000 houses a day 7 days a week.
God knows how he did it. I couldn't.
It may be different now but think if the deliveries in the freezing driving sleet and snow, fingers chapped so bad you can't feel them and can't wear proper gloves, face and lips bloodied and peeling.
If you can survive that, then seriously check out the salary is guaranteed and not based on sales, a lot of milkmen have gone to the wall in the last few years as their business hadn't been big enough to be sustainable.
Other than that, good luck, must be hard to have to go back out into the working world and "lose" your kids
Rider007 said:
What does a football analyst do?
There's one at every Premier and Football League game, plus the Scottish leagues too. They watch the game and report throw-ins, free kicks, yellow and red cards, corners, subs, goals, attempts etc down a phone line to another analyst that keeps track. At the end of the game, both analysts cross-check their stats and if it's okay, it will appear on BBC Sport website after the game (it generates the live text and also the stats page on there too!). GloverMart said:
Rider007 said:
What does a football analyst do?
There's one at every Premier and Football League game, plus the Scottish leagues too. They watch the game and report throw-ins, free kicks, yellow and red cards, corners, subs, goals, attempts etc down a phone line to another analyst that keeps track. At the end of the game, both analysts cross-check their stats and if it's okay, it will appear on BBC Sport website after the game (it generates the live text and also the stats page on there too!). Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff