Forced to return to office
Discussion
Hi all, i'm looking for a bit of advice.. I'll try to keep it brief. My OH works for an IT firm and has been happily working from home since March. She had just returned to the office after 1yr maternity leave when they were told to go home and work from home indefinitely.
She was forced to come in to the office today as the company owner had decided to visit and wanted key people in. Grudgingly, and against government advice, she did. She was told in no uncertain terms that she had to phase back in to the office or she'd be demoted to the level of employee that she currently manages.
This makes even less sense because she manages the recruitment team for her company, and her goals have been reset to hire 0 candidates for the remainder of the year. Even if she were in the office, they have banned any office visitors for the remainder of the year. Now, she's in a fortunate position of being kept on and working through this whole period, and there are other things that the team are working on, so it's not like there isn't work to do, but all of it can be done from home.
I have obviously told her to speak to HR and get whatever their demands are in writing, but they (the owners) refuse. We're not talking about a small company here either, it's FTSE250. We're based in Scotland, so the advice has never changed from "you should be working from home if you can".
If she were demoted or fired i would argue she has a strong case for constructive dismissal, but what should her next steps be? She doesn't want to cause a fuss and doesn't want to be out on her ear, so is likely to suck it up and move on. I'm not keen because i think it's an unnecessary health risk to us and our young family. Secondary to that, we'll also have childcare issues as not all of our usual options are currently available to us, and our public transport options right now are pretty poor. Whatever she does, she will still have her life made a misery by the overbearing owners.
Suggestions?
She was forced to come in to the office today as the company owner had decided to visit and wanted key people in. Grudgingly, and against government advice, she did. She was told in no uncertain terms that she had to phase back in to the office or she'd be demoted to the level of employee that she currently manages.
This makes even less sense because she manages the recruitment team for her company, and her goals have been reset to hire 0 candidates for the remainder of the year. Even if she were in the office, they have banned any office visitors for the remainder of the year. Now, she's in a fortunate position of being kept on and working through this whole period, and there are other things that the team are working on, so it's not like there isn't work to do, but all of it can be done from home.
I have obviously told her to speak to HR and get whatever their demands are in writing, but they (the owners) refuse. We're not talking about a small company here either, it's FTSE250. We're based in Scotland, so the advice has never changed from "you should be working from home if you can".
If she were demoted or fired i would argue she has a strong case for constructive dismissal, but what should her next steps be? She doesn't want to cause a fuss and doesn't want to be out on her ear, so is likely to suck it up and move on. I'm not keen because i think it's an unnecessary health risk to us and our young family. Secondary to that, we'll also have childcare issues as not all of our usual options are currently available to us, and our public transport options right now are pretty poor. Whatever she does, she will still have her life made a misery by the overbearing owners.
Suggestions?
i4got said:
If you and your wife are both under 40, then unless you have other contributory factors the statistics show that you and your kids are at virtually zero risk.
This^^^.Keep some perspective. If you are under 65 without any underlying conditions, you are more likely to die in a road traffic accident going to work.
And there is, basically zero risk to your kids.
tty public transport options and difficulty with childcare if Covid wasn’t around.If I were a recruitment manager that was told to recruit zero people for the rest of the year and wanted to keep my job, I'd show up to the office.
Sure, on principle, you could argue that her job is achievable from home and you're probably right. You're also probably right that she can't be forced to return to the office.
But being right as you're staring at your shoes in the job centre doesn't pay money.
Unless you think she would walk into another job, in which case fill your boots.
The health risk to you and your children is minuscule, unless you have other underlying health issues.
If there's a childcare issue, talk to the company and find a compromise. These are unprecedented times, those who communicate and are flexible will come out of it intact.
Sure, on principle, you could argue that her job is achievable from home and you're probably right. You're also probably right that she can't be forced to return to the office.
But being right as you're staring at your shoes in the job centre doesn't pay money.
Unless you think she would walk into another job, in which case fill your boots.
The health risk to you and your children is minuscule, unless you have other underlying health issues.
If there's a childcare issue, talk to the company and find a compromise. These are unprecedented times, those who communicate and are flexible will come out of it intact.
monkfish1 said:
i4got said:
If you and your wife are both under 40, then unless you have other contributory factors the statistics show that you and your kids are at virtually zero risk.
This^^^.Keep some perspective. If you are under 65 without any underlying conditions, you are more likely to die in a road traffic accident going to work.
And there is, basically zero risk to your kids.
Given the government advice is work from home if you can and the owners of said company want to go against that and also not put it in writing suggests that this is probably shaky ground no?
You're right that there is probably little or no risk to us, but the same can't be said of my wider family or our childcare. Without covid our public transport issues don't exist as the buses run regularly and full capacity isn't an issue. Without covid our other childcare option would be able to move back locally (from abroad) and would free up more days.
I'm not here looking for sympathy, i'm looking for advice.. maybe speed plod and the law is the correct forum.
I'm not here looking for sympathy, i'm looking for advice.. maybe speed plod and the law is the correct forum.
Chucklehead said:
Hi all, i'm looking for a bit of advice.. I'll try to keep it brief. My OH works for an IT firm and has been happily working from home since March. She had just returned to the office after 1yr maternity leave when they were told to go home and work from home indefinitely.
She was forced to come in to the office today as the company owner had decided to visit and wanted key people in. Grudgingly, and against government advice, she did. She was told in no uncertain terms that she had to phase back in to the office or she'd be demoted to the level of employee that she currently manages.
This makes even less sense because she manages the recruitment team for her company, and her goals have been reset to hire 0 candidates for the remainder of the year. Even if she were in the office, they have banned any office visitors for the remainder of the year. Now, she's in a fortunate position of being kept on and working through this whole period, and there are other things that the team are working on, so it's not like there isn't work to do, but all of it can be done from home.
I have obviously told her to speak to HR and get whatever their demands are in writing, but they (the owners) refuse. We're not talking about a small company here either, it's FTSE250. We're based in Scotland, so the advice has never changed from "you should be working from home if you can".
If she were demoted or fired i would argue she has a strong case for constructive dismissal, but what should her next steps be? She doesn't want to cause a fuss and doesn't want to be out on her ear, so is likely to suck it up and move on. I'm not keen because i think it's an unnecessary health risk to us and our young family. Secondary to that, we'll also have childcare issues as not all of our usual options are currently available to us, and our public transport options right now are pretty poor. Whatever she does, she will still have her life made a misery by the overbearing owners.
Suggestions?
Suggestions? Imagine the unemployment figures in one years time, do your own maths...She was forced to come in to the office today as the company owner had decided to visit and wanted key people in. Grudgingly, and against government advice, she did. She was told in no uncertain terms that she had to phase back in to the office or she'd be demoted to the level of employee that she currently manages.
This makes even less sense because she manages the recruitment team for her company, and her goals have been reset to hire 0 candidates for the remainder of the year. Even if she were in the office, they have banned any office visitors for the remainder of the year. Now, she's in a fortunate position of being kept on and working through this whole period, and there are other things that the team are working on, so it's not like there isn't work to do, but all of it can be done from home.
I have obviously told her to speak to HR and get whatever their demands are in writing, but they (the owners) refuse. We're not talking about a small company here either, it's FTSE250. We're based in Scotland, so the advice has never changed from "you should be working from home if you can".
If she were demoted or fired i would argue she has a strong case for constructive dismissal, but what should her next steps be? She doesn't want to cause a fuss and doesn't want to be out on her ear, so is likely to suck it up and move on. I'm not keen because i think it's an unnecessary health risk to us and our young family. Secondary to that, we'll also have childcare issues as not all of our usual options are currently available to us, and our public transport options right now are pretty poor. Whatever she does, she will still have her life made a misery by the overbearing owners.
Suggestions?
Chucklehead said:
You're right that there is probably little or no risk to us, but the same can't be said of my wider family or our childcare. Without covid our public transport issues don't exist as the buses run regularly and full capacity isn't an issue. Without covid our other childcare option would be able to move back locally (from abroad) and would free up more days.
I'm not here looking for sympathy, i'm looking for advice.. maybe speed plod and the law is the correct forum.
This isn't really a legal issue per se.I'm not here looking for sympathy, i'm looking for advice.. maybe speed plod and the law is the correct forum.
Legally I'm sure you could build a case justifying working from home, but do you really want to??
Unless your OH works in a sardine tin with another 3 people sitting on her lap, she should just go in.
If you produce legislation showing that she can work from home it won't change anything. You'll probably just find that your OH's job role is fairly soon surplus to requirements.
Unless, as I said before, you think she could walk into something else very easily then fill your boots
Chucklehead said:
I'm not here looking for sympathy, i'm looking for advice.. maybe speed plod and the law is the correct forum.
The legal position is that employers have a duty of care to workers and should carry out COVID-19 risk assessments at the workplace. If they have done that, put the mitigation’s in place then they are fully covered and you should go to the office. She's talking to the CEO and COO. They started the company, floated it on the AIM, then bought it back a decade ago and listed it on the LSE.
We will more than likely end up in a situation where she goes in to the office two days a week. It will cause problems with our childcare as i said, and I'm not comfortable with her relying on the bus to get there as she did before and will have to again. The fact that they aren't willing to put their requests in writing speaks volumes to me, but clearly i'm in the minority.
We will more than likely end up in a situation where she goes in to the office two days a week. It will cause problems with our childcare as i said, and I'm not comfortable with her relying on the bus to get there as she did before and will have to again. The fact that they aren't willing to put their requests in writing speaks volumes to me, but clearly i'm in the minority.
Chucklehead said:
She's talking to the CEO and COO. They started the company, floated it on the AIM, then bought it back a decade ago and listed it on the LSE.
We will more than likely end up in a situation where she goes in to the office two days a week. It will cause problems with our childcare as i said, and I'm not comfortable with her relying on the bus to get there as she did before and will have to again. The fact that they aren't willing to put their requests in writing speaks volumes to me, but clearly i'm in the minority.
Why don’t you buy a little city car to commute in if public transport is a problem ?We will more than likely end up in a situation where she goes in to the office two days a week. It will cause problems with our childcare as i said, and I'm not comfortable with her relying on the bus to get there as she did before and will have to again. The fact that they aren't willing to put their requests in writing speaks volumes to me, but clearly i'm in the minority.
Chucklehead said:
She's talking to the CEO and COO. They started the company, floated it on the AIM, then bought it back a decade ago and listed it on the LSE.
We will more than likely end up in a situation where she goes in to the office two days a week. It will cause problems with our childcare as i said, and I'm not comfortable with her relying on the bus to get there as she did before and will have to again. The fact that they aren't willing to put their requests in writing speaks volumes to me, but clearly i'm in the minority.
What were your arrangements for childcare pre covid then?We will more than likely end up in a situation where she goes in to the office two days a week. It will cause problems with our childcare as i said, and I'm not comfortable with her relying on the bus to get there as she did before and will have to again. The fact that they aren't willing to put their requests in writing speaks volumes to me, but clearly i'm in the minority.
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