Just been fired

[ThrowawayAccount676]

Details removed

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Thursday 25th February 14:19

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Friday 26th February 08:36

[Sheets Tabuer]

4) with a global pandemic securing contracts has been tough especially in a startup so I've decided to explore other options

As you day if your boss (mate) is going to give you a reference I wouldn't worry.

[Johnnytheboy]

Two years or just under?

[Jasandjules]

Get a copy of the reference now. Otherwise you may want to engage in WP discussions for a number of reasons including having an agreed reference in the Settlement Agreement which would be the only thing they would be allowed to say to any prospective employer.

[ThrowawayAccount676]

Thanks Sheets,

Good advice, thanks for getting through that wall of text

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Thursday 25th February 14:20

[Aunty Pasty]

Hi, Sorry to hear about your situation and I know it's a bad and awkward position to be in but try to take some positives from this.

At the risk of seeming to use this to relate some tedious anecdote of mine I was in a similar situation once several years ago.

I was let go after a 3 month probation because I didn't gel with the role and I didn't fit in with what they wanted. At the time it felt absolutely awful and I questioned my long term career direction. In the end I carried on but I had a long think about what went wrong in this case.
I had moved from a large old school multinational company to a software tech startup. The change was a massive culture shock with a new language, new platform, new processes etc. One of the processes they had was to do Pair Programming which I couldn't get on with at all. I absolutely hated it and I think it was this that was the tipping point.

In subsequent interviews I used this as the reason why my tenure was so short there and I also learnt that you shouldn't need to be great at everything or even pretend to be.I also learnt to be more straight up about what you knew or didn't know and not just say what you think they want to hear.

So my advice is not to be too hard on yourself and try to use this episode as a learning experience and an opportunity to learn more about yourself.

[Sheets Tabuer]

First thing and I know this is all new but I'd stop worrying.

Just put your mate down as a referee.

[z4RRSchris]

references normally confirm when they started, when you left and your job title. thats it.

[anonymous-user]

What date did you start and when were you fired?

[ThrowawayAccount676]

Thanks for all the support guys, was half expecting a roasting - been a member on here for a long time, it's times like this I remember why.

Johnnytheboy said:

Two years or just under?

Just over, weirdly.

Jasandjules said:

Get a copy of the reference now. Otherwise you may want to engage in WP discussions for a number of reasons including having an agreed reference in the Settlement Agreement which would be the only thing they would be allowed to say to any prospective employer.

Thanks, always solid advice Jasandjules.

Can you clarrify what you mean but getting a copy of the reference now, I'd normally just put a contact down for my reference with a phone number?

I've not some across an agreed Settlement Agreement before. I assume this would be a legally binding statement / document stating the reference they would give. Would the smartest one to agree to be something along the lines of.

"As company policy we only confirm the name and dates of employment"? I know this was policy in a larger company I worked for.

One last question Jasandjules, assuming the above is the case how best should I approach the question "why did you leave your last role"?

Is Sheets #4 option the way to go, essentially mislead the interviewer?

If they push me on this should I lie and say I left?

Aunty Pasty said:

Great advice

Thanks fella, sounds super similar to my experience.

Sorry, lots of questions - thanks again for the support.

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Wednesday 24th February 13:56

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Thursday 25th February 14:03

[anonymous-user]

If there has been no prior process, it sounds as if you could have been unfairly dismissed. Jasandjules is your man. Get some advice. You're possibly due a windfall.

[ThrowawayAccount676]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

If there has been no prior process, it sounds as if you could have been unfairly dismissed. Jasandjules is your man. Get some advice. You're possibly due a windfall.

You're echoing what several friends have said. I work in a industry which isn't that huge - lots of people know eachother. I'd worry that while I might get a payout it would do damage to my career as future employers might be wary of hiring me if I dragged my last one through the courts.

Had one job I left before I was pushed where there was a big clash with the MD who was an utter bellend. He fabricated evidence to give me a written warning, wish I'd dragged them over the coals but don't feel motivated to go after this bunch as I do like them and viewed them as friends which makes things both easier and harder.

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Thursday 25th February 14:21

[anonymous-user]

If you've been there for longer than 2 years you have protections from summary dismissal. Take advice. IANAL, but the chances of it going to tribunal are very small, as they'd likely settle with you before it gets anywhere near there.

Your attitude that it's your fault is commendable in pragmatism, but the reality is if it got bad enough to justify firing you, management have failed in their jobs managing you. It isn't right for them to rock up one day and say you're fired.

[ThrowawayAccount676]

Just did some Googling.

[quote]
What is the average payout for unfair dismissal UK?
Whilst the very high awards usually grab the headlines, the average award for an unfair dismissal claim was £15,007, with the median award being only £8,015. The highest award in a discrimination claim was £242,130 which was awarded for disability discrimination.

[/quote]

It's a nice sum of money but a drop in the ocean compared to what I'll earn over the course of my career - I'm sure news like this would travel and just draw attention something I'm acutely embarrassed about and would definetly harm my chances of local employment.

Edited by ThrowawayAccount676 on Thursday 25th February 14:21

[sutoka]

Too late to hammer frozen sausages into the bosses lawn?

In all seriousness, being sacked on the spot when you have dedicated two years of your life to slogging it for the company will be a shock to anyone. Just keep your nerve and stay professional.

I have seen many people that have been sacked not because they were useless but because the manager took a instant dislike to them They storm out in a rage and make all kinds of threats and accusations, some of it might have been true but without evidence it's meaningless.

I've seen people take companies and superiors to a tribunal and they spend months preparing and obsessing over things and it when it gets to the big day, it's all thrown out.

My advice would be take a few days off and do something productive, stay positive and leave your old job in the past, onward and upward.

Edited by sutoka on Wednesday 24th February 14:13

[anonymous-user]

ThrowawayAccount676 said:

It's a nice sum of money but a drop in the ocean compared to what I'll earn over the course of my career - I'm sure news like this would travel and just draw attention something I'm acutely embarrassed about and would definetly harm my chances of local employment.

Rather spend my time finishing off my tech blog and getting that live along with writing some decent articles for it, maybe doing some open source stuff for a few weeks. Get back to enjoying coding without the pressure and increase my attractiveness to employers.

It wouldn't normally be a claim and a big public process. It would be a negotiation with your (former) employer that says you've been unfairly dismissed and that you're willing to enter a formal settlement in lieu of a claim. That settlement would be confidential and include and agreed reference.

I get what you're saying about small world, but that goes both ways. If employers get a reputation for illegally firing established staff, it will be difficult to get good employees. My experience of these kind of situations is they don't get publicised.

[Mr Pointy]

ThrowawayAccount676 said:

It's a nice sum of money but a drop in the ocean compared to what I'll earn over the course of my career - I'm sure news like this would travel and just draw attention something I'm acutely embarrassed about and would definetly harm my chances of local employment.

Rather spend my time finishing off my tech blog and getting that live along with writing some decent articles for it, maybe doing some open source stuff for a few weeks. Get back to enjoying coding without the pressure and increase my attractiveness to employers.

Any chance you can go back to them & ask to be allowed to resign rather than be dismissed (on the same terms of course)? At least then you can legitimately formulate an explaination when asked why you left in future interviews.

[valiant]

Surely as you’ve been there over (just) two years you have the right to appeal?

Looks to me like they may have made an error in your employment dates with regards to the two years. Summary dismissal is usually for baaaaad things. Have you had any warnings prior, either verbal or written? Have you been performance managed at all?

Seems a little shady to me but J&J is your man.

[Jasandjules]

ThrowawayAccount676 said:

Can you clarrify what you mean but getting a copy of the reference now, I'd normally just put a contact down for my reference with a phone number?

I've not some across an agreed Settlement Agreement before. I assume this would be a legally binding statement / document stating the reference they would give. Would the smartest one to agree to be something along the lines of.

"As company policy we only confirm the name and dates of employment"? I know this was policy in a larger company I worked for.

One last question Jasandjules, assuming the above is the case how best should I approach the question "why did you leave your last role"?

Is Sheets #4 option the way to go, essentially mislead the interviewer?

If they push me on this should I lie and say I left?

What I mean is to ask your "friend" for a pro-forma reference right now to ensure you have it in your hands and know what it will say. Once you have that you can potentially be more relaxed. However IME managers who will "totally, completely and no problem at all provide a supportive reference" do not do so because HR can/will step in and say all references must come from them. It may not be the case in your company but still, better safe than sorry in the circumstances you set out in your OP.

Yes it is a contractual agreement that you sign away your rights to sue them for every potential claim under the sun (there are a few exceptions but I won't bore with details) in exchange for money/agreed reference etc..

If that standard reference is exactly what would be provided then that is also fine but I am rather belts and braces and I would ask HR to confirm in writing that is the case, if you don't want to pursue anything else...

And I can never suggest you mislead the interviewer, it can be a matter which could lead to your dismissal. Unlikely yes, but still a possible. Of course, I decided I needed to pursue new options is not inaccurate...... I mean, you did, because your old option was no longer available.............

[Red9zero]

z4RRSchris said:

references normally confirm when they started, when you left and your job title. thats it.

WHS. I rarely see a reason for leaving on a reference.