Where do i stand, moved in job and cant do it.
Discussion
Different user name for obvious reasons.
In Feb I was informed that I was to be moved to a different department at work, told me line manager that I had physical medical issues that would make this unworkable for me.
He asked if I had any proof of these and I told him that they were all disclosed to work when I had the relevant operations and physio and had told my previous line manager about needing an operation but that this was to be put off for as many years as possible as when the corrective work will wear out the second time it will be a joint replacement.
He went away to discuss this with HR, work medical and physio and came back a week later to say, that the move was still going ahead and I had to give it a try.
I did this (after speaking to a rep) and lasted a few hours before the main issue flared up and made the job very uncomfortable, because of what this place is like I carried on in pain the rest of the day, next day I tried again and quicker than the first day it was causing problems.
Went to the work nurse and she signed me off the job to me assigned desk/paperwork instead.
I was kept busy doing this for the rest of the week and the following week was asked if I would be able to do the job now after I'd had some days rest, told them it would be the same as the previous week as its a degenerative injury and isn't going to get better with a few days rest.
Sent back to the work nurse who advised me to self cert until I could see my own GP to referred back to the relevant specialist to get proof in whatever form.
(I had already made appointments with my GP, the private medical specialist who id had seen and the private physio for all relevant paperwork and proof I could get to back my side of the story up.)
I went on the sick, self cert for the first week and when I saw my GP I was given a 4 week sicknote.
In the second week I seen the work Doctor who agreed with me that I was unsuitable for this role and informed HR or this and asked if I could be put back on the role I was doing that allowed me to manage my pain if it flared up (it normally didn't on this way less physical role)
Now while my sicknote was running they arranged a meeting with my line manager and HR to discuss my "absence" but the lockdown came and this was postponed. The company put everyone on furlough, I was called to be informed that I was furloughed too, the following week a letter came informing me that as I was on the sick that I was still going to be on the sick instead of furloughed but if anything changed to inform them.
I called them to confirm which was it, furlough or sick? because of lack of information from the government they would get back to me, I informed them that if I was put back to my previous role I would have been back to work if lockdown hadn't came before my sicknote would run out.
Eventually they got the information that they needed and as my sicknote had run out they would furlough me from that date and a new date for the HR meeting would be sorted for when people started coming back to work.
At the end of may I was called to be told work would be starting in June and to expect a call the week before to go in for an induction for the new protective measures put in place, I waited until the Thursday of the week before and tried repeatedly calling my line manager to find out what was happening as I still hadn't done the induction and was expected in on the Monday.
He told me that he was calling everybody the next day that needed to come in on the Monday and that I was to just stay furloughed (strange he was going to call people on the Friday to start on the Monday if we haven't done the induction) he would probably call me that week after he had been in and seen HR to discuss what was to be done with me.
Heard from people at work that only certain people/shifts were starting and it was a phased return over a number of weeks.
I hadn't heard anything until Friday when I got a letter saying I had an HR meeting to discuss my "medical issues" then later that day a text from my line manager stating the same thing but a different day and time.
I rang him to confirm which was it and the one he sent me was to replace the one in the letter and he would see me then.
Now where do I stand on this? I was doing a job I had took a sort of sideways promotion for, had then been more trained than most people doing the same role and done the next two levels of training with relevant exams meaning I was now a trainer for this role too.
There are other people on the zone who have been there less time than me (including ones who have came in after me) they don't have as much experience as me and don't have the next two levels of training as me.
Should I be moved back to the role I'm obviously trained for (I shouldn't have been moved in the first place)
I've been at the company for many years with no problems prior to this.
Can they fire me?
Sorry for the long read and TIA
In Feb I was informed that I was to be moved to a different department at work, told me line manager that I had physical medical issues that would make this unworkable for me.
He asked if I had any proof of these and I told him that they were all disclosed to work when I had the relevant operations and physio and had told my previous line manager about needing an operation but that this was to be put off for as many years as possible as when the corrective work will wear out the second time it will be a joint replacement.
He went away to discuss this with HR, work medical and physio and came back a week later to say, that the move was still going ahead and I had to give it a try.
I did this (after speaking to a rep) and lasted a few hours before the main issue flared up and made the job very uncomfortable, because of what this place is like I carried on in pain the rest of the day, next day I tried again and quicker than the first day it was causing problems.
Went to the work nurse and she signed me off the job to me assigned desk/paperwork instead.
I was kept busy doing this for the rest of the week and the following week was asked if I would be able to do the job now after I'd had some days rest, told them it would be the same as the previous week as its a degenerative injury and isn't going to get better with a few days rest.
Sent back to the work nurse who advised me to self cert until I could see my own GP to referred back to the relevant specialist to get proof in whatever form.
(I had already made appointments with my GP, the private medical specialist who id had seen and the private physio for all relevant paperwork and proof I could get to back my side of the story up.)
I went on the sick, self cert for the first week and when I saw my GP I was given a 4 week sicknote.
In the second week I seen the work Doctor who agreed with me that I was unsuitable for this role and informed HR or this and asked if I could be put back on the role I was doing that allowed me to manage my pain if it flared up (it normally didn't on this way less physical role)
Now while my sicknote was running they arranged a meeting with my line manager and HR to discuss my "absence" but the lockdown came and this was postponed. The company put everyone on furlough, I was called to be informed that I was furloughed too, the following week a letter came informing me that as I was on the sick that I was still going to be on the sick instead of furloughed but if anything changed to inform them.
I called them to confirm which was it, furlough or sick? because of lack of information from the government they would get back to me, I informed them that if I was put back to my previous role I would have been back to work if lockdown hadn't came before my sicknote would run out.
Eventually they got the information that they needed and as my sicknote had run out they would furlough me from that date and a new date for the HR meeting would be sorted for when people started coming back to work.
At the end of may I was called to be told work would be starting in June and to expect a call the week before to go in for an induction for the new protective measures put in place, I waited until the Thursday of the week before and tried repeatedly calling my line manager to find out what was happening as I still hadn't done the induction and was expected in on the Monday.
He told me that he was calling everybody the next day that needed to come in on the Monday and that I was to just stay furloughed (strange he was going to call people on the Friday to start on the Monday if we haven't done the induction) he would probably call me that week after he had been in and seen HR to discuss what was to be done with me.
Heard from people at work that only certain people/shifts were starting and it was a phased return over a number of weeks.
I hadn't heard anything until Friday when I got a letter saying I had an HR meeting to discuss my "medical issues" then later that day a text from my line manager stating the same thing but a different day and time.
I rang him to confirm which was it and the one he sent me was to replace the one in the letter and he would see me then.
Now where do I stand on this? I was doing a job I had took a sort of sideways promotion for, had then been more trained than most people doing the same role and done the next two levels of training with relevant exams meaning I was now a trainer for this role too.
There are other people on the zone who have been there less time than me (including ones who have came in after me) they don't have as much experience as me and don't have the next two levels of training as me.
Should I be moved back to the role I'm obviously trained for (I shouldn't have been moved in the first place)
I've been at the company for many years with no problems prior to this.
Can they fire me?
Sorry for the long read and TIA
Can they fire you? for this? officially no, because they're asking you to do something which they know you cannot do for pre-disclosed medical reasons, forget everything else, this is what it boils down to.
But that's not the end of it, employment rights are a joke and people are often sacked for other reasons, if they want you gone they'll find a reason, i've witnessed it done to others and i've had it done across me. Time keeping is the automatic go to first choice, because they usually control and have the ability to alter the records.
Record everything, make sure you have a paper trail that shows all of the facts, print or send yourself copies of any related emails, then if they try something else, you'll have sufficient evidence to back you up.
I hope this gets resolved in your favour, but you will put noses out of place, bruise egos and damage your future prospects just by not bending over.
I'm not speaking from a legal standpoint, i'm speaking from a reality standpoint, what should happen and what does happen are often two entirely different things, if all managers were wizards in employment law, then this sort of stuff would be a rarity.
PS don't listen to me <insert personal attack here>
But that's not the end of it, employment rights are a joke and people are often sacked for other reasons, if they want you gone they'll find a reason, i've witnessed it done to others and i've had it done across me. Time keeping is the automatic go to first choice, because they usually control and have the ability to alter the records.
Record everything, make sure you have a paper trail that shows all of the facts, print or send yourself copies of any related emails, then if they try something else, you'll have sufficient evidence to back you up.
I hope this gets resolved in your favour, but you will put noses out of place, bruise egos and damage your future prospects just by not bending over.
I'm not speaking from a legal standpoint, i'm speaking from a reality standpoint, what should happen and what does happen are often two entirely different things, if all managers were wizards in employment law, then this sort of stuff would be a rarity.
PS don't listen to me <insert personal attack here>
Under H&S law the company are obliged to make reasonable adjustments for you. If you worked well at your previous role it would seem reasonable to return to that role.
Sounds like your line manager is an arse or has it in for you. I’d start looking elsewhere though appreciate this is difficult.
Sounds like your line manager is an arse or has it in for you. I’d start looking elsewhere though appreciate this is difficult.
mr mac i said:
Is/could the condition you have be classed as a disability? If it is this makes things very difficult for your employer, moving you to a role which they know is not compatible with your ability from a physical perspective would be sailing very close to the wind.
Fortunately /unfortunately not, it was a bad sports injury outside of work. I minimised the amount of time off I had pre and post operation on it and was repeatedly told to slow down by physio on my rehabilitation. 10 years passed and the repair is failing, I managed this myself and did 6 months of physio with little benefit before I had an MRI to confirm this diagnosis.
The surgeon advised on delaying the operation for as much as 10 years as once it fails the second time I will need a new lower limb joint replacement.
This looked like it would be possible on my previous role and maybe not even need the operation before I took early retirement.
On the new role I was in more pain within hours.
This IS a disability and they ARE discriminating against you. Do you have a union?
Raise the discrimination informally with your boss, it sounds like he’s on your side. Maybe he can tell his bosses this will lead to a formal complaint if they aren’t sensible over this.
Give Jason (Jasandjules) a shout, he’s an employment lawyer who is reasonable.
Raise the discrimination informally with your boss, it sounds like he’s on your side. Maybe he can tell his bosses this will lead to a formal complaint if they aren’t sensible over this.
Give Jason (Jasandjules) a shout, he’s an employment lawyer who is reasonable.
Edited by elanfan on Sunday 19th July 19:11
Bit of an update on this.
Work eventually got back in touch with me in mid July and i saw HR with the Line manager of the department i was moved to and a company rep.
HR were on my side and asking about the injury, what they could do to manage it, is there any other jobs i could manage?
Explained that with being off for that long the pain had subsided but the main injury is still there, doubt there was any other jobs i could do there as i had took this sideways promotion to manage the injury a number of years ago and then did the next 2 levels of training so that i should be able to do that until i retire and why couldn't i go back to what i was doing before the move.
Now this where it gets fun, lets call the line manager who moved me "dick"
Well dick has said to HR he has lost 4 more men since i was moved so it wasn't as simple of just moving me back and moving somebody else instead.
The jobs i did, have changed and dick didn't think i would be able to manage them with my injuries.
And there was a new job, that would have me on my feet all day that i wouldn't be able to manage.
Unknown to dick the guys i worked with from my shift and the opposite shift had been keeping me in the loop so i knew the state of play with what changes if any had been done.
Informed HR of this, he hadn't lost 4 men, he had lost 1 more and the opposite shift had lost 2. Non of which did my job.
HR said we will have to get the company Doctor to see you and see what he suggest.
This is when i played my trump card and pulled out a pile of paperwork about 2 and a half inches thick
(medical notes from my GP, Work doctor, private physio for my shoulder, private physio for my ankle, work physio for both, private healthcare notes for ankle surgery including a letter from the surgeon on the current condition, private healthcare notes for shoulder including a letter from the surgeon on the current condition)
To say the line manager and HR were shocked was an understatement.
Showed HR the letter from the company Doctor from when i first went on the sick, confirming the extent of my injuries and that i was unsuitable for the role i was transferred to or any similar roll to that, and that they should try and put me back to what i could manage and was trained for.
HR and the line manager accepted that and said OK we will have to get work physio to clarify them signing you off over your shoulder injury.
Showed them the medical notes from work physio, mainly the page where they explained there was nothing else they could do for me, what exercises to keep doing and how to manage the pain and to go back to the surgeon for either another steroid injection (which the surgeon had already said was pretty much pointless if the 1st one didn't work) or an operation.
HR and line manager both agreed that this was not "signed off"
HR said ok, we'll have to look in to this and get more information. See if you can go back or what else we can do instead, maybe get the company physio and ergonomics to have a look at the jobs to see what they say. Company rep said ok, but that should be with me present encase i do those jobs any differently with my injuries.
Meeting ended and they will get back in touch with the next date.
1 week later.
New meeting, informed Dick had went ahead and had work physio assess the jobs i do without informing me or the company rep.
Read me physios statement that said
Job 1 changed from "this" to "that" and what problems this would be with my injuries being on my feet most of the time.
job 2 changed from "this" to "that" and what problems this would be with my injuries because of a lot of arms raised doing it.
job 3 as it was before but what problem this would be with my injuries.
New job would have to learn it and be rotated like everyone else and what problem this would be with the injuries.
Again, unknown to dick the guys i worked with from my shift and the opposite shift had been keeping me in the loop so i knew the state of play with what changes if any had been done.
Me and Company rep told them that:-
Job 1 had not changed (it had only changed due to social distancing and low production when they went back after covid lockdown) that there was a different way to do the job that minimised the time on my feet.
Job 2 had not changed (it had only changed due to social distancing and low production when they went back after covid lockdown) that there was a different way to do the job that minimised the raised arms.
Job 3 there was minimal effect on my injuries doing this job.
New job there was no such job, Tt was something my department would temporarily cover until proper cover could be sourced but not using the people trained on the jobs i covered.
The line manager of the department i was moved to, tried to make this new job out as something else but i told him about how it really worked and that he had been fed a load of bull from dick.
Company rep asked who normally covers it and is there anybody who isn't used for whatever reason such as restrictions like me, why yes there is and i can give you a bunch of names off the top of my head.
He then said well if that's the case you can not do it either.
HR said OK we will have to get confirmation and clarification on this, i said why don't we go now and get it sorted straight away?
HR said we cant just go and see, we'll have to make an appointment to go across.
Oh you mean so he can come up with some other excuse or cover his arse.
Bit more back and forth and the meeting was ended, we'll get back in touch.
Within 2 hours they rang me and found in my favour. Going back to what i was doing but with a silly clause to try and make things more difficult for a bit but wouldn't have an effect (just dick trying to throw more toys out and in my way to returning)
More things have happened since then but that's for another time and that Dick will be able to put the blame on other people or admin errors.
Work eventually got back in touch with me in mid July and i saw HR with the Line manager of the department i was moved to and a company rep.
HR were on my side and asking about the injury, what they could do to manage it, is there any other jobs i could manage?
Explained that with being off for that long the pain had subsided but the main injury is still there, doubt there was any other jobs i could do there as i had took this sideways promotion to manage the injury a number of years ago and then did the next 2 levels of training so that i should be able to do that until i retire and why couldn't i go back to what i was doing before the move.
Now this where it gets fun, lets call the line manager who moved me "dick"
Well dick has said to HR he has lost 4 more men since i was moved so it wasn't as simple of just moving me back and moving somebody else instead.
The jobs i did, have changed and dick didn't think i would be able to manage them with my injuries.
And there was a new job, that would have me on my feet all day that i wouldn't be able to manage.
Unknown to dick the guys i worked with from my shift and the opposite shift had been keeping me in the loop so i knew the state of play with what changes if any had been done.
Informed HR of this, he hadn't lost 4 men, he had lost 1 more and the opposite shift had lost 2. Non of which did my job.
HR said we will have to get the company Doctor to see you and see what he suggest.
This is when i played my trump card and pulled out a pile of paperwork about 2 and a half inches thick
(medical notes from my GP, Work doctor, private physio for my shoulder, private physio for my ankle, work physio for both, private healthcare notes for ankle surgery including a letter from the surgeon on the current condition, private healthcare notes for shoulder including a letter from the surgeon on the current condition)
To say the line manager and HR were shocked was an understatement.
Showed HR the letter from the company Doctor from when i first went on the sick, confirming the extent of my injuries and that i was unsuitable for the role i was transferred to or any similar roll to that, and that they should try and put me back to what i could manage and was trained for.
HR and the line manager accepted that and said OK we will have to get work physio to clarify them signing you off over your shoulder injury.
Showed them the medical notes from work physio, mainly the page where they explained there was nothing else they could do for me, what exercises to keep doing and how to manage the pain and to go back to the surgeon for either another steroid injection (which the surgeon had already said was pretty much pointless if the 1st one didn't work) or an operation.
HR and line manager both agreed that this was not "signed off"
HR said ok, we'll have to look in to this and get more information. See if you can go back or what else we can do instead, maybe get the company physio and ergonomics to have a look at the jobs to see what they say. Company rep said ok, but that should be with me present encase i do those jobs any differently with my injuries.
Meeting ended and they will get back in touch with the next date.
1 week later.
New meeting, informed Dick had went ahead and had work physio assess the jobs i do without informing me or the company rep.
Read me physios statement that said
Job 1 changed from "this" to "that" and what problems this would be with my injuries being on my feet most of the time.
job 2 changed from "this" to "that" and what problems this would be with my injuries because of a lot of arms raised doing it.
job 3 as it was before but what problem this would be with my injuries.
New job would have to learn it and be rotated like everyone else and what problem this would be with the injuries.
Again, unknown to dick the guys i worked with from my shift and the opposite shift had been keeping me in the loop so i knew the state of play with what changes if any had been done.
Me and Company rep told them that:-
Job 1 had not changed (it had only changed due to social distancing and low production when they went back after covid lockdown) that there was a different way to do the job that minimised the time on my feet.
Job 2 had not changed (it had only changed due to social distancing and low production when they went back after covid lockdown) that there was a different way to do the job that minimised the raised arms.
Job 3 there was minimal effect on my injuries doing this job.
New job there was no such job, Tt was something my department would temporarily cover until proper cover could be sourced but not using the people trained on the jobs i covered.
The line manager of the department i was moved to, tried to make this new job out as something else but i told him about how it really worked and that he had been fed a load of bull from dick.
Company rep asked who normally covers it and is there anybody who isn't used for whatever reason such as restrictions like me, why yes there is and i can give you a bunch of names off the top of my head.
He then said well if that's the case you can not do it either.
HR said OK we will have to get confirmation and clarification on this, i said why don't we go now and get it sorted straight away?
HR said we cant just go and see, we'll have to make an appointment to go across.
Oh you mean so he can come up with some other excuse or cover his arse.
Bit more back and forth and the meeting was ended, we'll get back in touch.
Within 2 hours they rang me and found in my favour. Going back to what i was doing but with a silly clause to try and make things more difficult for a bit but wouldn't have an effect (just dick trying to throw more toys out and in my way to returning)
More things have happened since then but that's for another time and that Dick will be able to put the blame on other people or admin errors.
OP- do yourself a big favour and contact Jason as I suggested before. A shot across Dick’s bows is most definitely needed here. The guy is a self important bully. The amount of effort he’s put in to making your life difficult is shocking. I’m sure Jason will advise you much better than I, maybe he’ll suggest that if the guy isn’t disciplined or moved there’ll be a complaint to a tribunal.
I faced a similar issue with my employer not my main job so not the same commitment . Basically minding my own business when hit by a car, in work with a broken back a few days later, couldn't walk, high on pain medication. Unable to climb stairs, walk normally or lift anything the basic requirement for my position. The fact I wore trainers seemed to be the main issue.
So I thought f
k it, consultant nearly hit the surgery roof when he found out I'd gone to work after going to the GP the next day after the incident . To be fair the GP told me it was 'soft tissue' and told me to carry on as normal.
Anyways they kept asking me when I was coming back. I told them I was going for spinal surgery. They didn't put anything in place to accommodate me so I just went off sick and they had to pay me for six months. Couldn't have cared less because they treated me like st.
So I thought f
k it, consultant nearly hit the surgery roof when he found out I'd gone to work after going to the GP the next day after the incident . To be fair the GP told me it was 'soft tissue' and told me to carry on as normal.Anyways they kept asking me when I was coming back. I told them I was going for spinal surgery. They didn't put anything in place to accommodate me so I just went off sick and they had to pay me for six months. Couldn't have cared less because they treated me like s
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