Is it any wonder recruitment agencies get slated on here
Discussion
R.-koyhb said:
<snip>
I cannot be the only one who has experienced this .
You're not, there are several threads on here with the same complaints.I cannot be the only one who has experienced this .
But never fear, "Bad Company" will be along shortly to tell you how wonderfully honest agencies are (just because apparently the one he used to own was).
I think it depends on the sort of agency, I’ve dealt with some fantastic agents who have placed me in excellent contracts for great companies and were a pleasure to deal with.
I also get bombarded with calls from one particular agency who seem to think that just because I’m on CV library they can harass me in to going on massively unsuitable contracts which I would just leave after a week anyway and they’d have to go to the effort of replacing me.
There’s a difference between a proper recruiter and a jumped up 20 year old in a cheap suit with little experience given the job of hounding people several times a day in the hope it’ll lead to commission.
I also get bombarded with calls from one particular agency who seem to think that just because I’m on CV library they can harass me in to going on massively unsuitable contracts which I would just leave after a week anyway and they’d have to go to the effort of replacing me.
There’s a difference between a proper recruiter and a jumped up 20 year old in a cheap suit with little experience given the job of hounding people several times a day in the hope it’ll lead to commission.
Agencies don't get paid by candidates and there are lots of suitable good quality applicants for most roles, this goes some way to explain why they treat candidates the way they do.
Rightly or wrongly they are the gatekeepers to most good opportunities, I learnt to treat them well, and accept that they are doing me a 'favour' (selecting me for a short list etc) and not the other way around.
As far as senior managers making you wait 45 minutes, I hope this was accompanied by an apology.
Rightly or wrongly they are the gatekeepers to most good opportunities, I learnt to treat them well, and accept that they are doing me a 'favour' (selecting me for a short list etc) and not the other way around.
As far as senior managers making you wait 45 minutes, I hope this was accompanied by an apology.
TonyRPH said:
R.-koyhb said:
<snip>
I cannot be the only one who has experienced this .
You're not, there are several threads on here with the same complaints.I cannot be the only one who has experienced this .
But never fear, "Bad Company" will be along shortly to tell you how wonderfully honest agencies are (just because apparently the one he used to own was).
I’d just add that agencies are usually only paid on successful placements so if they’re that bad they’d go out of business.
As someone else said the op seems to have an ‘attitude’ which may well be the problem.
R.-koyhb said:
Never in 40 years have I ever been successful sourcing a job via an agency . There have been times in my working career where I have needed to change jobs and getting the jobs I finally ended up in were either through contacts or my own perseverance knocking on doors .
How do these people earn a living when they advertise jobs which don't exist , jobs they have just hi jacked from the employers web site ,jobs which about eight other agencies are also having a crack at ,and jobs which have already been filled some weeks ago .
They feed you with so much BS and heaven help you if you should question them or disagree with them . They know best . They have a blind eye as far as location and distance they expect you to travel ,just because it looks close on the map ,try doing this journey at7.30 on a Monday morning in November ! Are the Motor trade agencies the worse offenders or Finance or ,Estate agency ? These agents expect you to go on wild goose chases using up your petrol and time and then never have the curtesy of letting you know why you were not chosen . A lot of the time they send you to interviews when the company is just going through the motions and ends up hiring from within .
Once Easter is over candidates are swamped by agency staff calling and offering the scraps from prior to Easter . This happens year in year out then nothing ,it all goes dead again . Same after Christmas/new year break .
They don't read and digest your CV or covering letter telling them why you left your last job , and that you have a full clean driving licence . And then ask you what you are really looking for when you have clearly applied for a particular role . I'm sick of hearing that I'm over qualified . Let me make that decision , it' must be a bonus to the firm that I come with more qualifications than required and at a certain age I might just not want that high pressure job I am qualified for
Many years ago I had left a very good job for personal reasons , an agency I contacted wanted to meet me and at their offices started to try to train me and tell me what was what , when I reminded the owner of the agency of the position I held he turned round and said BUT YOURE NOT NOW ARE YOU ! It was best I just got up and walked out .
And whilst I'm ranting ,what about large privately owned and PLC car dealer groups who constantly advertise roles and tell you they are filled only for said role to appear in the next week or so . Is it to keep existing staff on their toes knowing their job is constantly On the line .
Or the Line Manager or Dealer Principal who knows he has to interview you but is always so busy that you're left sitting in reception for up to 45 minutes ! You're not waiting to see Lord Sugar or Branson for gods sake . So many people full of their own importance . They then spend the interview telling you how successful they have made their department .
It all stinks .
I cannot be the only one who has experienced this .
Thought I quote that so it’s not deleted. How do these people earn a living when they advertise jobs which don't exist , jobs they have just hi jacked from the employers web site ,jobs which about eight other agencies are also having a crack at ,and jobs which have already been filled some weeks ago .
They feed you with so much BS and heaven help you if you should question them or disagree with them . They know best . They have a blind eye as far as location and distance they expect you to travel ,just because it looks close on the map ,try doing this journey at7.30 on a Monday morning in November ! Are the Motor trade agencies the worse offenders or Finance or ,Estate agency ? These agents expect you to go on wild goose chases using up your petrol and time and then never have the curtesy of letting you know why you were not chosen . A lot of the time they send you to interviews when the company is just going through the motions and ends up hiring from within .
Once Easter is over candidates are swamped by agency staff calling and offering the scraps from prior to Easter . This happens year in year out then nothing ,it all goes dead again . Same after Christmas/new year break .
They don't read and digest your CV or covering letter telling them why you left your last job , and that you have a full clean driving licence . And then ask you what you are really looking for when you have clearly applied for a particular role . I'm sick of hearing that I'm over qualified . Let me make that decision , it' must be a bonus to the firm that I come with more qualifications than required and at a certain age I might just not want that high pressure job I am qualified for
Many years ago I had left a very good job for personal reasons , an agency I contacted wanted to meet me and at their offices started to try to train me and tell me what was what , when I reminded the owner of the agency of the position I held he turned round and said BUT YOURE NOT NOW ARE YOU ! It was best I just got up and walked out .
And whilst I'm ranting ,what about large privately owned and PLC car dealer groups who constantly advertise roles and tell you they are filled only for said role to appear in the next week or so . Is it to keep existing staff on their toes knowing their job is constantly On the line .
Or the Line Manager or Dealer Principal who knows he has to interview you but is always so busy that you're left sitting in reception for up to 45 minutes ! You're not waiting to see Lord Sugar or Branson for gods sake . So many people full of their own importance . They then spend the interview telling you how successful they have made their department .
It all stinks .
I cannot be the only one who has experienced this .
Does the op sound like someone you’d want to employ?
Gargamel said:
The Recruitment sector is about GBP 7bn annually, maybe more these days.
Like every industry there are good and bad people in it.
Just look at complaints about Car Dealers...
The Car Dealers is probably a good comparison. When you've dealt with a really dodgy one you won't bother going back but unfortunately there are plenty of other unsuspecting jobhunters out there. The theory that "bad ones would go out of business" clearly doesn't apply because there are plenty of corrupt/criminal car dealers out there. As a worst case scenario once they get a sufficiently bad reputation they will close down and open up again under a different name.Like every industry there are good and bad people in it.
Just look at complaints about Car Dealers...
Wrt the £7bn turnover that doesnt necessarily mean it's a decent honest trustworthy industry. Agencies charge something like 35% or upwards of annual salary for each permanent appointment and they will also try to charge something like 30% commission on temps so it's not hard to see why the industry is worth so much.
We've had countless threads about RAs before on PH so it's no point flogging a dead horse. There are indeed some good ones but there are a lot of bad ones and they give the industry a bad name, especially when the supposedly "good ones" defend dodgy behaviour as "normal business practice".
I sent a link to this thread to my O/H (who has recently finally found a job after 7 months of searching).
Her reaction was "it echoes my own experience".
She also felt that the OP was simply venting a bit of frustration, and doesn't think the OP has an attitude at all.
As I've stated previously in the many threads like this on PH - there's overwhelming anecdotal evidence to suggest there are issues with some recruiters in the industry.
I feel that it's become an intensely competitive industry, regardless of which profession they are recruiting for.
It's a 'dog eat dog' world out there and I suspect it is this that has made the industry what is is now.
Going back 10 - 15 years, I can remember seeing adverts boasting huge earnings by becoming a recruiter and so on.
IT went the same way a few years back - huge earnings were offered which drew all manner of folk into the IT arena - many who had no previous exposure to the industry at all, but yet 'retrained' to work in IT with the lure of big earnings.
Some were successful at it, so not so much so. I know - I've had the misfortune to work alongside some of the less knowledgeable types over the past few years.
Point being - the same thing happened in recruitment. You get the good ones, and the bad ones.
Her reaction was "it echoes my own experience".
She also felt that the OP was simply venting a bit of frustration, and doesn't think the OP has an attitude at all.
As I've stated previously in the many threads like this on PH - there's overwhelming anecdotal evidence to suggest there are issues with some recruiters in the industry.
I feel that it's become an intensely competitive industry, regardless of which profession they are recruiting for.
It's a 'dog eat dog' world out there and I suspect it is this that has made the industry what is is now.
Going back 10 - 15 years, I can remember seeing adverts boasting huge earnings by becoming a recruiter and so on.
IT went the same way a few years back - huge earnings were offered which drew all manner of folk into the IT arena - many who had no previous exposure to the industry at all, but yet 'retrained' to work in IT with the lure of big earnings.
Some were successful at it, so not so much so. I know - I've had the misfortune to work alongside some of the less knowledgeable types over the past few years.
Point being - the same thing happened in recruitment. You get the good ones, and the bad ones.
TonyRPH said:
I sent a link to this thread to my O/H (who has recently finally found a job after 7 months of searching).
Her reaction was "it echoes my own experience".
She also felt that the OP was simply venting a bit of frustration, and doesn't think the OP has an attitude at all.
As I've stated previously in the many threads like this on PH - there's overwhelming anecdotal evidence to suggest there are issues with some recruiters in the industry.
I feel that it's become an intensely competitive industry, regardless of which profession they are recruiting for.
It's a 'dog eat dog' world out there and I suspect it is this that has made the industry what is is now.
Going back 10 - 15 years, I can remember seeing adverts boasting huge earnings by becoming a recruiter and so on.
IT went the same way a few years back - huge earnings were offered which drew all manner of folk into the IT arena - many who had no previous exposure to the industry at all, but yet 'retrained' to work in IT with the lure of big earnings.
Some were successful at it, so not so much so. I know - I've had the misfortune to work alongside some of the less knowledgeable types over the past few years.
Point being - the same thing happened in recruitment. You get the good ones, and the bad ones.
There’s issues with unscrupulous people in every industry.Her reaction was "it echoes my own experience".
She also felt that the OP was simply venting a bit of frustration, and doesn't think the OP has an attitude at all.
As I've stated previously in the many threads like this on PH - there's overwhelming anecdotal evidence to suggest there are issues with some recruiters in the industry.
I feel that it's become an intensely competitive industry, regardless of which profession they are recruiting for.
It's a 'dog eat dog' world out there and I suspect it is this that has made the industry what is is now.
Going back 10 - 15 years, I can remember seeing adverts boasting huge earnings by becoming a recruiter and so on.
IT went the same way a few years back - huge earnings were offered which drew all manner of folk into the IT arena - many who had no previous exposure to the industry at all, but yet 'retrained' to work in IT with the lure of big earnings.
Some were successful at it, so not so much so. I know - I've had the misfortune to work alongside some of the less knowledgeable types over the past few years.
Point being - the same thing happened in recruitment. You get the good ones, and the bad ones.
Interesting point about IT. When there were huge earnings in that there were a lot of IT agency start ups. We were plagued by headhunters trying to poach our recruiters. They even tried to headhunt me, the owner of the firm. Most of those start ups didn’t last.
In my experience, probably more than any of you as an employee, agencies are a necessary evil.
the bad things they do:
Put you into places unsuitable for you because they do not understand the jobs or industry they are recruiting for, high street agencies are worst for this.
Waste your time putting you forward for jobs you have no chance of getting.
NEVER communicate when you are unsuccessful
Finally, waste your time with office juniors ringing you up to get your details with no job included. Cold calling.
They are spin doctors, always telling you crap you don't need to hear, water off a ducks back now.
Simply being inept, I have lost jobs because of woeful admin from an agency before with regard to referencing and other things
Good things
Some of them are very resourceful and get to know you, placing you in the best places and knowing your skills, rare but can happen.
You can deal with them instead of an employer, which is a bonus when it comes to negotiation.
If you get to know a few guys, it can often be a way in ahead of others.
They will be honest about wages, something a lot of employers are hopeless with, though some agencies like flower up wages, til you get there and find out you could only get that salary after 5 years..
So a real double edge.
I find them most a pain in the arse, but just think of them as salesmen, and you will get used to them, that is all they are, basically legalised people traffickers.
the bad things they do:
Put you into places unsuitable for you because they do not understand the jobs or industry they are recruiting for, high street agencies are worst for this.
Waste your time putting you forward for jobs you have no chance of getting.
NEVER communicate when you are unsuccessful
Finally, waste your time with office juniors ringing you up to get your details with no job included. Cold calling.
They are spin doctors, always telling you crap you don't need to hear, water off a ducks back now.
Simply being inept, I have lost jobs because of woeful admin from an agency before with regard to referencing and other things
Good things
Some of them are very resourceful and get to know you, placing you in the best places and knowing your skills, rare but can happen.
You can deal with them instead of an employer, which is a bonus when it comes to negotiation.
If you get to know a few guys, it can often be a way in ahead of others.
They will be honest about wages, something a lot of employers are hopeless with, though some agencies like flower up wages, til you get there and find out you could only get that salary after 5 years..
So a real double edge.
I find them most a pain in the arse, but just think of them as salesmen, and you will get used to them, that is all they are, basically legalised people traffickers.
I worked as one for ten years and yes I was an honest one. I built a reputation and didn't need to job hop. Not even once.
However I worked with some shady idiots. I remember once one was telling me his girlfriend, an estate agent was in the business of undervalueing old dears property to sell on for a gain. I didn't have enough proof to shop her/him. He thought it was fair game.
Another was a habitual drink driver. I shopped him.
Others routinely lied 'to get that sale'. It always ends up biting them leading to client kicking off leading to the sack.
The only comparable industry that I can think of is car sales.
Edit- I remember a new girl starting. On a decent salary as she had big Billings from her previous company etc. She said to me infront of everyone 'im going to show everyone that you are over the hill and I'm number one'.
I remember thinking and saying to a colleague why the need to say such crap?!
She was gone in three months. Left a mess and her ability on the job was far from what her previous promises were..
I didn't laugh, I was too busy head down earning money. We had loads like her
Utterly jackanory who bounced from company to company.
However I worked with some shady idiots. I remember once one was telling me his girlfriend, an estate agent was in the business of undervalueing old dears property to sell on for a gain. I didn't have enough proof to shop her/him. He thought it was fair game.
Another was a habitual drink driver. I shopped him.
Others routinely lied 'to get that sale'. It always ends up biting them leading to client kicking off leading to the sack.
The only comparable industry that I can think of is car sales.
Edit- I remember a new girl starting. On a decent salary as she had big Billings from her previous company etc. She said to me infront of everyone 'im going to show everyone that you are over the hill and I'm number one'.
I remember thinking and saying to a colleague why the need to say such crap?!
She was gone in three months. Left a mess and her ability on the job was far from what her previous promises were..
I didn't laugh, I was too busy head down earning money. We had loads like her
Utterly jackanory who bounced from company to company.
Edited by Sa Calobra on Sunday 26th May 18:03
Edited by Sa Calobra on Sunday 26th May 18:03
TonyRPH said:
I sent a link to this thread to my O/H (who has recently finally found a job after 7 months of searching).
Her reaction was "it echoes my own experience".
She also felt that the OP was simply venting a bit of frustration, and doesn't think the OP has an attitude at all.
As I've stated previously in the many threads like this on PH - there's overwhelming anecdotal evidence to suggest there are issues with some recruiters in the industry.
I feel that it's become an intensely competitive industry, regardless of which profession they are recruiting for.
It's a 'dog eat dog' world out there and I suspect it is this that has made the industry what is is now.
Going back 10 - 15 years, I can remember seeing adverts boasting huge earnings by becoming a recruiter and so on.
IT went the same way a few years back - huge earnings were offered which drew all manner of folk into the IT arena - many who had no previous exposure to the industry at all, but yet 'retrained' to work in IT with the lure of big earnings.
Some were successful at it, so not so much so. I know - I've had the misfortune to work alongside some of the less knowledgeable types over the past few years.
Point being - the same thing happened in recruitment. You get the good ones, and the bad ones.
agreed.......quite often when people inc myself vent about genuinely bad and frustrating experiences some PHers seem to regularly choose to try and trigger the posters by suggesting its their "attitude". why people cant accept the experiences of others I dont know and says more about them than those opening up about those said experiences. If they had bad attitudes I doubt they would bother posting in the first place if you look at it logically.Her reaction was "it echoes my own experience".
She also felt that the OP was simply venting a bit of frustration, and doesn't think the OP has an attitude at all.
As I've stated previously in the many threads like this on PH - there's overwhelming anecdotal evidence to suggest there are issues with some recruiters in the industry.
I feel that it's become an intensely competitive industry, regardless of which profession they are recruiting for.
It's a 'dog eat dog' world out there and I suspect it is this that has made the industry what is is now.
Going back 10 - 15 years, I can remember seeing adverts boasting huge earnings by becoming a recruiter and so on.
IT went the same way a few years back - huge earnings were offered which drew all manner of folk into the IT arena - many who had no previous exposure to the industry at all, but yet 'retrained' to work in IT with the lure of big earnings.
Some were successful at it, so not so much so. I know - I've had the misfortune to work alongside some of the less knowledgeable types over the past few years.
Point being - the same thing happened in recruitment. You get the good ones, and the bad ones.
Vast majority of recruiters, I deal with are decent, and have the ability to open doors that I have no chance opening on my own, and smooth the recruitment process, often making the final interview a doddle.
I still come across those that use some crappy tactics such as advertising none existent jobs to go on a CV fishing expedition, that they can hawk, I had one today that insisted I give them 4 referees before they would submit my application, I advised them that was a crappy way to get leads, and would annoy my referees, if they wanted a lead they should just ask for one and I would happily provide one. They tried to justify it but submitted my application without referees.
I still come across those that use some crappy tactics such as advertising none existent jobs to go on a CV fishing expedition, that they can hawk, I had one today that insisted I give them 4 referees before they would submit my application, I advised them that was a crappy way to get leads, and would annoy my referees, if they wanted a lead they should just ask for one and I would happily provide one. They tried to justify it but submitted my application without referees.
Countdown said:
Agencies charge something like 35% or upwards of annual salary for each permanent appointment and they will also try to charge something like 30% commission on temps so it's not hard to see why the industry is worth so much.
You clearly have no idea about what Recruitment Agencies charge. I suspect the UK average perm fee is closer to 15% across the industry and average contractor margin closer to 10%. Even so, 2017/18 the UK recruitment industry was worth £35.7 billion.In any industry there are good and bad people and practices. All agents, regardless of their tactics work hard for their commission. It's just a shame the good ones can't charge a premium.
Edited by Hoolio on Thursday 30th May 11:56
Hoolio said:
Countdown said:
Agencies charge something like 35% or upwards of annual salary for each permanent appointment and they will also try to charge something like 30% commission on temps so it's not hard to see why the industry is worth so much.
You clearly have no idea about what Recruitment Agencies charge. I suspect the UK average perm fee is closer to 15% across the industry and average contractor margin closer to 10%. Even so, 2017/18 the UK recruitment industry was worth £35.7 billion.In any industry there are good and bad people and practices. All agents, regardless of their tactics work hard for their commission. It's just a shame the good ones can't charge a premium.
Search consultants often charge around 30-35%. They're the guys who headhunt for very senior and hard to fill jobs. Normal recruitment is around 15 - 20%.
Edited by Hoolio on Thursday 30th May 11:56
Recruitment by agencies can be 4% nevermind 20% and this can be professional roles like procurement.
If you want to win a place on the PSL you will be completing against those willing to smash their percentage to win. They'll hope on soaking up and volume from the account.
I've heard of agencies that 'charge' a consultant say £7000 a month for the 'cost of desk' then they'll get a small percentage of the percentage of the fee. Some agencies only pay that commission when that particular fee has been paid by the client. That can take months.
They'll look for any excuse to get rid of a consultant as well. It's a sort of weird 'im a small person who thinks they are important and better than you even though you bill regularly'.
That's another thing most recruitment consultants that I've met and known have a classic narcissistic personality disorder.
If you want to win a place on the PSL you will be completing against those willing to smash their percentage to win. They'll hope on soaking up and volume from the account.
I've heard of agencies that 'charge' a consultant say £7000 a month for the 'cost of desk' then they'll get a small percentage of the percentage of the fee. Some agencies only pay that commission when that particular fee has been paid by the client. That can take months.
They'll look for any excuse to get rid of a consultant as well. It's a sort of weird 'im a small person who thinks they are important and better than you even though you bill regularly'.
That's another thing most recruitment consultants that I've met and known have a classic narcissistic personality disorder.
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