Should I just be grateful?
Discussion
Hi All i need some advice from the great of PH
Have made an anon account for this as to not link to my current employer.
Cast back to 2018, Was working for a machinery manufacturer BDM role for around 2.5 years before, Salary was very good (Circa 55-60k) with the normal nice car etc.
Offered a regional director role within a SME Ltd business in the same industry, Had previously been offered Branch manager roles there and also politely said thank you but no thank you.
Anyway, part of the new role was a reduced salary (40K) however being entered into a EMI scheme which would in 4 years time give ownership of the business to myself and another employee and allow the directors to retire and take their money out.
Cast forward to early this year, EMI scheme is now off the table and the Ltd company is being purchased by the manufacturer which we distribute for...
In the last 12 months I have increased revenue 500k in the branch which i am based from and all together boosted morale and got a good team around me..
The potential deal which they have verbally put forward to me is the same salary and a 5k p/a bonus if i hit revenue targets..
Would like to get all of your feedback and im sure there is details which I have left out, however should i just be grateful i have a job or should i be looking to tell them to poke it? As i will be honest I feel like i have been well and truly used and may have affected my career prospects...
Have made an anon account for this as to not link to my current employer.
Cast back to 2018, Was working for a machinery manufacturer BDM role for around 2.5 years before, Salary was very good (Circa 55-60k) with the normal nice car etc.
Offered a regional director role within a SME Ltd business in the same industry, Had previously been offered Branch manager roles there and also politely said thank you but no thank you.
Anyway, part of the new role was a reduced salary (40K) however being entered into a EMI scheme which would in 4 years time give ownership of the business to myself and another employee and allow the directors to retire and take their money out.
Cast forward to early this year, EMI scheme is now off the table and the Ltd company is being purchased by the manufacturer which we distribute for...
In the last 12 months I have increased revenue 500k in the branch which i am based from and all together boosted morale and got a good team around me..
The potential deal which they have verbally put forward to me is the same salary and a 5k p/a bonus if i hit revenue targets..
Would like to get all of your feedback and im sure there is details which I have left out, however should i just be grateful i have a job or should i be looking to tell them to poke it? As i will be honest I feel like i have been well and truly used and may have affected my career prospects...
undervalued91 said:
Hi All i need some advice from the great of PH
Have made an anon account for this as to not link to my current employer.
Cast back to 2018, Was working for a machinery manufacturer BDM role for around 2.5 years before, Salary was very good (Circa 55-60k) with the normal nice car etc.
Offered a regional director role within a SME Ltd business in the same industry, Had previously been offered Branch manager roles there and also politely said thank you but no thank you.
Anyway, part of the new role was a reduced salary (40K) however being entered into a EMI scheme which would in 4 years time give ownership of the business to myself and another employee and allow the directors to retire and take their money out.
Cast forward to early this year, EMI scheme is now off the table and the Ltd company is being purchased by the manufacturer which we distribute for...
In the last 12 months I have increased revenue 500k in the branch which i am based from and all together boosted morale and got a good team around me..
The potential deal which they have verbally put forward to me is the same salary and a 5k p/a bonus if i hit revenue targets..
Would like to get all of your feedback and im sure there is details which I have left out, however should i just be grateful i have a job or should i be looking to tell them to poke it? As i will be honest I feel like i have been well and truly used and may have affected my career prospects...
Do you have the EMI scheme and agreement bit in writing. It sounds as though this might be important to study to see if there are any clauses which might apply. Have made an anon account for this as to not link to my current employer.
Cast back to 2018, Was working for a machinery manufacturer BDM role for around 2.5 years before, Salary was very good (Circa 55-60k) with the normal nice car etc.
Offered a regional director role within a SME Ltd business in the same industry, Had previously been offered Branch manager roles there and also politely said thank you but no thank you.
Anyway, part of the new role was a reduced salary (40K) however being entered into a EMI scheme which would in 4 years time give ownership of the business to myself and another employee and allow the directors to retire and take their money out.
Cast forward to early this year, EMI scheme is now off the table and the Ltd company is being purchased by the manufacturer which we distribute for...
In the last 12 months I have increased revenue 500k in the branch which i am based from and all together boosted morale and got a good team around me..
The potential deal which they have verbally put forward to me is the same salary and a 5k p/a bonus if i hit revenue targets..
Would like to get all of your feedback and im sure there is details which I have left out, however should i just be grateful i have a job or should i be looking to tell them to poke it? As i will be honest I feel like i have been well and truly used and may have affected my career prospects...
On the face of it, it does sound like you have been shafted, but I would suggest being calm and trying to plot your way through it. Have you spoken to the purchasing company yet. For all you know, they might want to retain you in some special way once they realise that you are a key employee.
Hi,
I don't have any experience in senior levels of work but taking a Salary cut from 55k to 40k on the understanding you'd end up owning the company, to then finding out its being taken over by someone else is a piss take to be honest.
I have no clue as to the legalities or if you signed some contract, whether you could take some legal action.
If your industry is a ''unessential'' line of work, just stay bite you tongue, stay quiet until the s
t show of the economy unfolds, then look for another Job.
Sorry to be of limited help, but if I was in your position i'd be looking at job safety at the moment.
I don't have any experience in senior levels of work but taking a Salary cut from 55k to 40k on the understanding you'd end up owning the company, to then finding out its being taken over by someone else is a piss take to be honest.
I have no clue as to the legalities or if you signed some contract, whether you could take some legal action.
If your industry is a ''unessential'' line of work, just stay bite you tongue, stay quiet until the s
t show of the economy unfolds, then look for another Job.Sorry to be of limited help, but if I was in your position i'd be looking at job safety at the moment.
Hi all,
Thanks for the above. For reference the EMI scheme was being entered into (Not completed) was currently being reviewed by solicitors etc to ensure it was suitable to be sent over to HMRC for approval.
My contract doesn't explicitly state the EMI scheme, I only have an addendum letter stating eligibility to the scheme should I join.
I admit from the above that with hindsight I could/should have had this written in before signing, However I felt that from the background I had on the directors etc that it would be upheld..
For me I guess in the current situation I am second guessing my gut feeling of look elsewhere asap
Thanks for the above. For reference the EMI scheme was being entered into (Not completed) was currently being reviewed by solicitors etc to ensure it was suitable to be sent over to HMRC for approval.
My contract doesn't explicitly state the EMI scheme, I only have an addendum letter stating eligibility to the scheme should I join.
I admit from the above that with hindsight I could/should have had this written in before signing, However I felt that from the background I had on the directors etc that it would be upheld..
For me I guess in the current situation I am second guessing my gut feeling of look elsewhere asap
In your position I would –
1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
jimmydash said:
In your position I would –
1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
Listen to this guy - he speaks sense 1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
Muzzer79 said:
jimmydash said:
In your position I would –
1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
Listen to this guy - he speaks sense 1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
He may not want burn bridges in the current climate, but he should be negotiating this significantly poorer deal (albeit done openly and honestly without brinkmanship) and I'd certainly be putting feelers out.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Muzzer79 said:
jimmydash said:
In your position I would –
1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
Listen to this guy - he speaks sense 1. Appreciate that the “ownership” carrot is gone and I wouldn’t have any achievable legal recourse, of any kind, no matter what legal bits existed in writing or were given verbally and independently witnessed. An employment lawyer can do nothing for me and all his charges will be mine to pay alone.
2. If my current employer puts me at £45k all in, then I would not over-estimate my attractiveness to other potential employers. That says I would not be leaving after having declined a super attractive offer to stay.
3. Be grateful for continued employment, smile with enthusiasm for the new opportunity, work my ass off in a positive way for the new bosses and either get promoted because I’m worth it or expect to get head hunted by another company when they see in the market what a superb contributor I am.
4. Probably make the same mistake of 3 years ago again as there was nothing wrong with that decision then. I took an option, I didn’t work out – nothing ventured nothing gained. Maybe next time................
He may not want burn bridges in the current climate, but he should be negotiating this significantly poorer deal (albeit done openly and honestly without brinkmanship) and I'd certainly be putting feelers out.
Personally, not one for putting up with it and being ever so grateful to my employer for a job, as suggested above, if I have proven success in bringing substantial value to the business.
I would consider this was a reversal on an agreement made in good faith, albeit sounds like a non-contractual agreement. The reversal would make me consider if I wanted to stay with that employer, or cut losses, move on and try to move back up to a salary more in line with what was being recieved in the previous BDM role.
Bad timing granted, but this could be done in 6-12 months.
Are you otherwise happy in your position?
I would consider this was a reversal on an agreement made in good faith, albeit sounds like a non-contractual agreement. The reversal would make me consider if I wanted to stay with that employer, or cut losses, move on and try to move back up to a salary more in line with what was being recieved in the previous BDM role.
Bad timing granted, but this could be done in 6-12 months.
Are you otherwise happy in your position?
The manufacturer purchasing the Ltd company...were they aware of the offer the Ltd company previously made to you? I can only assume they weren't and have offered to keep you on, on same salary thinking this would be acceptable (I'd think it was acceptable if I didn't know any different). Presumably the 'other' employee got same offer?
I'd at least have a chat with them about it without getting all disgruntled and see what they say. Ultimately I'd be grateful for the job and do it until you financially needed something better in order to survive, or there's another change of circumstances. Now's not really a good time to get on the wrong side of a new boss.
I'd at least have a chat with them about it without getting all disgruntled and see what they say. Ultimately I'd be grateful for the job and do it until you financially needed something better in order to survive, or there's another change of circumstances. Now's not really a good time to get on the wrong side of a new boss.
IANAEL But....
You have a contract and a written addendum to that contract stating that they would enter you into the EMI and receive ownership at some point..... Your employer has started the process of creating the EMI but it's not complete yet. That EMI was going to re-numerate you with Shares in the business as compensation for the reduced salary?
The fact that your employer has given you a written addendum to your contract, does that not include this in the employment contract? It might not be written on your actual contract, but it shows, along with starting the process of creating the scheme, an intention to provide you with it.
It sounds to me that the big Ltd company has offered you current employers a better offer and they have taken it whilst hoping you will capitulate and bend over ready to take it....
Personally, this would massively piss me off and immediately put me on the look out for a new role. I would raise the EMI with your directors and the new Ltd company and see what they say. I would also see what an employment lawyer has to say about it.
You have a contract and a written addendum to that contract stating that they would enter you into the EMI and receive ownership at some point..... Your employer has started the process of creating the EMI but it's not complete yet. That EMI was going to re-numerate you with Shares in the business as compensation for the reduced salary?
The fact that your employer has given you a written addendum to your contract, does that not include this in the employment contract? It might not be written on your actual contract, but it shows, along with starting the process of creating the scheme, an intention to provide you with it.
It sounds to me that the big Ltd company has offered you current employers a better offer and they have taken it whilst hoping you will capitulate and bend over ready to take it....
Personally, this would massively piss me off and immediately put me on the look out for a new role. I would raise the EMI with your directors and the new Ltd company and see what they say. I would also see what an employment lawyer has to say about it.
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