Overcrowded site work
Discussion
Nothing to do with covid or anything else like that but I seem to be in the minority at getting pissed off when small sites like a domestic house are overrun with tradesmen. Our job at the minute is in an unoccupied 3 bed terraced house, for a start all the parking is permit only on the roads outside yet today there were 3 decorators, 3 joiners, 2 general builders and me and my mate, on top of that every tradesman seems to have brought every single thing out of the van with them into the house. Thats 9 people working inside a small house with everyone getting in each others way.
Now this is a small house with small rooms and we need to do things like get the floor up to install wiring in various places, yet joiners are fitting flooring downstairs that we cant stand on, a builder is casting the cellar steps which is where the fuse box is and the decorators are painting all of upstairs and the fitted wardrobes so all of the internal bits of the wardrobes are all over the floor covered in wet paint.
I decided to fit some LED lighting in the en-suite as it was the only room that didn't have someone in and within 10 minutes some bloke turned up to investigate the shower valve in there.
This is just one example of the many like this we are faced with, I just can't fathom why any builder or home owners want everyone on site together, it must slow the job down so much and cost 10 times as much in the long run. I went home in the end as it took me 3 hours to fit the LEDs, should have been a 30 minute job. Everyone else on the job just says hey ho thats how it is and they are quite prepared to stand around all day waiting if they are getting paid for it, I am uneasy with that, if I'm not doing anything I want to be at home and there is no way I could possibly charge a full days pay for a 30 minute job but no-one else has a problem with it, the decorator must have painted each room 4 or 5 times now due to damage and alterations.
I think this job has pissed me off more than most because we have took over the electrics from an absolute idiot that won't go back to finish them and everything he has done is woefully terrible, probably why he wont go back. Its not just the electrics either that are bad, every aspect of the job is and is having to be re-done. The bloke looking at the shower valve said it has been piped in wrong and the tiles will have to come off. A lot of the plumbing had to be re-done and the boiler replaced yet the original builder is still on site. Think he is desperate to get the job finished but is getting deeper and deeper.
Now this is a small house with small rooms and we need to do things like get the floor up to install wiring in various places, yet joiners are fitting flooring downstairs that we cant stand on, a builder is casting the cellar steps which is where the fuse box is and the decorators are painting all of upstairs and the fitted wardrobes so all of the internal bits of the wardrobes are all over the floor covered in wet paint.
I decided to fit some LED lighting in the en-suite as it was the only room that didn't have someone in and within 10 minutes some bloke turned up to investigate the shower valve in there.
This is just one example of the many like this we are faced with, I just can't fathom why any builder or home owners want everyone on site together, it must slow the job down so much and cost 10 times as much in the long run. I went home in the end as it took me 3 hours to fit the LEDs, should have been a 30 minute job. Everyone else on the job just says hey ho thats how it is and they are quite prepared to stand around all day waiting if they are getting paid for it, I am uneasy with that, if I'm not doing anything I want to be at home and there is no way I could possibly charge a full days pay for a 30 minute job but no-one else has a problem with it, the decorator must have painted each room 4 or 5 times now due to damage and alterations.
I think this job has pissed me off more than most because we have took over the electrics from an absolute idiot that won't go back to finish them and everything he has done is woefully terrible, probably why he wont go back. Its not just the electrics either that are bad, every aspect of the job is and is having to be re-done. The bloke looking at the shower valve said it has been piped in wrong and the tiles will have to come off. A lot of the plumbing had to be re-done and the boiler replaced yet the original builder is still on site. Think he is desperate to get the job finished but is getting deeper and deeper.
- yes I know I'm lucky to still have a job and be able to get out and about each day but sometimes I wish I was furloughed and could stay at home and away from the chaos.
Not just domestic!
Site I'm on at the moment introduced a new programme giving every trade just one week to 1st fix a wing of the build.
Rather than space us out, 1 week sparks in wing A, then wing B etc. No! Just cram us all on one wing with podiums ffs!
I'm done with site work, I can earn easier money, just getting this one out the way then sticking to existing installs.
Site I'm on at the moment introduced a new programme giving every trade just one week to 1st fix a wing of the build.
Rather than space us out, 1 week sparks in wing A, then wing B etc. No! Just cram us all on one wing with podiums ffs!
I'm done with site work, I can earn easier money, just getting this one out the way then sticking to existing installs.
surveyor said:
I suspect everyone is rushing to make a finish date of pre 1st April. Things will probably calm down then.
It could be, the closer we get to April though we try and slow it down to get paid in the next financial year, you would be bananas to get paid 10K on April 5th when just one minute later you could defer a big tax bill for 12 months.There was another big leak on our job today, its getting comical now. I really do feel sorry for the home owner though, he has the money to pay for a decent job but just can't get one. I don't even blame the builder to be fair, he simply can't get anyone decent to do the job. I said similar to this in a thread earlier this year - everyone on this site I'm on is old(ish), painters are 40+, plumber is 44, I'm 49, the joiners are all over 40 by the looks of them, I haven't seen a 20 year old apprentice for yonks. Its really sad and stupid.
My metalwork teacher blew himself up with the brazing hearth but was back teaching kids the next day, todays teachers tell kids they can be a beautiful influencer if they want to,
s. scottyp123 said:
Nothing to do with covid or anything else like that but I seem to be in the minority at getting pissed off when small sites like a domestic house are overrun with tradesmen. Our job at the minute is in an unoccupied 3 bed terraced house, for a start all the parking is permit only on the roads outside yet today there were 3 decorators, 3 joiners, 2 general builders and me and my mate, on top of that every tradesman seems to have brought every single thing out of the van with them into the house. Thats 9 people working inside a small house with everyone getting in each others way.
Now this is a small house with small rooms and we need to do things like get the floor up to install wiring in various places, yet joiners are fitting flooring downstairs that we cant stand on, a builder is casting the cellar steps which is where the fuse box is and the decorators are painting all of upstairs and the fitted wardrobes so all of the internal bits of the wardrobes are all over the floor covered in wet paint.
I decided to fit some LED lighting in the en-suite as it was the only room that didn't have someone in and within 10 minutes some bloke turned up to investigate the shower valve in there.
This is just one example of the many like this we are faced with, I just can't fathom why any builder or home owners want everyone on site together, it must slow the job down so much and cost 10 times as much in the long run. I went home in the end as it took me 3 hours to fit the LEDs, should have been a 30 minute job. Everyone else on the job just says hey ho thats how it is and they are quite prepared to stand around all day waiting if they are getting paid for it, I am uneasy with that, if I'm not doing anything I want to be at home and there is no way I could possibly charge a full days pay for a 30 minute job but no-one else has a problem with it, the decorator must have painted each room 4 or 5 times now due to damage and alterations.
I think this job has pissed me off more than most because we have took over the electrics from an absolute idiot that won't go back to finish them and everything he has done is woefully terrible, probably why he wont go back. Its not just the electrics either that are bad, every aspect of the job is and is having to be re-done. The bloke looking at the shower valve said it has been piped in wrong and the tiles will have to come off. A lot of the plumbing had to be re-done and the boiler replaced yet the original builder is still on site. Think he is desperate to get the job finished but is getting deeper and deeper.
You seem to be blaming the Builder or homeowners yet every complaint seems to be about the trades. Bad Sparky, bad plumbing, everyone getting all their crap out of their vans & dumping it around the house. It's funny how whichever trade you speak to all the others have bad practices that screw up their job!Now this is a small house with small rooms and we need to do things like get the floor up to install wiring in various places, yet joiners are fitting flooring downstairs that we cant stand on, a builder is casting the cellar steps which is where the fuse box is and the decorators are painting all of upstairs and the fitted wardrobes so all of the internal bits of the wardrobes are all over the floor covered in wet paint.
I decided to fit some LED lighting in the en-suite as it was the only room that didn't have someone in and within 10 minutes some bloke turned up to investigate the shower valve in there.
This is just one example of the many like this we are faced with, I just can't fathom why any builder or home owners want everyone on site together, it must slow the job down so much and cost 10 times as much in the long run. I went home in the end as it took me 3 hours to fit the LEDs, should have been a 30 minute job. Everyone else on the job just says hey ho thats how it is and they are quite prepared to stand around all day waiting if they are getting paid for it, I am uneasy with that, if I'm not doing anything I want to be at home and there is no way I could possibly charge a full days pay for a 30 minute job but no-one else has a problem with it, the decorator must have painted each room 4 or 5 times now due to damage and alterations.
I think this job has pissed me off more than most because we have took over the electrics from an absolute idiot that won't go back to finish them and everything he has done is woefully terrible, probably why he wont go back. Its not just the electrics either that are bad, every aspect of the job is and is having to be re-done. The bloke looking at the shower valve said it has been piped in wrong and the tiles will have to come off. A lot of the plumbing had to be re-done and the boiler replaced yet the original builder is still on site. Think he is desperate to get the job finished but is getting deeper and deeper.
- yes I know I'm lucky to still have a job and be able to get out and about each day but sometimes I wish I was furloughed and could stay at home and away from the chaos.
As for their being no apprentices well, every trade wants to be a one-man-band earning 1000 quid a day & don't want to train anyone...... hope I haven;t offended you.
scottyp123 said:
todays teachers tell kids they can be a beautiful influencer if they want to
I have however quoted one particular comment and would like to add that I see that comment as a touch unfair. If was said in jest then fair enough, but in my experience, the kids already have this in their head rather than the teachers promoting it.
CHARLESBERG said:
scottyp123 said:
todays teachers tell kids they can be a beautiful influencer if they want to
I have however quoted one particular comment and would like to add that I see that comment as a touch unfair. If was said in jest then fair enough, but in my experience, the kids already have this in their head rather than the teachers promoting it.
We were there again today and it was a bit quieter but the joiners were putting the oak floor down in the middle room, we were working in both the kitchen and upstairs so needed to go between the two areas. Instead of taking about 6 steps and 2 seconds we had to go out the back patio doors, out the back gate, down the passage way, turn and go down another passage way, back down the pavement and then in through the front door and then back again. Everyone must have made that journey today about 20 times, all getting paid for doing it as well. Very Bizarre.
My second bit of the rant was just about generally how crap a lot of tradesmen are nowadays and there doesn't seem to be very many young people coming though the trades. We've tried ourselves with a couple of young lads and it was a bad experience to be honest, I've asked a few tradesmen why they work alone and not have a young lad with them, most look horrified and say never again. I'm not really sure what is going on with the schools to be truthful, do they still do things like metalwork and woodwork in schools? From age 13 onwards we were using things like metal lathes, milling machines and oxy-acetylene welding torches, anyone of them could have seen you off in an instant if you didn't give them your full attention. We got taught commerce as well, do they still teach kids about money/credit/interest rates? What do they teach kids to become when they are older these days.
- Just an addendum, I took the plinth off a unit in the cellar today and noticed the saniflow was pissing out everywhere so thats yet another leak on this job, but no-one is perfect I suppose, I dropped a brand new ceiling sensor down the toilet today.
scottyp123 said:
surveyor said:
I suspect everyone is rushing to make a finish date of pre 1st April. Things will probably calm down then.
It could be, the closer we get to April though we try and slow it down to get paid in the next financial year, you would be bananas to get paid 10K on April 5th when just one minute later you could defer a big tax bill for 12 months.There was another big leak on our job today, its getting comical now. I really do feel sorry for the home owner though, he has the money to pay for a decent job but just can't get one. I don't even blame the builder to be fair, he simply can't get anyone decent to do the job. I said similar to this in a thread earlier this year - everyone on this site I'm on is old(ish), painters are 40+, plumber is 44, I'm 49, the joiners are all over 40 by the looks of them, I haven't seen a 20 year old apprentice for yonks. Its really sad and stupid.
My metalwork teacher blew himself up with the brazing hearth but was back teaching kids the next day, todays teachers tell kids they can be a beautiful influencer if they want to,
s. Google the "New Deal for Construction" and the "Transforming Construction Challenge" if you want to know more.
If I had kids of school leaving age, I'd be telling them to join the trades. They'll be quids-in! Electricians will soon be like COBOL programmers...
scottyp123 said:
My second bit of the rant was just about generally how crap a lot of tradesmen are nowadays and there doesn't seem to be very many young people coming though the trades. We've tried ourselves with a couple of young lads and it was a bad experience to be honest, I've asked a few tradesmen why they work alone and not have a young lad with them, most look horrified and say never again. I'm not really sure what is going on with the schools to be truthful, do they still do things like metalwork and woodwork in schools? From age 13 onwards we were using things like metal lathes, milling machines and oxy-acetylene welding torches, any one of them could have seen you off in an instant if you didn't give them your full attention. We got taught commerce as well, do they still teach kids about money/credit/interest rates? What do they teach kids to become when they are older these days.
Spot on Scotty. Many tradesmen are poor & lack the organisational skills to manage a piss up in a brewery, yet will happily slag of anybody who does try to organise them to be effective. Late last year I had a few odd jobs needed doing round the house. A kid, wife's son knew said he could do them as he was working for a builder as an apprentice & knew how to do things. I don't know what he'd been taught but didn't have a clue about the basics of construction or how to use a tape measure.
GT03ROB said:
scottyp123 said:
Nothing to do with covid or anything else like that but I seem to be in the minority at getting pissed off when small sites like a domestic house are overrun with tradesmen. Our job at the minute is in an unoccupied 3 bed terraced house, for a start all the parking is permit only on the roads outside yet today there were 3 decorators, 3 joiners, 2 general builders and me and my mate, on top of that every tradesman seems to have brought every single thing out of the van with them into the house. Thats 9 people working inside a small house with everyone getting in each others way.
Now this is a small house with small rooms and we need to do things like get the floor up to install wiring in various places, yet joiners are fitting flooring downstairs that we cant stand on, a builder is casting the cellar steps which is where the fuse box is and the decorators are painting all of upstairs and the fitted wardrobes so all of the internal bits of the wardrobes are all over the floor covered in wet paint.
I decided to fit some LED lighting in the en-suite as it was the only room that didn't have someone in and within 10 minutes some bloke turned up to investigate the shower valve in there.
This is just one example of the many like this we are faced with, I just can't fathom why any builder or home owners want everyone on site together, it must slow the job down so much and cost 10 times as much in the long run. I went home in the end as it took me 3 hours to fit the LEDs, should have been a 30 minute job. Everyone else on the job just says hey ho thats how it is and they are quite prepared to stand around all day waiting if they are getting paid for it, I am uneasy with that, if I'm not doing anything I want to be at home and there is no way I could possibly charge a full days pay for a 30 minute job but no-one else has a problem with it, the decorator must have painted each room 4 or 5 times now due to damage and alterations.
I think this job has pissed me off more than most because we have took over the electrics from an absolute idiot that won't go back to finish them and everything he has done is woefully terrible, probably why he wont go back. Its not just the electrics either that are bad, every aspect of the job is and is having to be re-done. The bloke looking at the shower valve said it has been piped in wrong and the tiles will have to come off. A lot of the plumbing had to be re-done and the boiler replaced yet the original builder is still on site. Think he is desperate to get the job finished but is getting deeper and deeper.
You seem to be blaming the Builder or homeowners yet every complaint seems to be about the trades. Bad Sparky, bad plumbing, everyone getting all their crap out of their vans & dumping it around the house. It's funny how whichever trade you speak to all the others have bad practices that screw up their job!Now this is a small house with small rooms and we need to do things like get the floor up to install wiring in various places, yet joiners are fitting flooring downstairs that we cant stand on, a builder is casting the cellar steps which is where the fuse box is and the decorators are painting all of upstairs and the fitted wardrobes so all of the internal bits of the wardrobes are all over the floor covered in wet paint.
I decided to fit some LED lighting in the en-suite as it was the only room that didn't have someone in and within 10 minutes some bloke turned up to investigate the shower valve in there.
This is just one example of the many like this we are faced with, I just can't fathom why any builder or home owners want everyone on site together, it must slow the job down so much and cost 10 times as much in the long run. I went home in the end as it took me 3 hours to fit the LEDs, should have been a 30 minute job. Everyone else on the job just says hey ho thats how it is and they are quite prepared to stand around all day waiting if they are getting paid for it, I am uneasy with that, if I'm not doing anything I want to be at home and there is no way I could possibly charge a full days pay for a 30 minute job but no-one else has a problem with it, the decorator must have painted each room 4 or 5 times now due to damage and alterations.
I think this job has pissed me off more than most because we have took over the electrics from an absolute idiot that won't go back to finish them and everything he has done is woefully terrible, probably why he wont go back. Its not just the electrics either that are bad, every aspect of the job is and is having to be re-done. The bloke looking at the shower valve said it has been piped in wrong and the tiles will have to come off. A lot of the plumbing had to be re-done and the boiler replaced yet the original builder is still on site. Think he is desperate to get the job finished but is getting deeper and deeper.
- yes I know I'm lucky to still have a job and be able to get out and about each day but sometimes I wish I was furloughed and could stay at home and away from the chaos.
As for their being no apprentices well, every trade wants to be a one-man-band earning 1000 quid a day & don't want to train anyone...... hope I haven;t offended you.
It does make me laugh when old people complain about kids being useless. Its their generation that is teaching them!
GT03ROB said:
48Valves said:
I can't understand why a youngster wouldn't want to work with people like the OP? Or in the conditions described.
It does make me laugh when old people complain about kids being useless. Its their generation that is teaching them!
It's character building!It does make me laugh when old people complain about kids being useless. Its their generation that is teaching them!
I started a young lad before Christmas that had hardly done anything since leaving school a few years before.
He can’t read a tape measure, has hardly any strength for lifting things, doesn’t have a clue what any tool is called and turns up with a lunch bag everyday that would feed me for a week.
He is however always up when I pick him up, polite with customers and is trying to learn what I teach him.
At the moment it’s obviously costing me time and money to show him things, but hopefully over the next few years he will learn the job and get up to speed.
He can’t read a tape measure, has hardly any strength for lifting things, doesn’t have a clue what any tool is called and turns up with a lunch bag everyday that would feed me for a week.
He is however always up when I pick him up, polite with customers and is trying to learn what I teach him.
At the moment it’s obviously costing me time and money to show him things, but hopefully over the next few years he will learn the job and get up to speed.
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