Holiday calculation

[Wing Commander]

Hi all

I think I need to tighten up on the wording in the contracts for my employees, for holiday allowance as its not clear (evidenced by the fact that I do not even know if I have worded it correctly).

So, most of my staff work 5 days a week so its not really an issue, but one of them works Monday - Thursday.

Contracts say:

"During each holiday year, the employee is entitled to the 28 days paid leave, such entitlement accruing on a pro-rata basis (Bank and Public Holidays are included in the calculation of the employee's paid annual leave)"

So, we recently had the Good Friday. Does this count within the holiday entitlement, even though she didn't work that day?

I should, and will, update contracts for new starters which say 20 days plus bank holidays, to make it clearer.

Just need to know about this one employee though. Cheers!

[TwigtheWonderkid]

If it's 28 days inc bank holidays, it's the same as 20 plus bank holidays, so someone working 4 days week gets 16 days.

In effect, everyone gets 4 weeks off. 16 days is for weeks for someone Mon to Thurs, because they only need 4 days holiday to have a week off.

[Sy1441]

Depends on whether bank holidays are normalised or not contractually in your company which I'm guessing from your post is the problem.

Best thing to do is to agree what holiday entitlement will look like with the employee and amend the contract. I'd use an HR consultancy for this to be honest, I have one on retainer.

[jackofall84]

Wing Commander said:

Hi all

I think I need to tighten up on the wording in the contracts for my employees, for holiday allowance as its not clear (evidenced by the fact that I do not even know if I have worded it correctly).

So, most of my staff work 5 days a week so its not really an issue, but one of them works Monday - Thursday.

Contracts say:

"During each holiday year, the employee is entitled to the 28 days paid leave, such entitlement accruing on a pro-rata basis (Bank and Public Holidays are included in the calculation of the employee's paid annual leave)"

So, we recently had the Good Friday. Does this count within the holiday entitlement, even though she didn't work that day?

I should, and will, update contracts for new starters which say 20 days plus bank holidays, to make it clearer.

Just need to know about this one employee though. Cheers!

Bit of a slave driver, my place is 25 days + bank holidays

[Cyberprog]

jackofall84 said:

Bit of a slave driver, my place is 25 days + bank holidays

Yep, same here.

[The teacher]

My username says it all... 😁

[jules_s]

I thought most workplaces now calculate the equivalent holiday period in hours?

[craigjm]

jules_s said:

I thought most workplaces now calculate the equivalent holiday period in hours?

This is the easiest way to get round the whole issue

[InitialDave]

Yes, my place does hours, it works well. Just put something in place to cover things like people trying to book odd hours here and there, as it'll become messy. So you say that the minimum period to be taken is one whole morning or one whole afternoon, with an allowance to have a single "mopping up" booking when all their hours are used and there's a discrepant balance remaining that doesn't quite make up a morning or afternoon block.

[craigjm]

InitialDave said:

Yes, my place does hours, it works well. Just put something in place to cover things like people trying to book odd hours here and there, as it'll become messy. So you say that the minimum period to be taken is one whole morning or one whole afternoon, with an allowance to have a single "mopping up" booking when all their hours are used and there's a discrepant balance remaining that doesn't quite make up a morning or afternoon block.

Most organisations that do it in hours say for instance that a day is 8 hours and you must take leave in blocks of 4 hours minimum so half day

[InitialDave]

craigjm said:

Most organisations that do it in hours say for instance that a day is 8 hours and you must take leave in blocks of 4 hours minimum so half day

Yes, our days aren't quite an even split AM/PM, so we can't do it quite so neatly.

[mcflurry]

InitialDave said:

Yes, my place does hours, it works well. Just put something in place to cover things like people trying to book odd hours here and there, as it'll become messy. So you say that the minimum period to be taken is one whole morning or one whole afternoon, with an allowance to have a single "mopping up" booking when all their hours are used and there's a discrepant balance remaining that doesn't quite make up a morning or afternoon block.

If I had the need for less than a 1/2 day, then i'd just take it as an early/late lunch or similar..

[Antony Moxey]

If the contract says pro rata, doesn't that mean someone working a four day week gets 80% of the holiday entitlement of someone who works a five day week?

[Wing Commander]

Thanks all

So, to address some of the points:

Yes, the contracts says prorata, with the full time amount being 28 days which include Bank Hols. I think I just need to make clear that its 20 days, plus Bank Holidays (so the person doing Mon-Thu will not have Good Friday in lieu, for example)

Would love to offer more holiday, but we are a domestic cleaning company and so are unfortunately at the bottom end of the employment spectrum, in terms of pay etc. We simply do not have the margins to offer more. We pay a healthy amount above minimum wage, and actually employ our staff unlike the vast majority of cleaning companies who use SE people. This means that, despite offering the minimum holiday allowance, we still have a queue of people wanting to work for us, which is nice!

Think I need to get our contracts made a bit clearer, and have a polite, open chat with the staff affected to clear things up.

Thanks all!

[Gary C]

jackofall84 said:

Bit of a slave driver, my place is 25 days + bank holidays

Bank holiday ?, what's one of those

I just get 308 hours a year to take off.

[RichardAP]

Wing Commander said:

Thanks all

So, to address some of the points:

Yes, the contracts says prorata, with the full time amount being 28 days which include Bank Hols. I think I just need to make clear that its 20 days, plus Bank Holidays (so the person doing Mon-Thu will not have Good Friday in lieu, for example)

Would love to offer more holiday, but we are a domestic cleaning company and so are unfortunately at the bottom end of the employment spectrum, in terms of pay etc. We simply do not have the margins to offer more. We pay a healthy amount above minimum wage, and actually employ our staff unlike the vast majority of cleaning companies who use SE people. This means that, despite offering the minimum holiday allowance, we still have a queue of people wanting to work for us, which is nice!

Think I need to get our contracts made a bit clearer, and have a polite, open chat with the staff affected to clear things up.

Thanks all!

I think it’s already been suggested but it’s usually better to do 28 days, including bank holidays. That avoids any issues if for example May Day, whitsun, august bh, Easter Monday are all Mondays and this year Xmas day, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day will all give bh’s on Monday/Tuesday. Then prorated for days /hours worked.

[MrJuice]

I had this when I was working 0.8wte

My holiday allowance is 32+8 bank holidays and pro rata that is 32 days total

I was working four days a week. If there's a bank holiday on any of the days I am scheduled to work, I have to take that as leave from my 32 days. If a bank holiday falls on a non work day (as good Fri did for your employee), my 32 days stay in tact. Simple as.

[Cyberprog]

RichardAP said:

I think it’s already been suggested but it’s usually better to do 28 days, including bank holidays. That avoids any issues if for example May Day, whitsun, august bh, Easter Monday are all Mondays and this year Xmas day, Boxing Day and New Year’s Day will all give bh’s on Monday/Tuesday. Then prorated for days /hours worked.

Also if extra bank holidays are snuck in, you're covered already.