Working in the Civil Service - Worth it for the pension?
Discussion
Looking at the Alpha pension and it seems one of the few half decent pensions out there?
For context, I've started a new career in my late 30s as a junior devops/site reliability engineer. Pretty much at the same time as I moved house out of London to the South East and had kids so I'm now time and cash poor. Have a private pension but it's pretty minimal.
Now I'm looking 25 years into the future and pondering whether the civil service is worth looking at, purely for the pension alone (salary seems pretty pants comparable to similar roles) but once you take in what you'd have to contribute into a pension pot anyway, it doesn't seem to bad.
Anyone got any experience working on IT side of behalf of her maj?
For context, I've started a new career in my late 30s as a junior devops/site reliability engineer. Pretty much at the same time as I moved house out of London to the South East and had kids so I'm now time and cash poor. Have a private pension but it's pretty minimal.
Now I'm looking 25 years into the future and pondering whether the civil service is worth looking at, purely for the pension alone (salary seems pretty pants comparable to similar roles) but once you take in what you'd have to contribute into a pension pot anyway, it doesn't seem to bad.
Anyone got any experience working on IT side of behalf of her maj?
Some may say that choosing based upon ‘current’ pension offerings may not be the wisest move. Factor it in of course, but as is known well, pension goalposts can, and most likely will, move.
https://civilservant.org.uk/information-pensions.h...
https://civilservant.org.uk/information-pensions.h...
A number of public sector pensions schemes have recently been massively reduced by the previous pair of 
in charge. This was challenged in court and the government lost. They’ve yet to say how they’re going to rectify their mistakes, but it’s guaranteed to cost them a lot more money, so odds on they’ll be looking to recoup that somehow, unless Boris and Priti decide to stick up for those involved.
in charge. This was challenged in court and the government lost. They’ve yet to say how they’re going to rectify their mistakes, but it’s guaranteed to cost them a lot more money, so odds on they’ll be looking to recoup that somehow, unless Boris and Priti decide to stick up for those involved.that's interesting Julian I work in the CS and wasn't aware of that. I've been in 15 years, premium pension was closed and I was switched to Alpha. No agreement from me and no new contract was ever offered to or agreed by me.
I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
I'm on a fairly average to lower salary of £26k the pay freeze has affected this massively. A fag packet calculation tells me that with inflation only it should be around £33k. Remember this is inflation only, experience is not rewarded in the CS.
Holiday entitlement is good however.
I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
I'm on a fairly average to lower salary of £26k the pay freeze has affected this massively. A fag packet calculation tells me that with inflation only it should be around £33k. Remember this is inflation only, experience is not rewarded in the CS.
Holiday entitlement is good however.
loskie said:
that's interesting Julian I work in the CS and wasn't aware of that. I've been in 15 years, premium pension was closed and I was switched to Alpha. No agreement from me and no new contract was ever offered to or agreed by me.
I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
.
You will find that every pension plan includes an ability for the sponsoring employer to make any amendments it wishes to the plan as regards future benefits. Past benefits cannot be reduced, so any changes must , when considered overall, not reduce accrued benefits. It is not a matter of breach of contract of employment. Of course, if there is an officially recognised union they must be advised/consulted and they can decide whether to support the changes or not and advise the employees accordingy.I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
.
R.
loskie said:
that's interesting Julian I work in the CS and wasn't aware of that. I've been in 15 years, premium pension was closed and I was switched to Alpha. No agreement from me and no new contract was ever offered to or agreed by me.
I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
I'm on a fairly average to lower salary of £26k the pay freeze has affected this massively. A fag packet calculation tells me that with inflation only it should be around £33k. Remember this is inflation only, experience is not rewarded in the CS.
Holiday entitlement is good however.
It was only some groups in the public sector that had changes to some groups based on their age. Judges, firefighters, armed forces and a couple of others i think. I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
I'm on a fairly average to lower salary of £26k the pay freeze has affected this massively. A fag packet calculation tells me that with inflation only it should be around £33k. Remember this is inflation only, experience is not rewarded in the CS.
Holiday entitlement is good however.
The cost is rumoured to be about 4bn.
I work in the private sector, so have had ten years of no pay rises or only just matching inflation in the better years, and our pensions were shafted about 15 years ago.
Plan is to downshift in about 10 years, (late 50s) and go part time and the civil service is looking very attractive for the hours and the pension.
Design technician in a school is a favourite at the moment. The risk is being asked to teach maths and physics...
Plan is to downshift in about 10 years, (late 50s) and go part time and the civil service is looking very attractive for the hours and the pension.
Design technician in a school is a favourite at the moment. The risk is being asked to teach maths and physics...
CubanPete said:
Design technician in a school is a favourite at the moment...
That's not the civil service!My missus has a civil service pension. She gets £250/mth, so don't think just because you've got a civil service pension it means you'll be spending your days on round-the-world cruises.
The Leaper said:
loskie said:
that's interesting Julian I work in the CS and wasn't aware of that. I've been in 15 years, premium pension was closed and I was switched to Alpha. No agreement from me and no new contract was ever offered to or agreed by me.
I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
.
You will find that every pension plan includes an ability for the sponsoring employer to make any amendments it wishes to the plan as regards future benefits. Past benefits cannot be reduced, so any changes must , when considered overall, not reduce accrued benefits. It is not a matter of breach of contract of employment. Of course, if there is an officially recognised union they must be advised/consulted and they can decide whether to support the changes or not and advise the employees accordingy.I have mentioned to the union (Prospect) a few times that I think this is breach of contract and to be honest they have been pretty useless, same goes when I thought the pay freeze was also a breach.
.
R.
@Loskie - a pay award isn't contractual either. However there was some debate about whether pay increments were contractual or "performance related". The Unions' view was that they were contractual and therefore automatic. The austerity government argued that they weren't and, at the very least, should only be awarded if performance targets were met. IIRC they were supposed to be banned but I'm not sure how rigorously that ban has been applied by Local Govt. (and there were ways around it, in any case)
In response to the original question a Final salary pension is always worth taking but it shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not to take a job. Having worked in both the private sector and public sector the pay is generally better in the former plus you don't have to deal with the public.
Bebop Beru said:
Looking at the Alpha pension and it seems one of the few half decent pensions out there?
For context, I've started a new career in my late 30s as a junior devops/site reliability engineer. Pretty much at the same time as I moved house out of London to the South East and had kids so I'm now time and cash poor. Have a private pension but it's pretty minimal.
Now I'm looking 25 years into the future and pondering whether the civil service is worth looking at, purely for the pension alone (salary seems pretty pants comparable to similar roles) but once you take in what you'd have to contribute into a pension pot anyway, it doesn't seem to bad.
Anyone got any experience working on IT side of behalf of her maj?
I did an IT role in the civil service - lasted just under two years before I went back to the private sector. Was concerned over skill fade and a few other things. Was at SEO grade (with additional tech allowances that were non-pensionable) and was able to transfer the pension to a SIPP as it was under two years. The pensionable part of the salary was 43k per annum and the transferable amount for just under 2 years service was over £16k and that was for the Alpha pension. For context, I've started a new career in my late 30s as a junior devops/site reliability engineer. Pretty much at the same time as I moved house out of London to the South East and had kids so I'm now time and cash poor. Have a private pension but it's pretty minimal.
Now I'm looking 25 years into the future and pondering whether the civil service is worth looking at, purely for the pension alone (salary seems pretty pants comparable to similar roles) but once you take in what you'd have to contribute into a pension pot anyway, it doesn't seem to bad.
Anyone got any experience working on IT side of behalf of her maj?
Bebop Beru said:
Looking at the Alpha pension and it seems one of the few half decent pensions out there?
For context, I've started a new career in my late 30s as a junior devops/site reliability engineer. Pretty much at the same time as I moved house out of London to the South East and had kids so I'm now time and cash poor. Have a private pension but it's pretty minimal.
Now I'm looking 25 years into the future and pondering whether the civil service is worth looking at, purely for the pension alone (salary seems pretty pants comparable to similar roles) but once you take in what you'd have to contribute into a pension pot anyway, it doesn't seem to bad.
Anyone got any experience working on IT side of behalf of her maj?
If you have any small measure of gumption or get up and go you'll shrivel and die in Central GovFor context, I've started a new career in my late 30s as a junior devops/site reliability engineer. Pretty much at the same time as I moved house out of London to the South East and had kids so I'm now time and cash poor. Have a private pension but it's pretty minimal.
Now I'm looking 25 years into the future and pondering whether the civil service is worth looking at, purely for the pension alone (salary seems pretty pants comparable to similar roles) but once you take in what you'd have to contribute into a pension pot anyway, it doesn't seem to bad.
Anyone got any experience working on IT side of behalf of her maj?
Its always been my plan to retire to Public Sector working when I had enough of busting a gut in the private sector, actually thought I was getting to the point I could slow down and then started working with Public Sector on a project, nope, not there yet, its so painful, don't do it
anonymous said:
[redacted]
OTOH you do also get to work with a lot of people who genuinely care about helping people and trying to make our society better. I worked with Nurses, doctors, teachers, Police officers, probation officers, Housing officers etc. I'm not saying their all saints but the vast majority of them, I got the impression they cared more about "making a difference" than what their day rate was.Countdown said:
OTOH you do also get to work with a lot of people who genuinely care about helping people and trying to make our society better. I worked with Nurses, doctors, teachers, Police officers, probation officers, Housing officers etc. I'm not saying their all saints but the vast majority of them, I got the impression they cared more about "making a difference" than what their day rate was.
Sorry I was only talking about the IT side of things, I am sure there are many who want to and do a good job but Private Sector IT and Public are like night and day, the annoying thing is, in a lot of what I have seen its not necessarily a lack of talent just a lack of any real urgency or to do things in a profitable way, its just all.....so.....slow....and....backwardsI have worked in and out of the Civil Service, specifically in IT for a while now. I started off as an Apprentice WebOps Engineer (EO) and spent 2 years receiving a hell of a lot of training, coming from being a complete novice to a mid-level DevOps Engineer... I worked on some really cutting-edge projects working alongside some of the best Engineers I've come across (contractors albeit), the pension is good, yes, but it is not the only benefit. The fact you can and will receive a lot of training, flexi-time, good annual leave allowance and just a generally nice working environment/culture makes it worthwhile also.
I then went to the private sector for a year or so, but I didn't like it at all. Obviously the company in question wasn't the best indication of what else is out there, but it was enough for me to move back in to the Civil Service, this time at a higher grade (SEO) in a different Department - It was very much the same, I didn't even have to undergo a probationary period as I had been in the Civil Service in the last 2 years.
Since then, I've moved to a GovCo working for my original Department where I was an apprentice at G6 equivalent (minus the DB pension) and again, it just feels like home. There are no micro-managers, clock-watchers or those who point blame. It has a very flexible working policy and everyone is treated like an adult (at least in the Departments I've worked in!) and the pension is good!
I then went to the private sector for a year or so, but I didn't like it at all. Obviously the company in question wasn't the best indication of what else is out there, but it was enough for me to move back in to the Civil Service, this time at a higher grade (SEO) in a different Department - It was very much the same, I didn't even have to undergo a probationary period as I had been in the Civil Service in the last 2 years.
Since then, I've moved to a GovCo working for my original Department where I was an apprentice at G6 equivalent (minus the DB pension) and again, it just feels like home. There are no micro-managers, clock-watchers or those who point blame. It has a very flexible working policy and everyone is treated like an adult (at least in the Departments I've worked in!) and the pension is good!
95JO said:
a GovCo working for my original Department where I was an apprentice at G6 equivalent (minus the DB pension)
How, what, why, what? Apprentice at G6?! Still in IT? Or Digital? This sounds interesting - have I misunderstood?Edited to add: Never mind, you meant that where you're back where you started but as a G6 now, not that you're an "apprentice G6".
There are many more positive answers in this thread than I thought that there would be. I went "back in" 18 months ago and haven't regretted it. The Digital folk (the proper ones, not those who fancied giving Digital a go) are incredibly diligent and forward thinking and I enjoy working with them.
Edited by echazfraz on Monday 2nd March 14:21
echazfraz said:
How, what, why, what? Apprentice at G6?! Still in IT? Or Digital? This sounds interesting - have I misunderstood?
Sorry, maybe I could've worded that better. I'm back at the original Department I completed my EO-level apprenticeship at. However, I'm now in via a GovCo (owned by the same Department) at the equivalent grade/pay as a G6 - However, I'm no longer eligible for the DB pension as a trade off for the higher salary. Instead I get a pretty decent DC pension scheme (the salary increase far outweighs the pension benefits in my scenario).Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff