Notice period - post Furlough
Discussion
Slightly hypothetical situation at the moment, but could get real.
A member of staff suggested to another he is planning on leaving, and will not be looking to honour his notice period (3 months) if successful in getting the other role, (he has not resigned yet).
Cited reason for feeling he doesn't have to honour his notice, is he was put on furlough,
- had to face a near 50% pay cut (normally paid £45k) for 3 months, all of which is counter to his contract. This short fall has not been made up to him.
- he never explicitly gave consent do go on furlough, simply didn't raise any objections (in writing) when offered, says it was it was presented to him as a fate complete.
I've asked our HR and they are suggesting him being furloughed has no bearing on his obligation to his notice period going forward.
Question, other than put my arm around him, and appeal to his better nature, is there anything concrete I can do if he chooses to give us a weeks notice instead of three months.
Will this set a precedent for other staff members who were furloughed ?
A member of staff suggested to another he is planning on leaving, and will not be looking to honour his notice period (3 months) if successful in getting the other role, (he has not resigned yet).
Cited reason for feeling he doesn't have to honour his notice, is he was put on furlough,
- had to face a near 50% pay cut (normally paid £45k) for 3 months, all of which is counter to his contract. This short fall has not been made up to him.
- he never explicitly gave consent do go on furlough, simply didn't raise any objections (in writing) when offered, says it was it was presented to him as a fate complete.
I've asked our HR and they are suggesting him being furloughed has no bearing on his obligation to his notice period going forward.
Question, other than put my arm around him, and appeal to his better nature, is there anything concrete I can do if he chooses to give us a weeks notice instead of three months.
Will this set a precedent for other staff members who were furloughed ?
I'm no expert but it feels to me like his employment contract was broken by not paying him his full wage, so the notice period would no longer apply.
Morally I can certainly see why he'd feel he doesn't owe the company anything, although that would depend on how much he felt he had been valued in other ways, at other times.
Morally I can certainly see why he'd feel he doesn't owe the company anything, although that would depend on how much he felt he had been valued in other ways, at other times.
V8 Stang said:
I would just let him go, having someone in the workplace who does not wasn't to be there won't be productive.
This would be my normal position, however it might just be a bit of a wobble by him, so a bit of support and reassurance (from his line manager and I) might be enough to regain his trust/ support.He works on projects and therefore notice is important to ensure a reasonable level of continuation and handover.
PurplePJ said:
Not a lot you can do if someone doesn't fulfil their notice period to be honest. Not unless you want to spend a lot of time/money on solicitors, etc.
To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
Bosses never make phone calls to other bosses and never ask for off the record info on a previous employee and they never ever let any info on a potential employee help with their hiring decision. To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
stumpage said:
PurplePJ said:
Not a lot you can do if someone doesn't fulfil their notice period to be honest. Not unless you want to spend a lot of time/money on solicitors, etc.
To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
Bosses never make phone calls to other bosses and never ask for off the record info on a previous employee and they never ever let any info on a potential employee help with their hiring decision. To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
If you were earning £45k then put on 50% salary when Furloughed (is that what's happened?) then that's really rather s
tty of the company to do.xjay1337 said:
stumpage said:
PurplePJ said:
Not a lot you can do if someone doesn't fulfil their notice period to be honest. Not unless you want to spend a lot of time/money on solicitors, etc.
To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
Bosses never make phone calls to other bosses and never ask for off the record info on a previous employee and they never ever let any info on a potential employee help with their hiring decision. To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
If you were earning £45k then put on 50% salary when Furloughed (is that what's happened?) then that's really rather s
tty of the company to do.stumpage said:
xjay1337 said:
stumpage said:
PurplePJ said:
Not a lot you can do if someone doesn't fulfil their notice period to be honest. Not unless you want to spend a lot of time/money on solicitors, etc.
To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
Bosses never make phone calls to other bosses and never ask for off the record info on a previous employee and they never ever let any info on a potential employee help with their hiring decision. To me it's an honour thing, says a lot about the person if they see out their notice professionally.
If you were earning £45k then put on 50% salary when Furloughed (is that what's happened?) then that's really rather s
tty of the company to do.Myself though if I was OP and this happened
1) I was earning £45k per year
2) My salary was cut in half without express permission from myself
3) I was placed on Furlough without discussion and even further out of pocket
4) No additional monies have been paid etc.
And then I found another job :
There would be no way I would be working my notice period either.
I am a consummate professional and I've only ever once in 15 years of working "fallen out" with an employer and many cases I have been doing projects right up until the end of my notice period but there are cases and times where you need to do what is best for you, whether it's because the company have f
ked you over in the past etc. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and all of that, but that is the reality of it.
His company are directly responsible for him suffering financially in a rather significant way and sound like they've gone about it very badly so why should he offer ANY good grace in the situation?
IANAL, however if the employee failed to object to the changes and carried on as 'normal', there may be an argument they've accepted the contractual changes by their conduct.
Depending on the contractual provisions, the notice period and any attached conditions (for example, gardening leave) may be enforceable. Beware that, if you want to rely on non-compete clauses later, you may want to take advice to ensure your own conduct doesn't nullify their efficacy later on.
From a pragmatic point of view, if the employee doesn't respond to an arm around the shoulder and decide to stay, you may create an unpleasant situation by enforcing an unhappy employee's notice period. That spare time on gardening leave can be used to create mischief, of which you're paying them to create.
Depending on the contractual provisions, the notice period and any attached conditions (for example, gardening leave) may be enforceable. Beware that, if you want to rely on non-compete clauses later, you may want to take advice to ensure your own conduct doesn't nullify their efficacy later on.
From a pragmatic point of view, if the employee doesn't respond to an arm around the shoulder and decide to stay, you may create an unpleasant situation by enforcing an unhappy employee's notice period. That spare time on gardening leave can be used to create mischief, of which you're paying them to create.
Wilmslowboy said:
V8 Stang said:
I would just let him go, having someone in the workplace who does not wasn't to be there won't be productive.
This would be my normal position, however it might just be a bit of a wobble by him, so a bit of support and reassurance (from his line manager and I) might be enough to regain his trust/ support.He works on projects and therefore notice is important to ensure a reasonable level of continuation and handover.
I wholly agree we (company) are on the lower moral ground due to furlough and nothing is owned (by him).
However, furlough is a new phenomenon and I would like to understand if there is a precedent that by furloughing, employees obligations such as notice are no longer expected or valid.
Furlough originated in the US (I think) and if I'm right notice periods (either side) are rare in the US ??
Furlough does not negate the contractual obligations. It might change your attitude towards them. If the employee in question is on full time furlough anyway now and you don't need him or her then their notice will be on furlough. If you need them back for a bit to do handover tell them and lay them as normal for their time.
I would have no problem finding another job if I was in such a position, and wouldn't give a notice period either. Some employees have been on Furlough then have ended up being made redundant. We will see more of this in October.
Being on 50% of your pay is not great, so if another job offered a proper (non-furloughed) wage, I'd take it, as I'd be in a better financial position.
Being on 50% of your pay is not great, so if another job offered a proper (non-furloughed) wage, I'd take it, as I'd be in a better financial position.
edc said:
If your salary was £45k and you were full time furloughed then you should not face a 50% pay cut but a 20% cut. If you were flexible furlough the cut would be even less.
Yep that's correct, my error, max furlough is £2,500 and his salary was probably around £3,75033% reduction (before tax)
Wilmslowboy said:
fate complete.
fait accompli?Wilmslowboy said:
Furlough originated in the US (I think) and if I'm right notice periods (either side) are rare in the US ??
Yes, I've been furloughed from my previous job a couple of times. Notice period is usually 2 weeks unless otherwise agreed.Personally if I was in his shoes I wouldn’t give any notice, your company basically st on him to the tune of £1250 a month, how you think it’s acceptable to give him days notice that he is no longer needed on projects and furloughed him with no notice, but expect 3months when it suits you.
Contractually you could go after him for any losses incurred, but morally your company is wrong.
I’m an employer and had a few staff furloughed but ensured they were topped up to 100% salary for the 6 weeks period they were on furlough leave.
t on him to the tune of £1250 a month, how you think it’s acceptable to give him days notice that he is no longer needed on projects and furloughed him with no notice, but expect 3months when it suits you.Contractually you could go after him for any losses incurred, but morally your company is wrong.
I’m an employer and had a few staff furloughed but ensured they were topped up to 100% salary for the 6 weeks period they were on furlough leave.
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