Virtual Xmas Party - drinks delivery to team

[DanCup]

Hi All,

Like many this year I'm trying to sort out some form of drinks with my team this Christmas. It's not going to be possible to meet so I'm looking for a solution (if there is one) where I can provide a link to the individuals to choose their own booze and put in the delivery address they want it sent to, then I can foot the bill at the end and all the deliveries are sent ahead of the actual day.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Not fussed on a party box or anything so even some sort of alcohol/Amazon type thing would be great.

Cheers

[klan8456]

As I understand it, this is likely to be considered a benefit in kind and they’ll have to pay tax on it.

[vaud]

You would need to check with hmrc if a virtual party would fall under this:

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits-social-functi...

[bigandclever]

klan8456 said:

As I understand it, this is likely to be considered a benefit in kind and they’ll have to pay tax on it.

The BIK rules for a Xmas party (other annual events are available) are pretty straight-forward though, only the OP knows if it applies .. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits-social-functi...

Is it going to be too complex to just have a google sheet online that people fill their requirements into, and then you just go to your online merchant of choice and create how ever many orders? Probably need more detail on numbers of people, how prescriptive you want the choices to be, how much you’re spending, etc etc.

[anonymous-user]

Simply allow the team to buy their own ale and claim as an expense, no BIK or tax implication.

[DanCup]

What's the difference between this and buying drinks on a night out - this is for a night in...? This isn't sarcasm by the way, I'm genuinely curious

[DanCup]

Lord.Vader said:

Simply allow the team to buy their own ale and claim as an expense, no BIK or tax implication.

That was actually the original plan however I was just trying to simplify the process so A) they didn't have to complete expenses and B) I then didn't have to approve each one!

[DanCup]

bigandclever said:

The BIK rules for a Xmas party (other annual events are available) are pretty straight-forward though, only the OP knows if it applies .. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits-social-functi...

Is it going to be too complex to just have a google sheet online that people fill their requirements into, and then you just go to your online merchant of choice and create how ever many orders? Probably need more detail on numbers of people, how prescriptive you want the choices to be, how much you’re spending, etc etc.

Really useful thanks. It's a department Xmas "party", 23 of us and the annual company gig has been cancelled due to obvious reasons. As such, £50 p/h has been allocated to this and the rest is being donated to charity.

[klan8456]

It’s a complete nightmare this year logistically / taxation-wise and legally, and so every (large) company I know has just cancelled plans entirely.

For those more legally minded, what are the duty of care implications of delivering alcohol to an employees apartment? What if they drink too much / too quickly, pass out and choke to death? In a licensed establishment the licensee would have responsibility for RSA - who takes that responsibility for a virtual work event taking place at home?

As to the tax implications, presumably ordering 1 x 50£ bottle of wine would be fine, as it could be consumed during the course of the virtual party, but 10x 5£ bottles would fall foul?

Probably also best to ensure non-alcoholic options are available, lest anyone feel pressured. Drinking is not a diverse / inclusive activity, and we are constantly being reminded of this and to find other alternatives.

Good on your company though, £50 a head is a massive budget!

Edited by klan8456 on Saturday 28th November 16:15

[Beetnik]

As part of fulfilling their duty of care to their employees, employers should consider whether a specific risk assessment is required to deal with the risks posed in any particular situation. I'd suggest that providing employees, home alone and with no direct supervision, with £50 worth of hooch poses some obvious risks. So what does your risk assessment conclude?

[Countdown]

klan8456 said:

As I understand it, this is likely to be considered a benefit in kind and they’ll have to pay tax on it.

HMRC rules have changed.

We are planning something similar. there will be an all-day Zoom meeting arranged that people can jump into / jump out of as they see fit (which will be the Virtual Party), and staff will get some kind of hamper which they can enjoy whenever they want. It might be a hamper but we might send out vouchers instead - the reason being Vegetarians/Vegans/Pescatarians/Teetotallers can be quite hard to accommodate everybody so the thinking is we'll just let them do their own shopping from wherever and they can claim back £40 via expenses.

[Countdown]

Beetnik said:

As part of fulfilling their duty of care to their employees, employers should consider whether a specific risk assessment is required to deal with the risks posed in any particular situation. I'd suggest that providing employees, home alone and with no direct supervision, with £50 worth of hooch poses some obvious risks. So what does your risk assessment conclude?

How is it more than if they were in a hotel? Staff Xmas parties aren't monitored/chaperoned in any way. People know the rules and they know what will happen if they're stupid. I

[Countdown]

Lord.Vader said:

Simply allow the team to buy their own ale and claim as an expense, no BIK or tax implication.

Buying food/drink for consumption at home isn't allowable for tax purposes. However there's a separate rule about trivial benefits (anything less than £50 isn't taxable). Im not sure how the 2 rules interact with each other.

[Drumroll]

Beetnik said:

As part of fulfilling their duty of care to their employees, employers should consider whether a specific risk assessment is required to deal with the risks posed in any particular situation. I'd suggest that providing employees, home alone and with no direct supervision, with £50 worth of hooch poses some obvious risks. So what does your risk assessment conclude?

My risk assessment would say it poses no additional risk.

[Drumroll]

DanCup said:

Hi All,

Like many this year I'm trying to sort out some form of drinks with my team this Christmas. It's not going to be possible to meet so I'm looking for a solution (if there is one) where I can provide a link to the individuals to choose their own booze and put in the delivery address they want it sent to, then I can foot the bill at the end and all the deliveries are sent ahead of the actual day.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Not fussed on a party box or anything so even some sort of alcohol/Amazon type thing would be great.

Cheers

So the question is are you personally buying your team some Christmas booze or are you doing it through the company?

I used to take my team out for a carvery with a couple of soft drinks. or like you if we couldn't meet up a few bottles of beer etc for them all. But it was always my treat, my thank you to the team. The only thing I ran past my boss was the extra hour's lunch when we went for a carvery.

[Beetnik]

Drumroll said:

My risk assessment would say it poses no additional risk.

And I'm sure the beak will take that into consideration when your work buddy has choked to death on his own vomit having consumed the 48 cans of Guinness which you provided him with.

[55palfers]

Beetnik said:

As part of fulfilling their duty of care to their employees, employers should consider whether a specific risk assessment is required to deal with the risks posed in any particular situation. I'd suggest that providing employees, home alone and with no direct supervision, with £50 worth of hooch poses some obvious risks. So what does your risk assessment conclude?

I'd say that they won't be "at work" whilst consuming the alcohol. The hazards of over indulgence are well known and understood.

They will also all be over 18 I suspect. Adults in the eyes of the law.

[Countdown]

Beetnik said:

Drumroll said:

My risk assessment would say it poses no additional risk.

And I'm sure the beak will take that into consideration when your work buddy has choked to death on his own vomit having consumed the 48 cans of Guinness which you provided him with.

How will drumroll end up in front of the beak in the first place? Choking on your own vomit isn't a criminal offence....

[klan8456]

Countdown said:

Beetnik said:

Drumroll said:

My risk assessment would say it poses no additional risk.

And I'm sure the beak will take that into consideration when your work buddy has choked to death on his own vomit having consumed the 48 cans of Guinness which you provided him with.

How will drumroll end up in front of the beak in the first place? Choking on your own vomit isn't a criminal offence....

Breach of duty of care / negligence.

I wanted to seek a learned opinion from a friend of mine who is a magic circle lawyer and who I know has been doing virtual client wine tastings this year. Notes below:

“Hi mate, putting aside taxation and other issues, purely from a duty of care perspective I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with providing a £50 budget for staff to spend as they see fit. There really needs to be a limit on the quantity of alcohol delivered and it needs to be a non-lethal dose for the lowest common denominator. A safe option would be to stick to what the govt. says is the maximum safe daily intake.

You’re right we have been doing tastings this year, but wine is supplied only as 150ml bottles of 3 varieties, so about half a bottle per person in total.

The concern is about over-indulgence, someone Bon Scotting themselves, or falling through a glass coffee table etc. Without anyone present to supervise, the liability increases and these events are seen as an extension of the workplace.

Just to finish: honestly they’re probably better steering clear entirely; even to land on the tasting solution took weeks of negotiation and was very difficult to get signed off internally. Stick to food, is my (free - and you get what you pay for) advice!

Best”

[Countdown]

klan8456 said:

Breach of duty of care / negligence.

I wanted to seek a learned opinion from a friend of mine who is a magic circle lawyer and who I know has been doing virtual client wine tastings this year. Notes below:

“Hi mate, putting aside taxation and other issues, purely from a duty of care perspective I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with providing a £50 budget for staff to spend as they see fit. There really needs to be a limit on the quantity of alcohol delivered and it needs to be a non-lethal dose for the lowest common denominator. A safe option would be to stick to what the govt. says is the maximum safe daily intake.

You’re right we have been doing tastings this year, but wine is supplied only as 150ml bottles of 3 varieties, so about half a bottle per person in total.

The concern is about over-indulgence, someone Bon Scotting themselves, or falling through a glass coffee table etc. Without anyone present to supervise, the liability increases and these events are seen as an extension of the workplace.

Just to finish: honestly they’re probably better steering clear entirely; even to land on the tasting solution took weeks of negotiation and was very difficult to get signed off internally. Stick to food, is my (free - and you get what you pay for) advice!

Best”

We pay staff each month £x. Each month they go and buy food and quite probably alcoholic drink with that. Could you ask your Learned friend whether we're liable if they choke on 73 Melton Mowbray pies? Should we update our Staff Code of Conduct to say "Melton Mowbray pork pies are to be purchased at owners' risk?

Alcohol isnt being provided by the Employer (at least not in our case). If we give them money and they use it to buy 48 cans of Guinness that's their lookout