Returning from maternity leave on new unworkable hours....
Discussion
One of my friends is about to return to her place of work following maternity leave. As the majority of staff have children, they are relatively flexible with days, hours and terms times. It is a business of course so everybody understands that the business has to work for its customers. It's a fairly large UK wide company.
Before she went on maternity leave, she had contracted hours that worked around child care. As she is due back from maternity leave soon, they have written to her saying the hours they want her to do start at 7:15am. This is impossible for her as she has a 9 month old baby and another child who goes to primary school. She has said she can't do 07:15 due to child care commitments, but will find child care and potentially be able to do 07:30.
They have completely closed the door on her and said she MUST start work at 07:15. The issue here is that they design peoples work hours around their child care needs, but are not giving her any flexibility at all. She has said that she can do 07:30 but having just had a baby, 07:15 is impossible for her hence her trying to negotiate workable hours which are still very far from perfect for her but meeting the businesses needs as closely as possible.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
She's actually not that phased about not going back as the branch manager isn't very nice, bit of a bully and gets a lot of complaints about her from the staff and customers. I appreciate that her contract will contain all the detail that she can work with to understand her rights, flexible hours, what she's entitled to etc. The issue is that they offered her some hours which are impossible for her to do and they would have known that. She has replied to the email to negotiate a very small window on the 07:15 start time to which she has been told that her last day of employment is her last day of maternity leave. She hasn't resigned and they've not actually said 'very sorry, this doesn't work for the business, you have no job to come back to' etc etc etc.
Is there a requirement to tell somebody that they don't have a job anymore? They haven't done that, she asked about flexible working and just got the "I have taken your last day of employment as xxxxxxxx when your maternity leave ends". She actually thinks that her file will probably say that she's resigned which she certainly hasn't. It's a bit odd really as the employer hasn't actually said she no longer has a job there if she can't do those exact hours (despite everybody having flexible working hours) and she didn't resign, she's sort of been swept under the carpet.
Any thoughts? It feels very informal to me!!
Before she went on maternity leave, she had contracted hours that worked around child care. As she is due back from maternity leave soon, they have written to her saying the hours they want her to do start at 7:15am. This is impossible for her as she has a 9 month old baby and another child who goes to primary school. She has said she can't do 07:15 due to child care commitments, but will find child care and potentially be able to do 07:30.
They have completely closed the door on her and said she MUST start work at 07:15. The issue here is that they design peoples work hours around their child care needs, but are not giving her any flexibility at all. She has said that she can do 07:30 but having just had a baby, 07:15 is impossible for her hence her trying to negotiate workable hours which are still very far from perfect for her but meeting the businesses needs as closely as possible.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
She's actually not that phased about not going back as the branch manager isn't very nice, bit of a bully and gets a lot of complaints about her from the staff and customers. I appreciate that her contract will contain all the detail that she can work with to understand her rights, flexible hours, what she's entitled to etc. The issue is that they offered her some hours which are impossible for her to do and they would have known that. She has replied to the email to negotiate a very small window on the 07:15 start time to which she has been told that her last day of employment is her last day of maternity leave. She hasn't resigned and they've not actually said 'very sorry, this doesn't work for the business, you have no job to come back to' etc etc etc.
Is there a requirement to tell somebody that they don't have a job anymore? They haven't done that, she asked about flexible working and just got the "I have taken your last day of employment as xxxxxxxx when your maternity leave ends". She actually thinks that her file will probably say that she's resigned which she certainly hasn't. It's a bit odd really as the employer hasn't actually said she no longer has a job there if she can't do those exact hours (despite everybody having flexible working hours) and she didn't resign, she's sort of been swept under the carpet.
Any thoughts? It feels very informal to me!!
Autopilot said:
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
Upon what basis?Discrimination around maternity leave is quite common, however if they are flexible with others the question is what has your "friend" done differently? Has she lodged a formal request for her hours? If she wants to PM me I may be able to offer a little off the record help.
Autopilot said:
One of my friends is about to return to her place of work following maternity leave. As the majority of staff have children, they are relatively flexible with days, hours and terms times. It is a business of course so everybody understands that the business has to work for its customers. It's a fairly large UK wide company.
Before she went on maternity leave, she had contracted hours that worked around child care. As she is due back from maternity leave soon, they have written to her saying the hours they want her to do start at 7:15am. This is impossible for her as she has a 9 month old baby and another child who goes to primary school. She has said she can't do 07:15 due to child care commitments, but will find child care and potentially be able to do 07:30.
They have completely closed the door on her and said she MUST start work at 07:15. The issue here is that they design peoples work hours around their child care needs, but are not giving her any flexibility at all. She has said that she can do 07:30 but having just had a baby, 07:15 is impossible for her hence her trying to negotiate workable hours which are still very far from perfect for her but meeting the businesses needs as closely as possible.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
She's actually not that phased about not going back as the branch manager isn't very nice, bit of a bully and gets a lot of complaints about her from the staff and customers. I appreciate that her contract will contain all the detail that she can work with to understand her rights, flexible hours, what she's entitled to etc. The issue is that they offered her some hours which are impossible for her to do and they would have known that. She has replied to the email to negotiate a very small window on the 07:15 start time to which she has been told that her last day of employment is her last day of maternity leave. She hasn't resigned and they've not actually said 'very sorry, this doesn't work for the business, you have no job to come back to' etc etc etc.
Is there a requirement to tell somebody that they don't have a job anymore? They haven't done that, she asked about flexible working and just got the "I have taken your last day of employment as xxxxxxxx when your maternity leave ends". She actually thinks that her file will probably say that she's resigned which she certainly hasn't. It's a bit odd really as the employer hasn't actually said she no longer has a job there if she can't do those exact hours (despite everybody having flexible working hours) and she didn't resign, she's sort of been swept under the carpet.
Any thoughts? It feels very informal to me!!
How long has she worked for the company?Before she went on maternity leave, she had contracted hours that worked around child care. As she is due back from maternity leave soon, they have written to her saying the hours they want her to do start at 7:15am. This is impossible for her as she has a 9 month old baby and another child who goes to primary school. She has said she can't do 07:15 due to child care commitments, but will find child care and potentially be able to do 07:30.
They have completely closed the door on her and said she MUST start work at 07:15. The issue here is that they design peoples work hours around their child care needs, but are not giving her any flexibility at all. She has said that she can do 07:30 but having just had a baby, 07:15 is impossible for her hence her trying to negotiate workable hours which are still very far from perfect for her but meeting the businesses needs as closely as possible.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
She's actually not that phased about not going back as the branch manager isn't very nice, bit of a bully and gets a lot of complaints about her from the staff and customers. I appreciate that her contract will contain all the detail that she can work with to understand her rights, flexible hours, what she's entitled to etc. The issue is that they offered her some hours which are impossible for her to do and they would have known that. She has replied to the email to negotiate a very small window on the 07:15 start time to which she has been told that her last day of employment is her last day of maternity leave. She hasn't resigned and they've not actually said 'very sorry, this doesn't work for the business, you have no job to come back to' etc etc etc.
Is there a requirement to tell somebody that they don't have a job anymore? They haven't done that, she asked about flexible working and just got the "I have taken your last day of employment as xxxxxxxx when your maternity leave ends". She actually thinks that her file will probably say that she's resigned which she certainly hasn't. It's a bit odd really as the employer hasn't actually said she no longer has a job there if she can't do those exact hours (despite everybody having flexible working hours) and she didn't resign, she's sort of been swept under the carpet.
Any thoughts? It feels very informal to me!!
If she has been there for over 2 years, they can't just get rid of her like that - So if they wish to go down that route, then the ball is very much in their court and your friend would be in a great position.
I thought while on maternity that your "continuous service" carries on - and to be frank I can't see many companies paying maternity for so long if they are employed for less than 2 years.
If however it's less than 2 years, then they can pretty much get rid of you for any reason they like (bar discriminatory reasons / whistleblowing etc).
What does her contract say regarding start / finish times? It should be explicitly mentioned what her start time is.
Jasandjules said:
xjay1337 said:
If however it's less than 2 years, then they can pretty much get rid of you for any reason they like (bar discriminatory reasons / whistleblowing etc).
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/18If her contract states she is to start at 7:15 but she can't - then the company could argue that she can't meet the needs of the business?
Just seems a bit of a messy grey area - But then that's your area of expertise
Jasandjules said:
Autopilot said:
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
Upon what basis?Discrimination around maternity leave is quite common, however if they are flexible with others the question is what has your "friend" done differently? Has she lodged a formal request for her hours? If she wants to PM me I may be able to offer a little off the record help.
The strange bit for me is exactly what you asked, there has been no basis given, just the fact she no longer works there. I know nothing about employment law but would expect there to be a killer phrase understood by all parties that formally sets out why you don't work there especially when they seem to offer flexible hours for exactly this kind of thing.
Thank you for your very kind offer, I will pass this on to her and encourage her to send you a message, thank you! The issue she has is that the manager in question even got her favourite staff member to not leave by basically giving her whatever she wanted. Generally speaking, she's quite horrible to most of the other staff and people have left because of her. Head office always back their managers so complaints go nowhere...even though customers complain about her too!
Thanks again for your very kind offer!!
designforlife said:
Call me cynical, but it sounds like they want her gone and are trying to engineer a scenario whereby she leaves of her own volition.
Definitely this. Sounds like even if she managed to negotiate a return to work there's going to be a pretty nasty atmosphere. Time to move on I'd say. Autopilot said:
One of my friends is about to return to her place of work following maternity leave. As the majority of staff have children, they are relatively flexible with days, hours and terms times. It is a business of course so everybody understands that the business has to work for its customers. It's a fairly large UK wide company.
Before she went on maternity leave, she had contracted hours that worked around child care. As she is due back from maternity leave soon, they have written to her saying the hours they want her to do start at 7:15am. This is impossible for her as she has a 9 month old baby and another child who goes to primary school. She has said she can't do 07:15 due to child care commitments, but will find child care and potentially be able to do 07:30.
They have completely closed the door on her and said she MUST start work at 07:15. The issue here is that they design peoples work hours around their child care needs, but are not giving her any flexibility at all. She has said that she can do 07:30 but having just had a baby, 07:15 is impossible for her hence her trying to negotiate workable hours which are still very far from perfect for her but meeting the businesses needs as closely as possible.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
She's actually not that phased about not going back as the branch manager isn't very nice, bit of a bully and gets a lot of complaints about her from the staff and customers. I appreciate that her contract will contain all the detail that she can work with to understand her rights, flexible hours, what she's entitled to etc. The issue is that they offered her some hours which are impossible for her to do and they would have known that. She has replied to the email to negotiate a very small window on the 07:15 start time to which she has been told that her last day of employment is her last day of maternity leave. She hasn't resigned and they've not actually said 'very sorry, this doesn't work for the business, you have no job to come back to' etc etc etc.
Is there a requirement to tell somebody that they don't have a job anymore? They haven't done that, she asked about flexible working and just got the "I have taken your last day of employment as xxxxxxxx when your maternity leave ends". She actually thinks that her file will probably say that she's resigned which she certainly hasn't. It's a bit odd really as the employer hasn't actually said she no longer has a job there if she can't do those exact hours (despite everybody having flexible working hours) and she didn't resign, she's sort of been swept under the carpet.
Any thoughts? It feels very informal to me!!
Seen this a lot at my place. In short, they don't really want her to come back, and are making it as difficult as possible for her in the hope she resigns. I'd suck it up and look for a new job! It wouldn;t be enjoyable even if she makes it work.Before she went on maternity leave, she had contracted hours that worked around child care. As she is due back from maternity leave soon, they have written to her saying the hours they want her to do start at 7:15am. This is impossible for her as she has a 9 month old baby and another child who goes to primary school. She has said she can't do 07:15 due to child care commitments, but will find child care and potentially be able to do 07:30.
They have completely closed the door on her and said she MUST start work at 07:15. The issue here is that they design peoples work hours around their child care needs, but are not giving her any flexibility at all. She has said that she can do 07:30 but having just had a baby, 07:15 is impossible for her hence her trying to negotiate workable hours which are still very far from perfect for her but meeting the businesses needs as closely as possible.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
She's actually not that phased about not going back as the branch manager isn't very nice, bit of a bully and gets a lot of complaints about her from the staff and customers. I appreciate that her contract will contain all the detail that she can work with to understand her rights, flexible hours, what she's entitled to etc. The issue is that they offered her some hours which are impossible for her to do and they would have known that. She has replied to the email to negotiate a very small window on the 07:15 start time to which she has been told that her last day of employment is her last day of maternity leave. She hasn't resigned and they've not actually said 'very sorry, this doesn't work for the business, you have no job to come back to' etc etc etc.
Is there a requirement to tell somebody that they don't have a job anymore? They haven't done that, she asked about flexible working and just got the "I have taken your last day of employment as xxxxxxxx when your maternity leave ends". She actually thinks that her file will probably say that she's resigned which she certainly hasn't. It's a bit odd really as the employer hasn't actually said she no longer has a job there if she can't do those exact hours (despite everybody having flexible working hours) and she didn't resign, she's sort of been swept under the carpet.
Any thoughts? It feels very informal to me!!
Autopilot said:
It's a fairly large UK wide company.
She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
[other stuff about it feeling informal]
Does this large company not have a central HR department? It sounds very like the branch manager is exceeding her remit and could be exposing them to risk by her actions. HR would be interested in that, I'm sure.She's received an email from the branch manager saying that her "..... last day of employment is XXXXXXXX when maternity leave ends, payroll have been informed and any money owing including holiday pay will be in her final salary...."
[other stuff about it feeling informal]
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