Promotion Dilemma
Discussion
Hi all,
I don’t post often but I’m trying to get different perspectives on my situation to help me decide what I do next. I’m not looking for the magic answer, because there isn’t one, but someone may have experienced similar or think of something that I haven’t.
Apologies, this is a long post so I’ve tried to keep it as short as possible, the first draft was much longer!
I’ve been with my current company since March following my previous company collapsing into administration. At the time, the company that I joined had changed from a joint venture to a subsidiary of one of the companies and so was in a transition with a new manager recently appointed to reorganise and restructure the new business.
Long story short, in December I applied for a role managing the team that I am currently part of. The regional manager and I had discussed this role three times over the nine months since I joined, and the feedback was always positive, and twice instigated by the manager rather than me. Therefore, whilst not taking anything for granted I felt fairly confident.
I found out that the other candidate was a colleague who I recommended to the company when I joined and who had worked with me at my previous company. He is very competent and a really nice chap, but is junior to me, has only 5 years experience to my 17, and whilst I didn’t really help train him, I have helped him out with guidance or advise on a few occasions over the time we worked together.
I was advised that he has been given the role and so has now effectively leap frogged me and will be my manager.
Now, I’ve no issue with and I wish him all the best. He has said that he was shocked to be offered the position, assuming that I’d get it as, in his words I’m by far the most competent and capable within our department. But I’ve been told that because he is younger and less experienced that they see him as someone that they can mould into the role to suit them. Given his comment above, I have offered both my congratulations and my support, stating clearly that if he needs any help with anything to let me know, to which he replied that he’ll definitely take me up on that.
I have an issue with the feedback that I was given following the interview, in that their perception of my workload is that it is equal to everyone else’s, yet I worked out this week I alone have been responsible for almost a third of the companies turnover for the year in the nine months I’ve been there, and there are four others in the same role (albeit at two levels). I haven’t raised this with the regional manager yet but I will do.
I feel that this skewed perception has strongly influenced their decision and don’t think that it is fair, but I don’t intend to pursue it any further other than stating the facts and letting them know I’m annoyed. I don’t expect or want any action to be taken. Once I’ve aired my grievances I’ll move on (mentally, not to another company).
My issue is that now, another position is becoming available shortly due to retirement and the regional manager is really pushing me to take it. The trouble is, that it would be a big change to me and I’m not sure if it’s one that I would want to make.
Rather than managing and reporting the output of the business, it more of a front end role, identifying potential new business, selecting the best opportunities and working to secure the work on the best terms. Nothing that I wouldn’t be able to do, and my knowledge and experience would be hugely beneficial to the company in this role. The role would be interesting and it’s good experience and would look good on my CV. Plus, the regional manager and other managers within the business really think that it’s a well suited role and a really keen that I do it, to the point that they’ve told the MD that they want me to do it, they just need to convince me.
Trouble is, I’m not sure if I want to do it. I can see the positives and I’m sure I could do it, but I’m worried that I won’t enjoy it the same as I do with my current role and also, that I’d just be taking it as it is a promotion and because I’m still a little dejected following being passed over for the role I wanted.
Also, it’s not a traditional route as usually followed in my profession. It’s a sideways step up and quite a change in some ways, although it’s not without it’s similarities.
I have voiced these concerns to the regional manager. They have said that they’d put together a job description for me to help understand what they want/expect. Also, I’m going to talk to the incumbent. He retires in 10-12 weeks so there’s a good opportunity to discuss with him and there would be a good hand over.
If you’ve made it this far thank you. Like I said, I don’t want answers, just would like to know your thoughts to give me more to consider before/if I accept the position.
Many thanks
I don’t post often but I’m trying to get different perspectives on my situation to help me decide what I do next. I’m not looking for the magic answer, because there isn’t one, but someone may have experienced similar or think of something that I haven’t.
Apologies, this is a long post so I’ve tried to keep it as short as possible, the first draft was much longer!
I’ve been with my current company since March following my previous company collapsing into administration. At the time, the company that I joined had changed from a joint venture to a subsidiary of one of the companies and so was in a transition with a new manager recently appointed to reorganise and restructure the new business.
Long story short, in December I applied for a role managing the team that I am currently part of. The regional manager and I had discussed this role three times over the nine months since I joined, and the feedback was always positive, and twice instigated by the manager rather than me. Therefore, whilst not taking anything for granted I felt fairly confident.
I found out that the other candidate was a colleague who I recommended to the company when I joined and who had worked with me at my previous company. He is very competent and a really nice chap, but is junior to me, has only 5 years experience to my 17, and whilst I didn’t really help train him, I have helped him out with guidance or advise on a few occasions over the time we worked together.
I was advised that he has been given the role and so has now effectively leap frogged me and will be my manager.
Now, I’ve no issue with and I wish him all the best. He has said that he was shocked to be offered the position, assuming that I’d get it as, in his words I’m by far the most competent and capable within our department. But I’ve been told that because he is younger and less experienced that they see him as someone that they can mould into the role to suit them. Given his comment above, I have offered both my congratulations and my support, stating clearly that if he needs any help with anything to let me know, to which he replied that he’ll definitely take me up on that.
I have an issue with the feedback that I was given following the interview, in that their perception of my workload is that it is equal to everyone else’s, yet I worked out this week I alone have been responsible for almost a third of the companies turnover for the year in the nine months I’ve been there, and there are four others in the same role (albeit at two levels). I haven’t raised this with the regional manager yet but I will do.
I feel that this skewed perception has strongly influenced their decision and don’t think that it is fair, but I don’t intend to pursue it any further other than stating the facts and letting them know I’m annoyed. I don’t expect or want any action to be taken. Once I’ve aired my grievances I’ll move on (mentally, not to another company).
My issue is that now, another position is becoming available shortly due to retirement and the regional manager is really pushing me to take it. The trouble is, that it would be a big change to me and I’m not sure if it’s one that I would want to make.
Rather than managing and reporting the output of the business, it more of a front end role, identifying potential new business, selecting the best opportunities and working to secure the work on the best terms. Nothing that I wouldn’t be able to do, and my knowledge and experience would be hugely beneficial to the company in this role. The role would be interesting and it’s good experience and would look good on my CV. Plus, the regional manager and other managers within the business really think that it’s a well suited role and a really keen that I do it, to the point that they’ve told the MD that they want me to do it, they just need to convince me.
Trouble is, I’m not sure if I want to do it. I can see the positives and I’m sure I could do it, but I’m worried that I won’t enjoy it the same as I do with my current role and also, that I’d just be taking it as it is a promotion and because I’m still a little dejected following being passed over for the role I wanted.
Also, it’s not a traditional route as usually followed in my profession. It’s a sideways step up and quite a change in some ways, although it’s not without it’s similarities.
I have voiced these concerns to the regional manager. They have said that they’d put together a job description for me to help understand what they want/expect. Also, I’m going to talk to the incumbent. He retires in 10-12 weeks so there’s a good opportunity to discuss with him and there would be a good hand over.
If you’ve made it this far thank you. Like I said, I don’t want answers, just would like to know your thoughts to give me more to consider before/if I accept the position.
Many thanks
With only the insights you’ve provided to hand (one would need to know much more to coach effectively); if I was ambitious, I’d take the role, and do it for 3 years max before moving on. If I was less ambitious, and work/life balance and enjoyment was the top priority, I’d either stick with the current role or move to a new organisation.
Muzzer79 said:
Just give it a crack. What’s the worst that can happen? You might enjoy it more than you think.
You won’t enjoy working for someone you perceive as junior to you.
I was about to say pretty much this.You won’t enjoy working for someone you perceive as junior to you.
Appreciate the "junior" may just be a poor choice of words to mean "less experience" but it's whether it's something that really won't eat away at you.
This ^^^
Ultimately you know what you want from life. If you work/home/ambition balance was right, then you wouldn't have gone for the original promotion. Senior management might have already known the second option was coming up and decided they would prefer to there.
If it was me, and it was a decent uplift in salary, and a job I knew I could do and enjoy, then I'd go for it. But I'm not you and only you can answer those questions.
Ultimately you know what you want from life. If you work/home/ambition balance was right, then you wouldn't have gone for the original promotion. Senior management might have already known the second option was coming up and decided they would prefer to there.
If it was me, and it was a decent uplift in salary, and a job I knew I could do and enjoy, then I'd go for it. But I'm not you and only you can answer those questions.
Wow, didn't expect so many replies as quickly as this! Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
I am leaning towards taking the position on the basis that if it doesn’t work out I can always move on to pastures new. I don’t think it would be seen as a bad thing on my CV, possibly the opposite in fact.
I am moderately ambitious in that there is level within the industry that I’d like to get to, that being possibly a step above the new proposed position. Once above that a lot more travel etc. would be expected. which would cause issues at home.
Work/life balance is important to me. My wife’s health isn’t the best and we have four children under the age of nine so staying away isn’t really an option. I also work from home up to three days a week at the moment as the office is about 100 miles from home. Either the role I didn’t get, or the been proposed role will reduce that to one or two days a week at home at the most, which I am fine with.
My poor wording regarding my colleague. I have nothing but respect for him. We are very similar in many ways and whilst he is less experienced he is very capable. However, his position is junior to mine (the job title is the same but mine has “Senior” in front of it), or it is until he takes up this new role.
I have considered whether I’d have an issue reporting to him and I’d like to think I wouldn’t. Whether that would last I don’t know, but it wouldn’t be his fault, rather the senior management who made the decision.
Senior management were aware that this position would be coming up since before either of the positions were advertised and they have told me that they think I’m a good fit so that might be what’s influenced their decision. If so it would have been nice if they could have had a conversation about this sooner.
There would be a pay rise of probably £5k-£10k, which would be nice but it’s not the sole reason for me seeking progression.
I am leaning towards taking the position on the basis that if it doesn’t work out I can always move on to pastures new. I don’t think it would be seen as a bad thing on my CV, possibly the opposite in fact.
I am moderately ambitious in that there is level within the industry that I’d like to get to, that being possibly a step above the new proposed position. Once above that a lot more travel etc. would be expected. which would cause issues at home.
Work/life balance is important to me. My wife’s health isn’t the best and we have four children under the age of nine so staying away isn’t really an option. I also work from home up to three days a week at the moment as the office is about 100 miles from home. Either the role I didn’t get, or the been proposed role will reduce that to one or two days a week at home at the most, which I am fine with.
My poor wording regarding my colleague. I have nothing but respect for him. We are very similar in many ways and whilst he is less experienced he is very capable. However, his position is junior to mine (the job title is the same but mine has “Senior” in front of it), or it is until he takes up this new role.
I have considered whether I’d have an issue reporting to him and I’d like to think I wouldn’t. Whether that would last I don’t know, but it wouldn’t be his fault, rather the senior management who made the decision.
Senior management were aware that this position would be coming up since before either of the positions were advertised and they have told me that they think I’m a good fit so that might be what’s influenced their decision. If so it would have been nice if they could have had a conversation about this sooner.
There would be a pay rise of probably £5k-£10k, which would be nice but it’s not the sole reason for me seeking progression.
My thoughts are the pay rise is tiny after tax,you will be working from home less time with a sick wife and 4 kids,so more commuting even less family time.You will likely resent your new boss who may be a dick when in charge -some people are.Finally it seems that others have firm plans on what role you should be doing,take charge of your destiny.It seems that you are very under appreciated.
Pothole said:
What specifically do you "worry you might not enjoy"?
There are elements that would change whether I got the last role, or if I accept this new one. However the newer one is more front end of the business and involves rendering and work winning. I’ve done this a bit before and whilst it was ok, I much prefer the other end where I’ve been managing and reporting on projects. Having said that, I can see elements of the position on offer that I could end up enjoying, it’s just that there will be elements I know I’m not keen on.
The new position would still be managing a team so maybe with a bit of clever delegation I could still make it work.
borcy said:
I'm not sure what's holding you back from taking it? Leap into the slightly unknown?
Is the commute 100 each way?
Slightly unknown is possibly a bit worse that completely unknown. It’s into an area of the business that I have somebody experience of and I know I can do, but that I know I don’t relish in the same way I do my current job. Is the commute 100 each way?
That’s not to say I wouldn’t give it my best shot though, and yes, 100 miles each way, but I already get a company car and mileage paid so that’s not an issue other than the amount of time on the road.
Alan535 said:
My thoughts are the pay rise is tiny after tax,you will be working from home less time with a sick wife and 4 kids,so more commuting even less family time.You will likely resent your new boss who may be a dick when in charge -some people are.Finally it seems that others have firm plans on what role you should be doing,take charge of your destiny.It seems that you are very under appreciated.
I completely get where you’re coming from, which is what in part is holding me back from snapping up the opportunity. The pay rise would have to be at the top end of where they’re likely to be willing to pay for it to have any significant impact on our finances.
The whole commuting issue isn’t that bad, it would only be one extra day I’d be commuting and I still get home at a decent hour so get to eat and spend time with the children before bed.
I don’t see the new boss as being an issue but like you say, you can never tell.
It’s your last point that I have an issue with most. It’s seems to me as if they’ve already decided that I should be in this role and have then used this as reasoning for not offering me the position I applied for. I don’t want this to be offered as a consolation prize, and I don’t think it is, but if they had other plans for me I would have liked them to discuss those with me before going through all of this.
I do feel slightly unappreciated by some but I think that’s down to their incorrect perception of workloads and of the role in general, as is often the case between departments/disciplines.
Perhaps you were passed over for the previous promotion because your company knew this new role would be available soon and wanted you in that one instead? Of course they could have handled it a little less clumsily put perhaps they saw better things for you thus why it seems everyone is rooting for you to take this new role?
Personally id take the new role.
Most senior managers have worked in more than one function, so this'll help give wider experience of the business and maybe allow you to expand on your skills.
If you dont like the new role it should be easy enough to move back into your field.
Maybe ask if you could do it as a secondment for 12 months? (But likely no pay rise that way...)
Most senior managers have worked in more than one function, so this'll help give wider experience of the business and maybe allow you to expand on your skills.
If you dont like the new role it should be easy enough to move back into your field.
Maybe ask if you could do it as a secondment for 12 months? (But likely no pay rise that way...)
I think you've missed a glaringly obvious possibility... to an outsider at least. Maybe they are very aware of your sales record (I am assuming that is what you meant by you being responsible for 1/3 annual revenue) and feel that putting you in a role which distances you from an ability to get those results is a bad idea? To their minds, a new business type role may well be a far better choice than some middle-management thing?
Antony Moxey said:
Perhaps you were passed over for the previous promotion because your company knew this new role would be available soon and wanted you in that one instead? Of course they could have handled it a little less clumsily put perhaps they saw better things for you thus why it seems everyone is rooting for you to take this new role?
I think, and you’re right. They knew this role was coming up back in October. They didn’t advertise the role I missed out on until early December. They mentioned the new role to me when giving me feedback earlier this month stating that they couldn’t talk about it before because it’s not public knowledge that the current person in the role is retiring. Having said that it’s still not public knowledge, but is widely anticipated.
Previous said:
Personally id take the new role.
Most senior managers have worked in more than one function, so this'll help give wider experience of the business and maybe allow you to expand on your skills.
If you dont like the new role it should be easy enough to move back into your field.
Maybe ask if you could do it as a secondment for 12 months? (But likely no pay rise that way...)
That’s exactly the different kind of angle I was looking for. I hadn’t thought of that at all and it’s a good a very good point. Thank you. Most senior managers have worked in more than one function, so this'll help give wider experience of the business and maybe allow you to expand on your skills.
If you dont like the new role it should be easy enough to move back into your field.
Maybe ask if you could do it as a secondment for 12 months? (But likely no pay rise that way...)
Blown2CV said:
I think you've missed a glaringly obvious possibility... to an outsider at least. Maybe they are very aware of your sales record (I am assuming that is what you meant by you being responsible for 1/3 annual revenue) and feel that putting you in a role which distances you from an ability to get those results is a bad idea? To their minds, a new business type role may well be a far better choice than some middle-management thing?
You have a point, although I’m not in sales, I’m a Quantity Surveyor for a construction and civil engineering contractor. Our turnover for last year was just shy of £31m, I was responsible for managing and reporting around £10.2m while 5 others were responsible for the other £20.5m. One of my strengths is my contractual knowledge and understanding. Other than the chap who is retiring, there isn’t really anyone else in the business who is strong in this area. As a result, there have been issues on a couple of the contracts I picked up from others last year that have been big six-figure losses, and one of those looks like it may go legal.
My new role would involve effectively vetting the contracts of incoming tenders, deciding whether to bid or not, and negotiating new terms in our best interests. All while managing a team of estimators and bid writers, and striving to increase the number of incoming contracts and thus increase turnover/revenue. As the strongest contractually I’d also still be involved in any disputes should they arise with current and future projects in an advisory role.
In fact, just writing that out has made the new role sound good! Certainly more of a challenge than the role I’ve just missed out on.
Thanks for your input!
got to be honest with you, i am not in too dissimilar a boat, perhaps! Different career path and industry, but some parallels. I am a consultant for an IT consulting firm; a fairly big global one. I've been at it for years and know the whole end to end journey from initial new accounts to scoping work, to sales and pre-sales, delivery, and i've run big P&Ls and so on. So that gives me insights others don't have if they specialist in different bits. In the delivery bit, i tend to do what is essentially full time billable work for clients, essentially acting as senior members of their teams, often setting up and running teams for them etc. It's paid OK, but getting promoted in house in a big firm results in disappointingly s
t pay increments. I could earn far more going and working elsewhere (like 40-50% more), but the role I am in now means I am working 2+ full time jobs, and with 2 young kids and I just can't sustain it. I've been passed over for promotion twice now recently, despite already performing at that level, so... fk this. I'd maybe only receive a 5% uplift anyway, with a zero added on the end of my sales target for bad measure.
I've been looking for other things, but the natural progression would be 1) different consulting firm, same st, more money though or 2) go to 'industry' (which is consulting speak for get a permanent job doing what you do in the 'delivery' bit for clients, maybe even in one of your client's organisations) and maybe not earn more money, but take a welcome workload/stress reduction. I had been exploring other things though and got offered a role as essentially supporting sales for a digital product firm, as well as running the engineering team, but quite a wide scope to control destiny etc. Seemed quite dry and not what i wanted to do when i was offered it 12 months ago, but they really valued what i had done to that point in my career, and it was strong money. I turned it down, but they've been in touch at points and most recently i think i might go for it. It can be a stepping stone to other things, and a maybe unexpected course-change in the career trajectory, but i guess it's hard to know...
Not really sure what point i am trying to make but i guess what may initially seem to feel like being fked over can work in your favour, and jolt you out of a route one linear progression which may benefit you to a greater degree. Comfort zones and all that.
t pay increments. I could earn far more going and working elsewhere (like 40-50% more), but the role I am in now means I am working 2+ full time jobs, and with 2 young kids and I just can't sustain it. I've been passed over for promotion twice now recently, despite already performing at that level, so... fk this. I'd maybe only receive a 5% uplift anyway, with a zero added on the end of my sales target for bad measure. I've been looking for other things, but the natural progression would be 1) different consulting firm, same s
t, more money though or 2) go to 'industry' (which is consulting speak for get a permanent job doing what you do in the 'delivery' bit for clients, maybe even in one of your client's organisations) and maybe not earn more money, but take a welcome workload/stress reduction. I had been exploring other things though and got offered a role as essentially supporting sales for a digital product firm, as well as running the engineering team, but quite a wide scope to control destiny etc. Seemed quite dry and not what i wanted to do when i was offered it 12 months ago, but they really valued what i had done to that point in my career, and it was strong money. I turned it down, but they've been in touch at points and most recently i think i might go for it. It can be a stepping stone to other things, and a maybe unexpected course-change in the career trajectory, but i guess it's hard to know... Not really sure what point i am trying to make but i guess what may initially seem to feel like being f
ked over can work in your favour, and jolt you out of a route one linear progression which may benefit you to a greater degree. Comfort zones and all that.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff