Grievance over pay. What's the counter argument?
Discussion
Passed an internal promotion board middle of last year but whilst meeting the standard, another person scored higher so I was put on a reserve list in case anything came up.
Later offered a job off from being on the reserve list and accepted. The salary is lower than expected but upon inquiring in told the pay band for this job hasn't changed so there's no negotiating.
A week after that I find out the pay band had changed and if I had applied for the job via it being advertised on a new advert internally rather than being selected off the reserve list, the pay would have been about 15% higher. This wasn't mentioned at the time and is not in any policy.
My goal is to be given the higher pay because if I had been given the choice I would have applied successfully to a new advert.
Counter argument 1 - might not have been successful.
Answer - I wasn't given the chance, oh and I would have been.
Counter argument 2 - you originally applied for the job at lower pay, why should you get more?
Answer - The market changed in those 9 months, as reflected by your own changing of the salary, oh and I was lied to about the pay banding
What does the might of PH say? Any more counter arguments or supporting arguments for my position?
Later offered a job off from being on the reserve list and accepted. The salary is lower than expected but upon inquiring in told the pay band for this job hasn't changed so there's no negotiating.
A week after that I find out the pay band had changed and if I had applied for the job via it being advertised on a new advert internally rather than being selected off the reserve list, the pay would have been about 15% higher. This wasn't mentioned at the time and is not in any policy.
My goal is to be given the higher pay because if I had been given the choice I would have applied successfully to a new advert.
Counter argument 1 - might not have been successful.
Answer - I wasn't given the chance, oh and I would have been.
Counter argument 2 - you originally applied for the job at lower pay, why should you get more?
Answer - The market changed in those 9 months, as reflected by your own changing of the salary, oh and I was lied to about the pay banding
What does the might of PH say? Any more counter arguments or supporting arguments for my position?
Flooble said:
Public or private sector?
PublicTrouble is I am interested in and like the work. This has taken a shine off it but unless their response to this is 'you know what, yes we are dicks but we are OK with that' it probably wouldn't cause me to quit and face the awful hardship of ~30k more pay and a fighting chance of actually achieving stuff without 27 layers of bs on the outside.
I'm currently doing the job, I suppose I could try and go back to the old and then reapply when they are forced to advertise it.. Interesting idea.
It basically boils down to 2 things;
1. How well you get on with your senior manager/how much you are valued
2. How easy it would be to replace you.
If you're in the Public Sector then (assuming you have transferable skills and ambition) I would suggest getting the experience and then leaving. Once you get to a certain level there are more interesting and enjoyable ways of earning more money.,
1. How well you get on with your senior manager/how much you are valued
2. How easy it would be to replace you.
If you're in the Public Sector then (assuming you have transferable skills and ambition) I would suggest getting the experience and then leaving. Once you get to a certain level there are more interesting and enjoyable ways of earning more money.,
Public Sector pretty much limits you in respect of walking out - while there are possibly comparable jobs, it's not going to be the same.
But it does at least give you a bit more scope for them to have to follow the rules, be transparent and not just screw you over because they feel like it. However, I've seen people on different grades paid wildly different amounts thanks to "market adjustments" and the like so it's not always an open and shut case.
However, have you considered transferring to another department? That can often be the way to get a boost.
But it does at least give you a bit more scope for them to have to follow the rules, be transparent and not just screw you over because they feel like it. However, I've seen people on different grades paid wildly different amounts thanks to "market adjustments" and the like so it's not always an open and shut case.
However, have you considered transferring to another department? That can often be the way to get a boost.
shouldbworking said:
Plenty of options available to me. I'm not the only ever been in the public sector type so I'm not worried about working outside, and my skills are current.
Really I'm just trying to anticipate awful arguments that'll be used against me during this process
Just use the argument that you were lied to in the process. You were told that the pay band had not changed, when in fact it had. Really I'm just trying to anticipate awful arguments that'll be used against me during this process
Ask why weren’t they transparent with you at the time - keep asking.
If they employ ANY OTHER person now in that role it will cost them 15% more. So make an ultimatum if it matters to you enough to be prepared to carry it out
Genuine question, what makes you 100% certain that had you applied to the new posting you would have got it ? You could quite easily have been 'pipped at the post' by a better candidate again, you had the benefit of them short circuiting the process, thats cost you slightly fiscally but guaranteed you the new role, otherwise you are back in competition for the role.
There is probably someone on a forum somewhere complaining that they didn't get a shot at promotion because they gave the job to the guy that came 2nd last time.
There is probably someone on a forum somewhere complaining that they didn't get a shot at promotion because they gave the job to the guy that came 2nd last time.
dibblecorse said:
Genuine question, what makes you 100% certain that had you applied to the new posting you would have got it ? You could quite easily have been 'pipped at the post' by a better candidate again, you had the benefit of them short circuiting the process, thats cost you slightly fiscally but guaranteed you the new role, otherwise you are back in competition for the role.
There is probably someone on a forum somewhere complaining that they didn't get a shot at promotion because they gave the job to the guy that came 2nd last time.
Not to get too Liam Neeson with 'a very particular set of skills' but it is that - role requires a decent knowledge of some specialist skills which are in short supply in the market, and thus command a price that the civil service won't pay. The combination of knowledge and experience of these skills and being willing to compromise on salary to the degree I am (not kidding - I could add another £30k in the private sector) means very few applicants externally. Internally it's a sufficiently specialist field that I would know any competition, and there isn't anyone.There is probably someone on a forum somewhere complaining that they didn't get a shot at promotion because they gave the job to the guy that came 2nd last time.
Will HR buy that during the grievance? not sure. The evidence of being unable to recruit in related roles due to too low salaries should help..
shouldbworking said:
dibblecorse said:
Genuine question, what makes you 100% certain that had you applied to the new posting you would have got it ? You could quite easily have been 'pipped at the post' by a better candidate again, you had the benefit of them short circuiting the process, thats cost you slightly fiscally but guaranteed you the new role, otherwise you are back in competition for the role.
There is probably someone on a forum somewhere complaining that they didn't get a shot at promotion because they gave the job to the guy that came 2nd last time.
Not to get too Liam Neeson with 'a very particular set of skills' but it is that - role requires a decent knowledge of some specialist skills which are in short supply in the market, and thus command a price that the civil service won't pay. The combination of knowledge and experience of these skills and being willing to compromise on salary to the degree I am (not kidding - I could add another £30k in the private sector) means very few applicants externally. Internally it's a sufficiently specialist field that I would know any competition, and there isn't anyone.There is probably someone on a forum somewhere complaining that they didn't get a shot at promotion because they gave the job to the guy that came 2nd last time.
Will HR buy that during the grievance? not sure. The evidence of being unable to recruit in related roles due to too low salaries should help..
shouldbworking said:
Not to get too Liam Neeson with 'a very particular set of skills' but it is that - role requires a decent knowledge of some specialist skills which are in short supply in the market, and thus command a price that the civil service won't pay. The combination of knowledge and experience of these skills and being willing to compromise on salary to the degree I am (not kidding - I could add another £30k in the private sector) means very few applicants externally. Internally it's a sufficiently specialist field that I would know any competition, and there isn't anyone.
Will HR buy that during the grievance? not sure. The evidence of being unable to recruit in related roles due to too low salaries should help..
If you’re Public Sector has your organisation not gone through Job Evaluation? Will HR buy that during the grievance? not sure. The evidence of being unable to recruit in related roles due to too low salaries should help..
MitchT said:
kiethton said:
Do the job for 3 months to get it on your CV and move elsewhere.
An employer that does this is not worth working for.
This.An employer that does this is not worth working for.
Totally agreed on the "employer who does this isn't worth working for" bit though.
Well, after a supremely slow process employer has said no, we followed policy. I explained that I'd searched for policy on this and found nothing, could they show me the policy. Their answer "well it's not a written policy", but it's a well known and accepted practice (except noone knows about it and it's not documented so how can anyone know it exists to accept it)
Absolute farce.
Absolute farce.
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