Temping while "suspended" on pay
Discussion
I have a friend who suffers from a mental health condition (borderline personality disorder) which means she only sees things as black or white, and finds any kind of personal relationship difficult. Despite this, she has had the same job for the past 5 years - accounts and admin for a building company. While she is at work, she has no problems at all.
She had a falling out with her bosses over the weekend 2 weeks ago. She wanted something clarified, they didn't respond, she kept calling and messaging, ended up posting some BS on Facebook which her boss' daughter saw. Very silly of her, and she can see that now, but her issues meant she wound herself up into such a state that she went into "self-destruct" mode.
They called her into the office on the Monday, sent her home on full pay pending investigation.
A couple of days later she had an email asking her to attend an Occupational Health assessment at a local private hospital.
She duly attended 2 days ago, explained her mental health issues to the doctor, and the outcome was that the doctor sees no reason why she shouldn't return to work, and that her employer should read up on her condition and make some allowances. All quite standard for employees with physical disabilities, bit of a grey area for mental health issues.
Unfortunately her line manager and the business manager are both on holiday now until the end of the month, so nothing will get resolved any time soon.
She is going stir crazy, wants to work. She is convinced that her employer won't want her back, but will be unable to sack her because of her disability, and feels that the best solution will be to take some kind of settlement to resign.
She has started looking for another job, has had a couple of interviews. She obviously can't start another full time permanent job until the situation is sorted, as she really wants a settlement to leave.
Without work to structure her day, she will relapse into depression.
Would it be acceptable for her to take on some temping until her employer sorts it out?
TLDR:
Can someone do paid temp work while on paid suspension?
She had a falling out with her bosses over the weekend 2 weeks ago. She wanted something clarified, they didn't respond, she kept calling and messaging, ended up posting some BS on Facebook which her boss' daughter saw. Very silly of her, and she can see that now, but her issues meant she wound herself up into such a state that she went into "self-destruct" mode.
They called her into the office on the Monday, sent her home on full pay pending investigation.
A couple of days later she had an email asking her to attend an Occupational Health assessment at a local private hospital.
She duly attended 2 days ago, explained her mental health issues to the doctor, and the outcome was that the doctor sees no reason why she shouldn't return to work, and that her employer should read up on her condition and make some allowances. All quite standard for employees with physical disabilities, bit of a grey area for mental health issues.
Unfortunately her line manager and the business manager are both on holiday now until the end of the month, so nothing will get resolved any time soon.
She is going stir crazy, wants to work. She is convinced that her employer won't want her back, but will be unable to sack her because of her disability, and feels that the best solution will be to take some kind of settlement to resign.
She has started looking for another job, has had a couple of interviews. She obviously can't start another full time permanent job until the situation is sorted, as she really wants a settlement to leave.
Without work to structure her day, she will relapse into depression.
Would it be acceptable for her to take on some temping until her employer sorts it out?
TLDR:
Can someone do paid temp work while on paid suspension?
k off on leave with no one there to resolve it.I'll ask her she has a written contract.
Yes, poor show that there's nobody there who can sort it for several weeks.
I can understand why they suspended her - they know she has issues, but have shown no interest in how it affects her. It feels to me that they were hoping to just sack her for the social media post (she didn't name the business, and it was a personal dig at her line manager, not really business-related at all) but her disability means that sacking her for stuff like that will risk a tribunal, so they chose the assessment with the hope of finding grounds to sack her (nothing wrong, she's just a trouble maker). Unfortunately, BPD is very real, and almost impossible to treat without long-term therapy to learn coping strategies. Such therapy is almost impossible to get on the NHS - she has tried.
Best outcome for everyone would be a settlement and resignation. I can imagine the atmosphere in the office would be unbearable if she went back to work
edit:
Nothing in her contract about second jobs. She already has a weekend job at Tesco.
Yes, poor show that there's nobody there who can sort it for several weeks.
I can understand why they suspended her - they know she has issues, but have shown no interest in how it affects her. It feels to me that they were hoping to just sack her for the social media post (she didn't name the business, and it was a personal dig at her line manager, not really business-related at all) but her disability means that sacking her for stuff like that will risk a tribunal, so they chose the assessment with the hope of finding grounds to sack her (nothing wrong, she's just a trouble maker). Unfortunately, BPD is very real, and almost impossible to treat without long-term therapy to learn coping strategies. Such therapy is almost impossible to get on the NHS - she has tried.
Best outcome for everyone would be a settlement and resignation. I can imagine the atmosphere in the office would be unbearable if she went back to work
edit:
Nothing in her contract about second jobs. She already has a weekend job at Tesco.
Edited by clockworks on Thursday 5th September 15:53
Unfortunately money is an issue. She lives hand to mouth - compulsive shopping on payday, then selling everything at the end of the month to buy food. she buys phones, tablets, Kindles, expensive boots etc. then sells them at a loss without even opening the packaging.
A few months salary as a payoff, or some extra income in the meantime, might help. Or she might just spend it all. I've offered to take control of her bank account, and drip what's left after the bills are paid into her second account for weekly spending. Hopefully she can stick to it, and learn to budget for herself eventually.
It's like dealing with a petulant child sometimes. Quite scary in a 55 year old woman, so I'm glad she lives a long way away.
A few months salary as a payoff, or some extra income in the meantime, might help. Or she might just spend it all. I've offered to take control of her bank account, and drip what's left after the bills are paid into her second account for weekly spending. Hopefully she can stick to it, and learn to budget for herself eventually.
It's like dealing with a petulant child sometimes. Quite scary in a 55 year old woman, so I'm glad she lives a long way away.
clockworks said:
I'll ask her she has a written contract.
Yes, poor show that there's nobody there who can sort it for several weeks.
I can understand why they suspended her - they know she has issues, but have shown no interest in how it affects her. It feels to me that they were hoping to just sack her for the social media post (she didn't name the business, and it was a personal dig at her line manager, not really business-related at all) but her disability means that sacking her for stuff like that will risk a tribunal, so they chose the assessment with the hope of finding grounds to sack her (nothing wrong, she's just a trouble maker). Unfortunately, BPD is very real, and almost impossible to treat without long-term therapy to learn coping strategies. Such therapy is almost impossible to get on the NHS - she has tried.
Best outcome for everyone would be a settlement and resignation. I can imagine the atmosphere in the office would be unbearable if she went back to work
Might be worth a call to MIND, might hurt her chances of another job/ reference etc Yes, poor show that there's nobody there who can sort it for several weeks.
I can understand why they suspended her - they know she has issues, but have shown no interest in how it affects her. It feels to me that they were hoping to just sack her for the social media post (she didn't name the business, and it was a personal dig at her line manager, not really business-related at all) but her disability means that sacking her for stuff like that will risk a tribunal, so they chose the assessment with the hope of finding grounds to sack her (nothing wrong, she's just a trouble maker). Unfortunately, BPD is very real, and almost impossible to treat without long-term therapy to learn coping strategies. Such therapy is almost impossible to get on the NHS - she has tried.
Best outcome for everyone would be a settlement and resignation. I can imagine the atmosphere in the office would be unbearable if she went back to work
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/tips-f...
Funky Squirrel said:
Bad mouth the boss on company's Facebook page, get a free paid holiday now wants a settlement to leave.
I despair!
Did you not read, she has a mental disorder.I despair!
I also suffer from time to time with my own problems so can totally understand how someone could end up in a position like that.
Don't be so high and mighty when you don't understand.
Funky Squirrel said:
Bad mouth the boss on company's Facebook page, get a free paid holiday now wants a settlement to leave.
I despair!
Try reading it again, the OP said an agreed settlement and resignation would probably be the best outcome for both, and it's clear the OP friend wants to work, not sure what's to despair about?I despair!
xjay1337 said:
Did you not read, she has a mental disorder.
I also suffer from time to time with my own problems so can totally understand how someone could end up in a position like that.
Don't be so high and mighty when you don't understand.
That's my first impression until we have more details. The company has paid for a private hospital appointment for a 5year employee to probably see if they can help her. Op mentions unsubstainable spending habits so it sounds like she needs it.I also suffer from time to time with my own problems so can totally understand how someone could end up in a position like that.
Don't be so high and mighty when you don't understand.
Yes, she has arranged with Tesco to do a few more hours at the weekends - starting at 4am rather than her usual 6am. That's all they have available right now.
She desperately wants to work, as it's only when she's properly busy that she can stay stable, hence working 7 days a week.
She does need help, and she knows that. Her current employer may have her best interests at heart, I have no way of knowing. It's not how she feels about it though, and by blocking her phone number, ignoring her emails, and "unfriending" her on Facebook they have (possibly unintentionally) made it worse for her. Difficult position for them if they don't understand her condition, I get that.
She has tried repeatedly to get help via her GP, but gets fobbed off with anti-depressants.
She has presented at A&E 5 times this year when things got really bad, in an attempt to get admitted to the Mental Health Unit. Once she has calmed down, they assess her and send her home.
She has self-referred via the local NHS MH team. The only treatment on offer is a 6 week course of CBT, which is totally unsuitable for her condition.
She has recently started seeing a private therapist, which is helping a little, but the therapist knows nothing about BPD. To be fair to the therapist, until very recently, BPD was considered to be totally untreatable - that was certainly the case a few years ago when I did some training in this area. That makes it very difficult to get the right help - a mix of dialectical behavioural therapy for coping and person-centred to gain acceptance of the past trauma that brought on the condition.
Imagine a mix of bi-polar disorder, autism, OCD, PTSD, sociopathy and narcissism - that's just the start of describing BPD. Not a nice place to be.
She desperately wants to work, as it's only when she's properly busy that she can stay stable, hence working 7 days a week.
She does need help, and she knows that. Her current employer may have her best interests at heart, I have no way of knowing. It's not how she feels about it though, and by blocking her phone number, ignoring her emails, and "unfriending" her on Facebook they have (possibly unintentionally) made it worse for her. Difficult position for them if they don't understand her condition, I get that.
She has tried repeatedly to get help via her GP, but gets fobbed off with anti-depressants.
She has presented at A&E 5 times this year when things got really bad, in an attempt to get admitted to the Mental Health Unit. Once she has calmed down, they assess her and send her home.
She has self-referred via the local NHS MH team. The only treatment on offer is a 6 week course of CBT, which is totally unsuitable for her condition.
She has recently started seeing a private therapist, which is helping a little, but the therapist knows nothing about BPD. To be fair to the therapist, until very recently, BPD was considered to be totally untreatable - that was certainly the case a few years ago when I did some training in this area. That makes it very difficult to get the right help - a mix of dialectical behavioural therapy for coping and person-centred to gain acceptance of the past trauma that brought on the condition.
Imagine a mix of bi-polar disorder, autism, OCD, PTSD, sociopathy and narcissism - that's just the start of describing BPD. Not a nice place to be.
clockworks said:
Yes, she has arranged with Tesco to do a few more hours at the weekends - starting at 4am rather than her usual 6am. That's all they have available right now.
She desperately wants to work, as it's only when she's properly busy that she can stay stable, hence working 7 days a week.
She does need help, and she knows that. Her current employer may have her best interests at heart, I have no way of knowing. It's not how she feels about it though, and by blocking her phone number, ignoring her emails, and "unfriending" her on Facebook they have (possibly unintentionally) made it worse for her. Difficult position for them if they don't understand her condition, I get that.
She has tried repeatedly to get help via her GP, but gets fobbed off with anti-depressants.
She has presented at A&E 5 times this year when things got really bad, in an attempt to get admitted to the Mental Health Unit. Once she has calmed down, they assess her and send her home.
She has self-referred via the local NHS MH team. The only treatment on offer is a 6 week course of CBT, which is totally unsuitable for her condition.
She has recently started seeing a private therapist, which is helping a little, but the therapist knows nothing about BPD. To be fair to the therapist, until very recently, BPD was considered to be totally untreatable - that was certainly the case a few years ago when I did some training in this area. That makes it very difficult to get the right help - a mix of dialectical behavioural therapy for coping and person-centred to gain acceptance of the past trauma that brought on the condition.
Imagine a mix of bi-polar disorder, autism, OCD, PTSD, sociopathy and narcissism - that's just the start of describing BPD. Not a nice place to be.
I would advise it's bad to see a therapist who is not specialised in the type of mental disorders that are at play.She desperately wants to work, as it's only when she's properly busy that she can stay stable, hence working 7 days a week.
She does need help, and she knows that. Her current employer may have her best interests at heart, I have no way of knowing. It's not how she feels about it though, and by blocking her phone number, ignoring her emails, and "unfriending" her on Facebook they have (possibly unintentionally) made it worse for her. Difficult position for them if they don't understand her condition, I get that.
She has tried repeatedly to get help via her GP, but gets fobbed off with anti-depressants.
She has presented at A&E 5 times this year when things got really bad, in an attempt to get admitted to the Mental Health Unit. Once she has calmed down, they assess her and send her home.
She has self-referred via the local NHS MH team. The only treatment on offer is a 6 week course of CBT, which is totally unsuitable for her condition.
She has recently started seeing a private therapist, which is helping a little, but the therapist knows nothing about BPD. To be fair to the therapist, until very recently, BPD was considered to be totally untreatable - that was certainly the case a few years ago when I did some training in this area. That makes it very difficult to get the right help - a mix of dialectical behavioural therapy for coping and person-centred to gain acceptance of the past trauma that brought on the condition.
Imagine a mix of bi-polar disorder, autism, OCD, PTSD, sociopathy and narcissism - that's just the start of describing BPD. Not a nice place to be.
At best you are wasting your money. At worst, it is making things worse!
Not nice for everyone involved for sure.
Update on this:
After discussing the matter with the MD, she offered to go quietly with a settlement. He sent her an email offering a month's notice and a lump sum equal to 5 month's salary. He advised her in the email to consult with a solicitor when she receives the written offer, and that they would pay up to £350 +VAT towards the cost. She accepted the offer of settlement, which she was told would be completed by last Friday.
She has not received the written offer yet, nor had any form of communication from the company apart from them saying it is "with their legal team", despite her sending a couple of emails asking for an update.
She feels that they are trying to find a way of just sacking her, and don't intend to honour their offer.
She contacted ACAS this morning, and was advised to raise a grievance in writing with the employer giving them a deadline to settle, which she has done.
I asked her if the MD, department manager and line manager were related - they are. Line manager is MD's niece, department manager is MD's son. I guess that makes it a lot trickier for the company to be dispassionate and objective.
After discussing the matter with the MD, she offered to go quietly with a settlement. He sent her an email offering a month's notice and a lump sum equal to 5 month's salary. He advised her in the email to consult with a solicitor when she receives the written offer, and that they would pay up to £350 +VAT towards the cost. She accepted the offer of settlement, which she was told would be completed by last Friday.
She has not received the written offer yet, nor had any form of communication from the company apart from them saying it is "with their legal team", despite her sending a couple of emails asking for an update.
She feels that they are trying to find a way of just sacking her, and don't intend to honour their offer.
She contacted ACAS this morning, and was advised to raise a grievance in writing with the employer giving them a deadline to settle, which she has done.
I asked her if the MD, department manager and line manager were related - they are. Line manager is MD's niece, department manager is MD's son. I guess that makes it a lot trickier for the company to be dispassionate and objective.
Sadly there is very poor support for BPD. I was misdiagnosed with BPD and then corrected to anti social personality disorder. Not been offered one ounce of support.
Job wise, I’d personally not care what the employer thinks. They would gladly fire her in an instant not giving a damn, which they have, so why should she not just get on with her life and do what she wants?
Job wise, I’d personally not care what the employer thinks. They would gladly fire her in an instant not giving a damn, which they have, so why should she not just get on with her life and do what she wants?
clockworks said:
Unfortunately money is an issue. She lives hand to mouth - compulsive shopping on payday, then selling everything at the end of the month to buy food. she buys phones, tablets, Kindles, expensive boots etc. then sells them at a loss without even opening the packaging.
difficult to really feel sorry for people when they do things like this. Doesn't make any sense to me. Ofcourse you'll have money issues if you keep throwing it down the drain. Lunacy really. Anyway, i cant help with anything else but good luck.ecksjay said:
clockworks said:
Unfortunately money is an issue. She lives hand to mouth - compulsive shopping on payday, then selling everything at the end of the month to buy food. she buys phones, tablets, Kindles, expensive boots etc. then sells them at a loss without even opening the packaging.
difficult to really feel sorry for people when they do things like this. Doesn't make any sense to me. Ofcourse you'll have money issues if you keep throwing it down the drain. Lunacy really. Anyway, i cant help with anything else but good luck.designforlife said:
I would imagine that is a symptom/side effect of her BPD to be honest... so to a point it'll be a compulsive behaviour which is outside her control.
It is part of BPD. Though if she knows she has it and it’s diagnosed then she needs to take ownership of her actions and learn to deal with things. I know that sounds harsh and I say that as someone who was also diagnosed with BPD at one stage. I’m a diagnosed ASPD (psychopathy for slow learners and no, the media and movies don’t portray it correctly) and life is not easy and I’m very impulsive but the diagnosis helped me learn to work with it. Is she at that stage yet? It certainly does not help her that there is next to no help available. Maybe there could be some sort of structure she could have in place. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff