How to break into General Management
Discussion
So I've worked at senior manager level within IT for a decade and more now, including stints abroad and in a number of different industries.
At 44 I'm now considering where I want the second half of my career to take me and wondering idly how I would go about making the move from "departmental" management to a GM type role (looking at previous GMs I've worked for, I have no doubt I could do the job.)
The big question for me is how does one actually go about making this change - if I look at sits vac for GM roles, they all seem to want previous GM experience...
I'm sure in the big World that is PH someone must have trod this road before me?
At 44 I'm now considering where I want the second half of my career to take me and wondering idly how I would go about making the move from "departmental" management to a GM type role (looking at previous GMs I've worked for, I have no doubt I could do the job.)
The big question for me is how does one actually go about making this change - if I look at sits vac for GM roles, they all seem to want previous GM experience...
I'm sure in the big World that is PH someone must have trod this road before me?
I have also been looking at the same thing
I am 47 and have been in IT management of various forms for the last 20 years
IT doesn’t interest me as much any more and in the various businesses I have worked for have always been involved in a wider remit than pure IT with processes and procedures, policy making, project mgmt, lots to do with M&A, contract negotiation, etc and would like to do more of this and less IT. From a P&L point of view I have a basic grounding in this (from partial AAT quals), from managing IT budgets and again from being involved in other areas of the businesses
The company I am at has changed senior mgmt and IT is now seen as just that. Far from being involved in the wider business, I don’t hear from directors now unless their laptop is busted or their printer is jammed.
Like the OP, when I look at general or operations mgmt roles the requirements seem surprised narrow for what are quite wide roles. Exactly how to market myself is the question. I can steer the content and style of CV but at the end of the day my job titles all have IT in them and a lot of recruiters can’t seem to reconcile that to their JDs
I had an interview last year for an operations manager in a manufacturing business. My last two roles have been IT in manufacturing businesses and the interview went really well with lots of obvious crossover in my experience and what they were looking for. However, after the interview I got a call from them to tell me that I am an IT manager and they are going to go with the experiencing operations manager instead...
I am 47 and have been in IT management of various forms for the last 20 years
IT doesn’t interest me as much any more and in the various businesses I have worked for have always been involved in a wider remit than pure IT with processes and procedures, policy making, project mgmt, lots to do with M&A, contract negotiation, etc and would like to do more of this and less IT. From a P&L point of view I have a basic grounding in this (from partial AAT quals), from managing IT budgets and again from being involved in other areas of the businesses
The company I am at has changed senior mgmt and IT is now seen as just that. Far from being involved in the wider business, I don’t hear from directors now unless their laptop is busted or their printer is jammed.
Like the OP, when I look at general or operations mgmt roles the requirements seem surprised narrow for what are quite wide roles. Exactly how to market myself is the question. I can steer the content and style of CV but at the end of the day my job titles all have IT in them and a lot of recruiters can’t seem to reconcile that to their JDs
I had an interview last year for an operations manager in a manufacturing business. My last two roles have been IT in manufacturing businesses and the interview went really well with lots of obvious crossover in my experience and what they were looking for. However, after the interview I got a call from them to tell me that I am an IT manager and they are going to go with the experiencing operations manager instead...
K50 DEL said:
So I've worked at senior manager level within IT for a decade and more now, including stints abroad and in a number of different industries.
At 44 I'm now considering where I want the second half of my career to take me and wondering idly how I would go about making the move from "departmental" management to a GM type role (looking at previous GMs I've worked for, I have no doubt I could do the job.)
The big question for me is how does one actually go about making this change - if I look at sits vac for GM roles, they all seem to want previous GM experience...
I'm sure in the big World that is PH someone must have trod this road before me?
Apologies if stupid question but what is “general management” as opposed to “Departmental Management”. All of the Senior Managers at our place manage a Department. The level above (Board) will be former Dept Managers who will usually manage several Departments. What would a general Manager “manage”?At 44 I'm now considering where I want the second half of my career to take me and wondering idly how I would go about making the move from "departmental" management to a GM type role (looking at previous GMs I've worked for, I have no doubt I could do the job.)
The big question for me is how does one actually go about making this change - if I look at sits vac for GM roles, they all seem to want previous GM experience...
I'm sure in the big World that is PH someone must have trod this road before me?
GM would normally be the level between departmental managers and the board.
The GM role has a lot of similarities to COO or CEO depending on how the org chart of the business is laid out.
Where I am currently the department managers all report into the GM who runs the company's operations in the UK. Reporting into the COO and board who are based abroad.
The GM role has a lot of similarities to COO or CEO depending on how the org chart of the business is laid out.
Where I am currently the department managers all report into the GM who runs the company's operations in the UK. Reporting into the COO and board who are based abroad.
A lot could be written in response to the original question and subsequent queries and comments as this is a wide open subject.
In its simplest form however, the response could be; it’s just a job like any other and if you think you can do it, will enjoy it and will fit, then just apply. In essence, don’t get too hung up on the naming conventions, simply look at the competencies required.
The role/name of ‘manager’ isn’t protected or regulated in the UK, so there is no control over its use or definition, so anyone can choose however they wish to describe a manager role in their organisation, so there is no consistency. Hence you simply have to work off the job advert and person spec and nearly ignore the job title.
Re the query about you only having jobs with IT in their title; just drop the word IT from your CV? So if you were an IT Manager, reduce that to just Manager and you wouldn’t be wrong.
Re ads asking for previous ‘general management’ experience; give them examples of general management experience in your CV. If you’re any type of manager, you’re also a ‘general’ manager, assuming you have the competencies being asked for, including P&L if that’s required.
And as also mentioned above, gain some quals to externally verify your management competencies and experience. MBA or things like Chartered Manager via the CMI and everything else in-between.
In summary, look beyond the titles of roles as they apply to management (as it’s not a protected title), and concentrate more on whether you actually think you could do the job and present your competencies in such a way as to confirm that.
Hope that helps a little.
In its simplest form however, the response could be; it’s just a job like any other and if you think you can do it, will enjoy it and will fit, then just apply. In essence, don’t get too hung up on the naming conventions, simply look at the competencies required.
The role/name of ‘manager’ isn’t protected or regulated in the UK, so there is no control over its use or definition, so anyone can choose however they wish to describe a manager role in their organisation, so there is no consistency. Hence you simply have to work off the job advert and person spec and nearly ignore the job title.
Re the query about you only having jobs with IT in their title; just drop the word IT from your CV? So if you were an IT Manager, reduce that to just Manager and you wouldn’t be wrong.
Re ads asking for previous ‘general management’ experience; give them examples of general management experience in your CV. If you’re any type of manager, you’re also a ‘general’ manager, assuming you have the competencies being asked for, including P&L if that’s required.
And as also mentioned above, gain some quals to externally verify your management competencies and experience. MBA or things like Chartered Manager via the CMI and everything else in-between.
In summary, look beyond the titles of roles as they apply to management (as it’s not a protected title), and concentrate more on whether you actually think you could do the job and present your competencies in such a way as to confirm that.
Hope that helps a little.
P&L, as previously noted, is impt. You may need a stepping stone role where you can get that.
Update your CV to focus on management and digital (not IT) skills, and anything commercial you have done.
Talk to some headhunters for advice and to get on their radar. Make sure they actually do the senior roles you are after - Egon Zehnder, Spencer Stuart, Heidricks for example.
Update your CV to focus on management and digital (not IT) skills, and anything commercial you have done.
Talk to some headhunters for advice and to get on their radar. Make sure they actually do the senior roles you are after - Egon Zehnder, Spencer Stuart, Heidricks for example.
If your a good talker you can talk your way into many jobs you may not have had the experience in. Not on the level you are but i still remember my friend getting hired for a decorating firm he had zero clue about. Ofcourse he was found out in a week but point stands. Talk well and you can go far.
klan8456 said:
Totally off topic..................took the massively intensive multiple 2 week residential modules. Fantastic experience and learning. Hard work but enjoyable.In my experience the good COO/CEOs rarely had a single function under their belt, the very good ones had most functions, so they could understand everything very well from all functional perspectives; financially, operationally, sales, marketing etc etc
(Theoretically that what an MBA etc tries to replicate)
So, to get there you need to gain as much broad experience as possible.
(Theoretically that what an MBA etc tries to replicate)
So, to get there you need to gain as much broad experience as possible.
K50 DEL said:
GM would normally be the level between departmental managers and the board.
The GM role has a lot of similarities to COO or CEO depending on how the org chart of the business is laid out.
Where I am currently the department managers all report into the GM who runs the company's operations in the UK. Reporting into the COO and board who are based abroad.
if the GM is your line manager is it with having a chat with him about what you want to do and ask if there is any chance of you shadowing other Dept Heads to get a better understanding of what the rest of the org does?The GM role has a lot of similarities to COO or CEO depending on how the org chart of the business is laid out.
Where I am currently the department managers all report into the GM who runs the company's operations in the UK. Reporting into the COO and board who are based abroad.
K50 DEL said:
So I've worked at senior manager level within IT for a decade and more now, including stints abroad and in a number of different industries.
At 44 I'm now considering where I want the second half of my career to take me and wondering idly how I would go about making the move from "departmental" management to a GM type role (looking at previous GMs I've worked for, I have no doubt I could do the job.)
The big question for me is how does one actually go about making this change - if I look at sits vac for GM roles, they all seem to want previous GM experience...
I'm sure in the big World that is PH someone must have trod this road before me?
https://www.insead.edu/sites/default/files/assets/dept/ee/Comparison_Glance_grids/Comparison_Grid_GMP_Web.pdfAt 44 I'm now considering where I want the second half of my career to take me and wondering idly how I would go about making the move from "departmental" management to a GM type role (looking at previous GMs I've worked for, I have no doubt I could do the job.)
The big question for me is how does one actually go about making this change - if I look at sits vac for GM roles, they all seem to want previous GM experience...
I'm sure in the big World that is PH someone must have trod this road before me?
https://www.insead.edu/executive-education/general...
Even better if you can go and live in Fonty for a few weeks. Amazing place, great food market and very pleasant to walk through the grounds of the palace.
Edited by klan8456 on Sunday 16th May 07:56
What industry are you in? I know I'll be teaching a granny to suck eggs, but whichever industry you're in, the country organisation will have a commercial arm to sell, market or manufacture your product, the BU or more likely multiple BUs. To be considered for a GM role, you need to have managed at least one BU successfully and profitably, having managed what is an internal department and having been in charge of your own P&L isn't enough.
Let me illustrate this from my background. I'm in pharma and I'm a doctor. I'm the medical director and it's becoming more and more common for medics to become GMs and CEOs of pharma companies but they all do the transition by taking on BU director positions and running BUs for some time before those roles. This is despite medical teams being far more external facing than IT teams.
GMs will have been through being in charge of multiple business units plus at least 1 "other" such as marketing, finance, IT, medical etc. That's what the general in GM is. You have the "other" so now you need the BU.
Let me illustrate this from my background. I'm in pharma and I'm a doctor. I'm the medical director and it's becoming more and more common for medics to become GMs and CEOs of pharma companies but they all do the transition by taking on BU director positions and running BUs for some time before those roles. This is despite medical teams being far more external facing than IT teams.
GMs will have been through being in charge of multiple business units plus at least 1 "other" such as marketing, finance, IT, medical etc. That's what the general in GM is. You have the "other" so now you need the BU.
Made the jump from functional (accountant / finance) to GM roles some years ago. From my experience it was easier to do within my existing organisation. I had experience of the industry, experience of the organisation and a good reputation, so selling myself as able to do a GM role was 'easier' than selling my to a new organisation and a new role at the same time. It took a fair amount of time, had to engage with multiple stakeholders to make it clear what I was after and to understand what I needed to do to get there. Have you had the discussion with your current employer about being a GM?
I would also advocate a MBA. I did my part time over two years at the same time as starting my GM role (part of the 'deal' as I moved across). I would try and pick the best school you can and one where there is a lot of face to face learning (versus remote) as the engagement with the staff and fellow students is where a lot of the value is imho.
good luck
I would also advocate a MBA. I did my part time over two years at the same time as starting my GM role (part of the 'deal' as I moved across). I would try and pick the best school you can and one where there is a lot of face to face learning (versus remote) as the engagement with the staff and fellow students is where a lot of the value is imho.
good luck
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