Self employed issues re Coronavirus

[condor]

I know, another Coronavirus thread except this one is for us self employed folk to get information.
Please help give us guidance if you are able to as I'm struggling to find it.

I've been a self employed dog walker and pet sitter for the last 10 years. Plenty of cancellations as people are now working from home and can exercise their dogs - also holiday bookings cancelled so no house sits needed. Weekend day care cancelled as sporting events cancelled.
Mine is not a well paying job in the first place - but I can see me losing half of my income in the next few months. I don't charge a cancellation fee or have insurance to protect against a massive drop in earnings due to a pandemic.

I'm not sure I qualify for anything - I only pay NI stamp 2 contributions and don't earn more than £10K a year.

I'm hoping that others in a similar situation could provide info or links to possible sources of government help. Not only to help me but to others in a similar situation who also need help.

Thanks

[So]

condor said:

I know, another Coronavirus thread except this one is for us self employed folk to get information.
Please help give us guidance if you are able to as I'm struggling to find it.

I've been a self employed dog walker and pet sitter for the last 10 years. Plenty of cancellations as people are now working from home and can exercise their dogs - also holiday bookings cancelled so no house sits needed. Weekend day care cancelled as sporting events cancelled.
Mine is not a well paying job in the first place - but I can see me losing half of my income in the next few months. I don't charge a cancellation fee or have insurance to protect against a massive drop in earnings due to a pandemic.

I'm not sure I qualify for anything - I only pay NI stamp 2 contributions and don't earn more than £10K a year.

I'm hoping that others in a similar situation could provide info or links to possible sources of government help. Not only to help me but to others in a similar situation who also need help.

Thanks

I am interested in this too. We have a number of Eastern European tenants who are losing their jobs and asking me what help they can get.

[moles]

Nothing yet other than normal benefits but I’d be amazed if it wasn’t going to be announced that the self employed will get something next week.

[Countdown]

condor said:

I know, another Coronavirus thread except this one is for us self employed folk to get information.
Please help give us guidance if you are able to as I'm struggling to find it.

I've been a self employed dog walker and pet sitter for the last 10 years. Plenty of cancellations as people are now working from home and can exercise their dogs - also holiday bookings cancelled so no house sits needed. Weekend day care cancelled as sporting events cancelled.
Mine is not a well paying job in the first place - but I can see me losing half of my income in the next few months. I don't charge a cancellation fee or have insurance to protect against a massive drop in earnings due to a pandemic.

I'm not sure I qualify for anything - I only pay NI stamp 2 contributions and don't earn more than £10K a year.

I'm hoping that others in a similar situation could provide info or links to possible sources of government help. Not only to help me but to others in a similar situation who also need help.

Thanks

Wouldn't you be entitled to Universal Credit, Housing benefit/CT benefit anyway?

[condor]

I don't know. I've no idea what the criteria is for any benefit claiming.
I've lived on my own self employed income since 2010

Prior to that I'd been employed but was made redundant due to company insolvencies.

Edited by condor on Saturday 21st March 21:21

[Leptons]

I’m a sole trader/Self employed. I can’t work from home, I don’t want to be working at the moment due to what I do as I’m in and out of people’s cars all day so there is a risk to me and the customer through spreading the Virus. From Monday I am screwed because the schools are shut and I have no childcare.

I do still have faith that we will get some kind of proper deal in the next couple of days. I pay my Tax and NI just like anyone else so they literally cannot deny it to us when the rest are getting 80% of their earnings paid!

[ColdoRS]

Unpopular opinion incoming... and not intended to be antagonising in the slightest.

But those that enjoy the flexibility, freedom and uncapped earning potential that comes with being self employed, must accept that an economic issue like this is a risk they take and should mitigate accordingly (by having a fund for rainy days).

[DJMC]

ColdoRS said:

Unpopular opinion incoming... and not intended to be antagonising in the slightest.

But those that enjoy the flexibility, freedom and uncapped earning potential that comes with being self employed, must accept that an economic issue like this is a risk they take and should mitigate accordingly (by having a fund for rainy days).

That would apply equally to the employed.
Being s/emp isn't some kind of crime, it's generally for those who can think for themselves. They are generally leaders not followers.

[Saleen836]

Leptons said:

I’m a sole trader/Self employed. I can’t work from home, I don’t want to be working at the moment due to what I do as I’m in and out of people’s cars all day so there is a risk to me and the customer through spreading the Virus. From Monday I am screwed because the schools are shut and I have no childcare.

I do still have faith that we will get some kind of proper deal in the next couple of days. I pay my Tax and NI just like anyone else so they literally cannot deny it to us when the rest are getting 80% of their earnings paid!

My understanding is (stand to be corrected if wrong) the 80% of earnings paid is IF they are still working for their employer, they wont be paid 80% or up to £2500 for sitting at home doing nothing

[So]

ColdoRS said:

Unpopular opinion incoming... and not intended to be antagonising in the slightest.

But those that enjoy the flexibility, freedom and uncapped earning potential that comes with being self employed, must accept that an economic issue like this is a risk they take and should mitigate accordingly (by having a fund for rainy days).

The point. You've missed it.

The social security measures being put in place are to ensure that all workers make the right choices. If a self-employed plumber who has just started a cough and a fever knows that he will get 80% of his income whilst staying at home, he won't take a chance on going to repair your Mum's boiler.

It is not reasonable to expect anyone to predict and make provision for an event such as this. Furthermore, there is no logic whatsoever in the assumption that the self-employed should predict and mitigate an unprecedented global pandemic more than the employed.

Unpopular opinions are fine - I hold many of them myself - but if you're going to share yours on a forum where there are people who are losing businesses they have built over many years, that they have taken great risk to establish, whose families have had to share the insecurity of there being no "proper job" to fall back upon, at least think through your arguments,

[Leptons]

ColdoRS said:

Unpopular opinion incoming... and not intended to be antagonising in the slightest.

But those that enjoy the flexibility, freedom and uncapped earning potential that comes with being self employed, must accept that an economic issue like this is a risk they take and should mitigate accordingly (by having a fund for rainy days).

You’re obviously not very bright. Probably the kind of guy that’s had the same job his whole life and never progressed.

[227bhp]

ColdoRS said:

Unpopular opinion incoming... and not intended to be antagonising in the slightest.

But those that enjoy the flexibility, freedom and uncapped earning potential that comes with being self employed, must accept that an economic issue like this is a risk they take and should mitigate accordingly (by having a fund for rainy days).

I agree and i'm self employed.

The problem is proving you are unable to work due to CV, I could claim I am then carry on working.

[megaphone]

From what I read, self-employed will be able to get income support, £94/w. But not sure how you go about it or who actually qualifies. I do have a rainy day fund but will be a bit peeved if others, who are less prudent, get free cash.

I also feel for those still out there working hard keeping the country going, whilst others are sitting at home on their backsides getting a free hand out. Hopefully those still working will get some reward.

Edited by megaphone on Sunday 22 March 10:16

[ColdoRS]

Leptons said:

ColdoRS said:

Unpopular opinion incoming... and not intended to be antagonising in the slightest.

But those that enjoy the flexibility, freedom and uncapped earning potential that comes with being self employed, must accept that an economic issue like this is a risk they take and should mitigate accordingly (by having a fund for rainy days).

You’re obviously not very bright. Probably the kind of guy that’s had the same job his whole life and never progressed.

I expected someone would get triggered.
You’re a mile off but it’s not about what I do for a living and I wasn’t having a go or bashing the self employed.

I’m all for government help for everyone in this situation but surely being self employed, a leg break or long term illness could lead to the same time out? In which case they wouldn’t expect much government support. With that, I’d hope most self employed people have some kind of financial provisions for a bit of time off work - if not their heads must be in the clouds. In my opinion.

[Leptons]

ColdoRS said:

I expected someone would get triggered.
You’re a mile off but it’s not about what I do for a living and I wasn’t having a go or bashing the self employed.

I’m all for government help for everyone in this situation but surely being self employed, a leg break or long term illness could lead to the same time out? In which case they wouldn’t expect much government support. With that, I’d hope most self employed people have some kind of financial provisions for a bit of time off work - if not their heads must be in the clouds. In my opinion.

Not at all, use your brain. I Do have a small rainy day fund but it doesn’t run until the beginning of September which is likely when the schools will reopen. I also have various insurances in place, none of which will cover for this eventuality.

This is a once a lifetime situation which nobody could plan for, it’s not a leg break. If I had broken my leg I would still be working because I would have ways around that.

To say that people who are self employed have “uncapped earning ability” is absolutely blinkered. There is only so much work a one man band can do and with running costs to boot.

If we are paying our taxes and can’t work because of corona virus we should be offered the same deal as any PAYE employee.

This is why I can look down my newsfeed on Facebook and see that every Hair salon, Plumber, plaster, Sparky, Builder e.t.c is still trading and spreading the infection to all and sundry - because they haven’t been offered a proper deal and therefore can’t afford to stop working.

[Countdown]

Leptons said:

If we are paying our taxes and can’t work because of corona virus we should be offered the same deal as any PAYE employee.

I suggested using self employed peoples tax records asa basis for payments. AIUI PAYE employees are going to get 80% of their net pay paid by the Govt. It seems reasonable for Self-employed to get 80% of their post-tax profits as well,

[So]

Countdown said:

Leptons said:

If we are paying our taxes and can’t work because of corona virus we should be offered the same deal as any PAYE employee.

I suggested using self employed peoples tax records asa basis for payments. AIUI PAYE employees are going to get 80% of their net pay paid by the Govt. It seems reasonable for Self-employed to get 80% of their post-tax profits as well,

It does indeed and I think it is entirely necessary.

The cynical may take the view that it's actually better value than supporting PAYE staff, because self-assessment figures may report less than actual income.

But the principle of all tax payers receiving 80% of pre-COVID net salary seems entirely equitable. After all, we are all going to have increased taxation to pay for it.

[clived]

Countdown said:

I suggested using self employed peoples tax records asa basis for payments. AIUI PAYE employees are going to get 80% of their net pay paid by the Govt. It seems reasonable for Self-employed to get 80% of their post-tax profits as well,

Would 80% of the self employed person's PAYE income be the better equivalent? Employees won't also be getting 80% of any profit related bonus scheme their company might have being operating which may well not now be paying out. Dividends are effectively the equivalent of this. Not as valuable obviously, but a side effect of having been "tax efficient" historically :-/

[skwdenyer]

clived said:

Countdown said:

I suggested using self employed peoples tax records asa basis for payments. AIUI PAYE employees are going to get 80% of their net pay paid by the Govt. It seems reasonable for Self-employed to get 80% of their post-tax profits as well,

Would 80% of the self employed person's PAYE income be the better equivalent? Employees won't also be getting 80% of any profit related bonus scheme their company might have being operating which may well not now be paying out. Dividends are effectively the equivalent of this. Not as valuable obviously, but a side effect of having been "tax efficient" historically :-/

Self employed don’t pay PAYE.

Methinks you may be getting confused with IT contractors operating via Ltd companies!?

[Countdown]

So said:

It does indeed and I think it is entirely necessary.

The cynical may take the view that it's actually better value than supporting PAYE staff, because self-assessment figures may report less than actual income.

But the principle of all tax payers receiving 80% of pre-COVID net salary seems entirely equitable. After all, we are all going to have increased taxation to pay for it.

But the other side of the coin is that PAYE wouldn't still be earning whilst being furloughed, whereas there's nothing to stop Self-Employed people continuing to work (whilst claiming any COVID19 benefits).

The issue here (as it is with all issues of tax and benefits) is that whatever rules the Government eventually decides, they can and will be "gamed" and people will attempt to maximise their personal benefit, regardless of legality or morality.