Engineering - Finding new contracts
Discussion
Having always worked as staff in the past, for the last 5 years I've been contracting, the latter two as a Ltd. Company. However I'm stagnating in my current role and probably should move on, as no contract rate rises are likely and I would like to avoid being caught by the IR35 regs. I work as a Materials Engineer / Metallurgist and quite like the flexibility of being a contractor, and would quite like to continue.
Question is, where are the best sites to find new contracts elsewhere? This could be in the UK or overseas as I'm quite open to working abroad.
I've occasionally been contacted by recruitment people but they always seem to be hawking poorly-paid jobs, or jobs which really seem to require 3 or more people to fill them satisfactorily.
Just wondering if other contractors on here have any tips for finding decent contracts?
Cheers,
Ben
Question is, where are the best sites to find new contracts elsewhere? This could be in the UK or overseas as I'm quite open to working abroad.
I've occasionally been contacted by recruitment people but they always seem to be hawking poorly-paid jobs, or jobs which really seem to require 3 or more people to fill them satisfactorily.
Just wondering if other contractors on here have any tips for finding decent contracts?
Cheers,
Ben
Put your CV on as many jobsites as you can, usually the top 4, cover most bases.
Agents will then harvest your CV from there and offer you roles. (you'll have a busy few days answering your phone, not necessarily all jobs for you but you are now on there system and they'll let you know if anything comes up that suits ur experience....ideally! However you'll also get offered some rubbish as you've already found out! Just a numbers game)
Also search those jobsites weekly for things that float your boat, if you find anything call and speak to the agent about the role rather than just applying on the jobsite.
Agents will then harvest your CV from there and offer you roles. (you'll have a busy few days answering your phone, not necessarily all jobs for you but you are now on there system and they'll let you know if anything comes up that suits ur experience....ideally! However you'll also get offered some rubbish as you've already found out! Just a numbers game)
Also search those jobsites weekly for things that float your boat, if you find anything call and speak to the agent about the role rather than just applying on the jobsite.
Thanks for the replies.
Which are considered the top 4 job sites these days? Already on Jobsite and CV Library I think but had lots of calls from agents hawking low paid jobs from these in the recent past....
Re: oil and gas jobs, did work briefly in that sector in Aberdeen but don't really have the knowledge or experience for oil and gas roles.
Cheers,
Ben
Which are considered the top 4 job sites these days? Already on Jobsite and CV Library I think but had lots of calls from agents hawking low paid jobs from these in the recent past....
Re: oil and gas jobs, did work briefly in that sector in Aberdeen but don't really have the knowledge or experience for oil and gas roles.
Cheers,
Ben
For IT related stuff jobserve is pretty good, not sure about engineering.
Linkedin can also work well, both through your own contacts but also a lot of agents pay for accounts that let them search out particular skills sets and experience so you might get contacted out of the blue.
Rullion is the only engineering agency I know of so maybe worth registering with them.
Linkedin can also work well, both through your own contacts but also a lot of agents pay for accounts that let them search out particular skills sets and experience so you might get contacted out of the blue.
Rullion is the only engineering agency I know of so maybe worth registering with them.
https://www.justengineers.net/
https://www.totaljobs.com
https://www.jobsite.co.uk/
Then it’s the usual agencies….
https://www.matchtech.com/
https://www.scantec.co.uk/
https://www.orionelectrotech.com/
http://www.gentec-recruitment.co.uk/
http://mgarecruitment.com
https://www.jonlee.co.uk/
http://www.jamrecruitment.co.uk/
https://www.g2recruitment.com/
https://www.vividresourcing.com/
http://www.whitelabelrecruitment.co.uk/
https://www.roc-search.com/
https://bakerhicks.com/
https://www.sitecgroup.com/
https://www.huxley.com/en-gb/
https://www.progressiverecruitment.com/en-gb/
Other agencies and sites are mentioned - and there's loads more. They are just like estate agents but without the morals...
Decent contracts will not be advertised, some one somewhere who knows someone else already - who wants that contract.
Most agencies have roles on their books which they can’t fill because of the low rates offered. These roles can be open for 6 months+ so all “new faces” get offered these roles to start with, and the new user just has to ignore them.
Some of the above, no names, specialise in lousy paying contracts, obviously I’m not putting that on a public forum.
Some of the above specialise in sharp practice, again, not saying in public.
Some roles pay poor rates to you, but the actual rate for the agency is considerably more. Anyone taking more than 10% gets told where to go for me. I’ve had an agency try 35% on. They had no answer when I called them out on it. One of those is above.
I have only ever been approached by LinkedIn directly a few times, and again it’s usually roles they can’t fill because of a crap rate. Or its for staff roles which would involve a 60% cut in take home. Although 2 years ago, I was approached by someone looking for a contract engineering manager and the rate was mental (£1k/day), but I had already signed the paperwork for my current contract, and it was staying away.
I was told by a snotty recruitment guy that there are loads of people out of work in contract land just now, and we should be glad of whatever rate we could get. Quite where he got this from - I have no idea. So I asked the other 40 contract engineers in the office, if they knew any contactors out of work. As you can imagine, that’s a huge pool of labour, Just 2, one was taking an extended break of 6 weeks between 2 contacts and the other one was fitting a new kitchen and central heating, but he would be back in the game in 2 months.
Question to you OP - does being a metallurgist confuse most recruitment people? I find it’s always best to look at the persons LinkedIn profile, and consider whether they will have an idea as to what you do., some will, most won’t.
Low-ish rates is standard today for all of us, lots of things are on hold just now due to Brexit, but for me rates in south east are determined by the oil price, although I’m not oil and gas, it’s a rising tide that lifts all boats. At the moment, rates not so good, 2012-2014 was fantastic! When/if civil nuclear build kicks off, and if oil starts climbing too, reckoned to be Q1 2022, the market should a be a lot better. As you know IR35 uncertainty isn’t helping either.
https://www.totaljobs.com
https://www.jobsite.co.uk/
Then it’s the usual agencies….
https://www.matchtech.com/
https://www.scantec.co.uk/
https://www.orionelectrotech.com/
http://www.gentec-recruitment.co.uk/
http://mgarecruitment.com
https://www.jonlee.co.uk/
http://www.jamrecruitment.co.uk/
https://www.g2recruitment.com/
https://www.vividresourcing.com/
http://www.whitelabelrecruitment.co.uk/
https://www.roc-search.com/
https://bakerhicks.com/
https://www.sitecgroup.com/
https://www.huxley.com/en-gb/
https://www.progressiverecruitment.com/en-gb/
Other agencies and sites are mentioned - and there's loads more. They are just like estate agents but without the morals...
Decent contracts will not be advertised, some one somewhere who knows someone else already - who wants that contract.
Most agencies have roles on their books which they can’t fill because of the low rates offered. These roles can be open for 6 months+ so all “new faces” get offered these roles to start with, and the new user just has to ignore them.
Some of the above, no names, specialise in lousy paying contracts, obviously I’m not putting that on a public forum.
Some of the above specialise in sharp practice, again, not saying in public.
Some roles pay poor rates to you, but the actual rate for the agency is considerably more. Anyone taking more than 10% gets told where to go for me. I’ve had an agency try 35% on. They had no answer when I called them out on it. One of those is above.
I have only ever been approached by LinkedIn directly a few times, and again it’s usually roles they can’t fill because of a crap rate. Or its for staff roles which would involve a 60% cut in take home. Although 2 years ago, I was approached by someone looking for a contract engineering manager and the rate was mental (£1k/day), but I had already signed the paperwork for my current contract, and it was staying away.
I was told by a snotty recruitment guy that there are loads of people out of work in contract land just now, and we should be glad of whatever rate we could get. Quite where he got this from - I have no idea. So I asked the other 40 contract engineers in the office, if they knew any contactors out of work. As you can imagine, that’s a huge pool of labour, Just 2, one was taking an extended break of 6 weeks between 2 contacts and the other one was fitting a new kitchen and central heating, but he would be back in the game in 2 months.
Question to you OP - does being a metallurgist confuse most recruitment people? I find it’s always best to look at the persons LinkedIn profile, and consider whether they will have an idea as to what you do., some will, most won’t.
Low-ish rates is standard today for all of us, lots of things are on hold just now due to Brexit, but for me rates in south east are determined by the oil price, although I’m not oil and gas, it’s a rising tide that lifts all boats. At the moment, rates not so good, 2012-2014 was fantastic! When/if civil nuclear build kicks off, and if oil starts climbing too, reckoned to be Q1 2022, the market should a be a lot better. As you know IR35 uncertainty isn’t helping either.
bucksmanuk said:
https://www.justengineers.net/
Loads of useful info...
Thanks for the helpful info! Will need to revamp my CV and get it out there, then be prepared for the hordes of agents calling offering badly-paid contracts!Loads of useful info...
How do you find out the percentage the agency are taking? Contact the final client?
Your remarks on the behaviour of some of the agencies you listed has put me off trying those TBH. Is there any way you could perhaps indicate the ones you found to be dodgy?
Not sure if being a metallurgist confuses all of them but calling myself a 'Materials Engineer' doesn't seem to help. Get some calls from people thinking logistics. Most of them have had an inkling I work with engineering materials.
Feels like working in the dark sometimes, not knowing which agencies are dodgy and not knowing what the market rate for my kind of work is!
I guess the rule changes next April might spell the end of my brief contracting career anyway....
Ben
mikees said:
Just looked at you in LI. I’ll point my root cause analysis guy at you but think I’m only taking perms at the moment. Have you look at jobs at Leonardo mbda LM ADS Thales etc on this web sites ?
Mike
Thanks. Might have no choice but to go back to Permanent next April!Mike
Not been looking at the latest jobs as I think I'll plan to move next Spring, but thanks for the tips.
Ben
How to find out what the agency are taking?
Ask the client – although by this time its usually too late, although I have concerns about being asked what I’m being paid from the agency when in the interview. Some want to know because they are plain nosy, and some want to know because they assume the agency is being greedy and only sending them the cheaper people but wanting the better people rate. If that makes sense. Some agents are on commission, and some get more commission dependent upon what they can screw the client for and the difference of what they pay you. So, it’s very much in their interest to talk you “down” and the client “up”.
The worst example I heard of was a Java script guy who was on £28/hr and the agency was charging £74/hr. If they work on a %, most will tell you that. If you ask around other contractors, then most agencies are on 10%-ish. If they have a number of people on site, some agencies where I am now - have over 100 contractors on site, so they could be running as low as 4 to 5%. It’s a tough call.
15-20% of the agencies are absolutely fine, if they have 10-15 years of engineering behind them, then it always seems to be much easier. They know there is a difference between the work of a CAD designer, an engineer, and a chartered engineer. They also know how one industry area can link heavily with another industry area. They will know that there are similarities between e.g. nuclear and oil and gas. Someone with 2 years as a customer services assistant at Debenhams and now 3 months on recruitment probably won’t know that. They are just data mining for buzz words. The better agents - you can just tell by the questions they ask within minutes of talking to them.
You have to deal with them though, its like carefully lowering your hand into a fish tank of piranhas.
PM me for which are the more hopeless/sharper ones….
Ask the client – although by this time its usually too late, although I have concerns about being asked what I’m being paid from the agency when in the interview. Some want to know because they are plain nosy, and some want to know because they assume the agency is being greedy and only sending them the cheaper people but wanting the better people rate. If that makes sense. Some agents are on commission, and some get more commission dependent upon what they can screw the client for and the difference of what they pay you. So, it’s very much in their interest to talk you “down” and the client “up”.
The worst example I heard of was a Java script guy who was on £28/hr and the agency was charging £74/hr. If they work on a %, most will tell you that. If you ask around other contractors, then most agencies are on 10%-ish. If they have a number of people on site, some agencies where I am now - have over 100 contractors on site, so they could be running as low as 4 to 5%. It’s a tough call.
15-20% of the agencies are absolutely fine, if they have 10-15 years of engineering behind them, then it always seems to be much easier. They know there is a difference between the work of a CAD designer, an engineer, and a chartered engineer. They also know how one industry area can link heavily with another industry area. They will know that there are similarities between e.g. nuclear and oil and gas. Someone with 2 years as a customer services assistant at Debenhams and now 3 months on recruitment probably won’t know that. They are just data mining for buzz words. The better agents - you can just tell by the questions they ask within minutes of talking to them.
You have to deal with them though, its like carefully lowering your hand into a fish tank of piranhas.
PM me for which are the more hopeless/sharper ones….
Cheers. As you say, I guess the risk of asking the client what the agency are taking is that they'll want to know what the contractor is getting paid.
I assume the client's procurement rules would usually prevent them dealing direct with my company, so requiring the agents and their cut?
Current contract rate is £37/h as a chartered materials engineer investigating component failures. I've only worked as staff previously but the oil and gas hourly rates in Aberdeen were sky high a few years back, and IT used to be the field to work in although I guess much of that's been outsourced. Never going to get rich as a materials engineer!
Not looking forward to taking a pay cut of around £20k p.a. if the new IR35 rules mean going back to a staff role next spring. Staff salaries don't seem to have increased for years.
Will PM you thanks.
Ben
I assume the client's procurement rules would usually prevent them dealing direct with my company, so requiring the agents and their cut?
Current contract rate is £37/h as a chartered materials engineer investigating component failures. I've only worked as staff previously but the oil and gas hourly rates in Aberdeen were sky high a few years back, and IT used to be the field to work in although I guess much of that's been outsourced. Never going to get rich as a materials engineer!
Not looking forward to taking a pay cut of around £20k p.a. if the new IR35 rules mean going back to a staff role next spring. Staff salaries don't seem to have increased for years.
Will PM you thanks.
Ben
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