Leaked Group Chat - One Member Suspended
Discussion
Hi all, I'm posting this for a friend as it doesn't involve me personally..
She works for a manufacturing company of a few hundred people, split between warehouse / operatives and office, where she's based.
A handful of them have a Whatsapp group chat on their personal phones, involving the typical banter you'd imagine, some of it (mainly from the lads) pretty rude / offensive, and perhaps not too positive in regards some of the management and other employees..
Today, one of the members was called into HR with a manager, who asked him out of the blue if he was in a group chat - turns out he'd used Whatsapp on a works computer instead of his phone - which he admitted to, and he was suspended on the spot...
He doesn't know what they've actually seen or read, if anything - apparently their IT is only one person, and even at the company I work for with an entire regional IT department, they can only view our browser history, not specific pages of text...
But he's obviously crapping himself and the rest of the group are too, deleting their chat history on their phones etc..
So I'm trying to find out, as I imagine this probably isn't that uncommon of an occurance, what the actual repercussions could be?
I understand the lad that used it on his works computer would be pretty screwed if they could actually access his chat history as it would show he was participating during work hours and on company equipment...
But how would it bode for the other members who, as far as they were aware, were in a private chat on their own personal devices?
She works for a manufacturing company of a few hundred people, split between warehouse / operatives and office, where she's based.
A handful of them have a Whatsapp group chat on their personal phones, involving the typical banter you'd imagine, some of it (mainly from the lads) pretty rude / offensive, and perhaps not too positive in regards some of the management and other employees..
Today, one of the members was called into HR with a manager, who asked him out of the blue if he was in a group chat - turns out he'd used Whatsapp on a works computer instead of his phone - which he admitted to, and he was suspended on the spot...
He doesn't know what they've actually seen or read, if anything - apparently their IT is only one person, and even at the company I work for with an entire regional IT department, they can only view our browser history, not specific pages of text...
But he's obviously crapping himself and the rest of the group are too, deleting their chat history on their phones etc..
So I'm trying to find out, as I imagine this probably isn't that uncommon of an occurance, what the actual repercussions could be?
I understand the lad that used it on his works computer would be pretty screwed if they could actually access his chat history as it would show he was participating during work hours and on company equipment...
But how would it bode for the other members who, as far as they were aware, were in a private chat on their own personal devices?
smithyithy said:
Whatsapp group
Yet another good reason - if another reason was required - to have nothing to do with all this social media junk.They start off with the best of intentions - "We will all meet in the Public Bar of the Rat and Handbag on Saturday at 7" - then it all starts to go downhill. Calling senior people in the company names.
What a good idea.
Edited by The Mad Monk on Friday 7th February 04:24
''European Court of Human Rights (Barbulescu v Romania)
involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
The Mad Monk said:
Yet another good reason - if another reason was required - to have nothing to do with all this social media junk.
While I do sorta agree and tend to avoid the likes of Facebook...People have been exchanging comments and opinions of bosses and colleagues for as long as jobs have existed.
I think the distinction that needs to be made here is that as far as the rest of the group were concerned, it was a private chat intended for them only. If they'd taken to their public Facebook accounts to slag off the company I think it would be different..
Thesprucegoose said:
''European Court of Human Rights (Barbulescu v Romania)
involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
Interesting!involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
Yeah I offered the same advice for the time being - admit to participating in the group chat if questioned but state that to the best of her knowledge it was private and on her own private device.
Re. the software I think you can simply access it via a browser nowadays - arguably it should be blocked by the IT filter for social media etc.
Thesprucegoose said:
''European Court of Human Rights (Barbulescu v Romania)
involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
This.involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
Stupid idiot logging into whatsapp on a works computer. That is asking for trouble imo.
Friend might be advised to remove the work PC from the logged in devices in WhatsApp - access from phone, whatsapp web, log out from all devices
might be a bit late now though
There's also info here for deleting all messages a user has posted to a group:
https://faq.whatsapp.com/en/iphone/21117292
might be a bit late now though
There's also info here for deleting all messages a user has posted to a group:
https://faq.whatsapp.com/en/iphone/21117292
you would have to be sacked to enforce this though.
If it was me, i would argue that it was private and even though there might be company policies prohibiting use, any messages were private, and even though the context might relate to work environment, you are covered by the ECOHR protection from surveillance.
If she is a manager or supervisor though that would covered by equality at work act and sacked.
If it was me, i would argue that it was private and even though there might be company policies prohibiting use, any messages were private, and even though the context might relate to work environment, you are covered by the ECOHR protection from surveillance.
If she is a manager or supervisor though that would covered by equality at work act and sacked.
Edited by Thesprucegoose on Thursday 6th February 20:18
Kev_Mk3 said:
Thesprucegoose said:
''European Court of Human Rights (Barbulescu v Romania)
involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
This.involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
Stupid idiot logging into whatsapp on a works computer. That is asking for trouble imo.
I use whatsapp on my Work PC, I don't really think twice.
Our company aren't a bunch of knobs, though. We are adults and it happens.
I did get fired when I was around 19 at one of my first jobs.
I had a blog (diary basically) where I basically said I felt sad that my friends at work were leaving because the company was stagnated and the management was deeply toxic and that I was thinking of leaving as well.
Some snitchy little
weasel found out about the blog and reported it to management who called me in, and subsequently fired me.Fortunately for me I was the last laugh when it turned out he was a pedo. https://predatorcatchersuk.wordpress.com/2017/08/0...
Just to be clear, I don't know the lad who used the PC and has been suspended 
My friend is one of the phone users.
And to be fair, Whatsapp is just a messaging app more than it is actual social media (compared to FB, Twitter etc..) - from that perspective it's not much different from having a text conversation with a friend and complaining about someone you work with, I'm sure most people have done that at some point..
Obviously the lad's dropped himself in it, but aside from the moral standpoint of being rude or offensive in group conversations, I think the main point remains how the others could be found complicit without it being a violation of their privacy...
Will be interesting to hear what their HR say tomorrow..
My friend is one of the phone users.
And to be fair, Whatsapp is just a messaging app more than it is actual social media (compared to FB, Twitter etc..) - from that perspective it's not much different from having a text conversation with a friend and complaining about someone you work with, I'm sure most people have done that at some point..
Obviously the lad's dropped himself in it, but aside from the moral standpoint of being rude or offensive in group conversations, I think the main point remains how the others could be found complicit without it being a violation of their privacy...
Will be interesting to hear what their HR say tomorrow..
xjay1337 said:
Kev_Mk3 said:
Thesprucegoose said:
''European Court of Human Rights (Barbulescu v Romania)
involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
This.involved an employee who was dismissed for using his work computer to send personal messages to his brother and fiancée during work time.
He was aware that personal use of the company’s computer systems was strictly prohibited, but challenged the fairness of his dismissal on the basis that his employer had breached his fundamental human right to privacy by monitoring his work computer.
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled that, in this case, the employer’s monitoring was an unlawful violation of the employee’s fundamental right to private and family life.
.....Accordingly, where an employee is dismissed on the basis of evidence which was acquired by interfering with his right to private and family life, such as via covert surveillance, his dismissal will be unfair unless that interference was justified and proportionate.''
Basically own up to the whats app but advise the message were private.
I guess he will be done for installing unauthorised software.
Stupid idiot logging into whatsapp on a works computer. That is asking for trouble imo.
I use whatsapp on my Work PC, I don't really think twice.
Our company aren't a bunch of knobs, though. We are adults and it happens.
I did get fired when I was around 19 at one of my first jobs.
I had a blog (diary basically) where I basically said I felt sad that my friends at work were leaving because the company was stagnated and the management was deeply toxic and that I was thinking of leaving as well.
Some snitchy little
weasel found out about the blog and reported it to management who called me in, and subsequently fired me.Fortunately for me I was the last laugh when it turned out he was a pedo. https://predatorcatchersuk.wordpress.com/2017/08/0...
Anything personal on a works PC not a chance.
Just been on the phone to my friend trying to get more info, it's quite interesting...
So apparently a petition had been going around the warehouse / factory side of the business to 'get rid of the HR manager' - I don't know the specifics but apparently there's a long history of complaints about her, both from the factory staff and office employees according to my friend, but that's another issue...
Said HR manager had a meeting with the union rep about how to handle the petition, who started it, how it's getting around etc. The lad that was using WhatsApp on the work computer sits in the office next door, and apparently the walls are paper thin, so he hears pretty much everything that's said in there.
He heard the meeting take place and dropped a message into the group chat about what he'd heard. Veveryone already knew the petition thing was going around so the fact that the HR boss and the union rep were discussing it wasn't really anything out of the ordinary.
Later the same day, that lad is called into the office with the HR boss and one of the main manager guys, who ask him about a group chat and something about disclosing confidential matters (according to my friend the office walls are is thin as toilet cubicles so it's virtually impossible to not hear it...). After some back and forth, the lad was suspended.
He then called one of the chat members, who messaged the rest of the group telling them the 'chat had been leaked'.
My friend and the others agree that the timing of the lad being called up for it was very suspicious - the petition is common knowledge, the meeting was simply a chat about how to handle it and the lad only messaged the group to relate roughly what had been said, so unless his activity was actively being monitored, it's very odd for them to clock his message and take action about it.
In addition to that, between him sending that one message in the morning, and him being called up in the afternoon, probably 100+ other messages were exchanged between the entire group - my friend didn't even see the lad's message because she didn't check in to the chat until later that day, I think it's mostly the guys on smoking / tea breaks that will whip their phones off and chat for a few minutes at a time..
From what me and my friend can discern, HR etc haven't made any direct accusations about the other content of the chat yet, but have suspended the lad for 'gross misconduct' for relaying what he heard through the wall to a private group...
They've since let out that they're going to speak to the other chat members individually tomorrow, so it stands to reason that they've gone through a large amount of the chat - presumably via the lads account while logged in - and flagged all of the participants they can find...
It's all a bit strange really... How did the company catch that one fleeting message about the morning meeting? How did they access the rest of the chat and list of participants? I don't see how that would be possible without accessing or viewing the lads account without his knowledge permission?
It sounds like they've repremanded the lad for the gross misconduct accusation (sharing 'confidential' information), but the only thing they could try to discipline all of the others for, is the content of the chat - which, although morally probably quite poor - is surely just as confidential as their meeting??
So apparently a petition had been going around the warehouse / factory side of the business to 'get rid of the HR manager' - I don't know the specifics but apparently there's a long history of complaints about her, both from the factory staff and office employees according to my friend, but that's another issue...
Said HR manager had a meeting with the union rep about how to handle the petition, who started it, how it's getting around etc. The lad that was using WhatsApp on the work computer sits in the office next door, and apparently the walls are paper thin, so he hears pretty much everything that's said in there.
He heard the meeting take place and dropped a message into the group chat about what he'd heard. Veveryone already knew the petition thing was going around so the fact that the HR boss and the union rep were discussing it wasn't really anything out of the ordinary.
Later the same day, that lad is called into the office with the HR boss and one of the main manager guys, who ask him about a group chat and something about disclosing confidential matters (according to my friend the office walls are is thin as toilet cubicles so it's virtually impossible to not hear it...). After some back and forth, the lad was suspended.
He then called one of the chat members, who messaged the rest of the group telling them the 'chat had been leaked'.
My friend and the others agree that the timing of the lad being called up for it was very suspicious - the petition is common knowledge, the meeting was simply a chat about how to handle it and the lad only messaged the group to relate roughly what had been said, so unless his activity was actively being monitored, it's very odd for them to clock his message and take action about it.
In addition to that, between him sending that one message in the morning, and him being called up in the afternoon, probably 100+ other messages were exchanged between the entire group - my friend didn't even see the lad's message because she didn't check in to the chat until later that day, I think it's mostly the guys on smoking / tea breaks that will whip their phones off and chat for a few minutes at a time..
From what me and my friend can discern, HR etc haven't made any direct accusations about the other content of the chat yet, but have suspended the lad for 'gross misconduct' for relaying what he heard through the wall to a private group...
They've since let out that they're going to speak to the other chat members individually tomorrow, so it stands to reason that they've gone through a large amount of the chat - presumably via the lads account while logged in - and flagged all of the participants they can find...
It's all a bit strange really... How did the company catch that one fleeting message about the morning meeting? How did they access the rest of the chat and list of participants? I don't see how that would be possible without accessing or viewing the lads account without his knowledge permission?
It sounds like they've repremanded the lad for the gross misconduct accusation (sharing 'confidential' information), but the only thing they could try to discipline all of the others for, is the content of the chat - which, although morally probably quite poor - is surely just as confidential as their meeting??
Sounds like a right place.
So basically this bloke is doing a live stream of events in the office to the whole place, and you think Whatsapp has been compromised, most likely a blabber mouth. Been going on ages I guess. Most likely be sacked I would guess, can't really feel sorry for him.
A petition, FFS, businesses aren't a democracy.
So basically this bloke is doing a live stream of events in the office to the whole place, and you think Whatsapp has been compromised, most likely a blabber mouth. Been going on ages I guess. Most likely be sacked I would guess, can't really feel sorry for him.
A petition, FFS, businesses aren't a democracy.
Thesprucegoose said:
Sounds like a right place.
So basically this bloke is doing a live stream of events in the office to the whole place, and you think Whatsapp has been compromised, most likely a blabber mouth. Been going on ages I guess. Most likely be sacked I would guess, can't really feel sorry for him.
A petition, FFS, businesses aren't a democracy.
Too much chat and not enough work done.........?So basically this bloke is doing a live stream of events in the office to the whole place, and you think Whatsapp has been compromised, most likely a blabber mouth. Been going on ages I guess. Most likely be sacked I would guess, can't really feel sorry for him.
A petition, FFS, businesses aren't a democracy.
Thesprucegoose said:
Sounds like a right place.
So basically this bloke is doing a live stream of events in the office to the whole place, and you think Whatsapp has been compromised, most likely a blabber mouth. Been going on ages I guess. Most likely be sacked I would guess, can't really feel sorry for him.
A petition, FFS, businesses aren't a democracy.
Some of the stories my friend tells me.. I'd be looking for another job ASAP personally.So basically this bloke is doing a live stream of events in the office to the whole place, and you think Whatsapp has been compromised, most likely a blabber mouth. Been going on ages I guess. Most likely be sacked I would guess, can't really feel sorry for him.
A petition, FFS, businesses aren't a democracy.
The HR manager recently emailed her absence spreadsheet to everyone in the company as a way of 'naming and shaming' people that had too many days off sick etc.. The spreadsheet listed employee name, payroll number, no. days off sick, reason for days off (some examples were 'mental health issues' and 'menstrual pains' - not the kind of information you'd want sharing to 300+ people)...
From what I can tell he didn't 'live stream' anything, he literally sent the equivalent of a text message, via his web browser, to the effect of "they're talking about that petition in the HR office now.."
But that aside, I'm just trying to work out for my friend what repercussions the other members face, as it seems the only thing the company could pull them up for would be the potentially rude / offensive comments within the chat, that as far as they were aware, was between a private group.
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