Supervisor/leadership training
Discussion
Hello to you all, I have a question, that hopefully you knowledgeable people can advise.
I am a maintenance engineer and I repair, maintain, install and even build equipment for a fairly varied research and manufacturing company. I have been here doing this for 10 years, I had a similar role previously at another company so have nearly 20 years experience.
I really want to push myself and wish to advance my career take a step up to a team leader/supervisor role.
Where I am there are 3 engineers per shift (over 3 shifts) who report to a manager.
I am one of the longest serving engineers, Most other engineers had done less than 4 or 5 years, two have done less than a year.
I have trained mentored these to do the job, they look to me to lead/guide, my manager leaves the job sheets to me to sort and get done and I even deputise for him when he is away.
I have made enquiries with my manager and basically the answer is such a small department it doesn't justify a team leader/supervisor/deputy. (plus they probably don't want to pay extra for what they already have)
I had a Zoom interview for a maintenance supervisor job last night, and the job sounds great something I could definately do well.
Asked him at the end if he had any thoughts or concerns at the end and he said I interviewed well, He mentioned the the lack of a previous supervisor role, Of course during the interview we had already discussed my current role and the responsibilities and how I felt them suitable for the role. The interviewer seemed to understand, but it still seems to come down to "it's not a formal role on my CV"
They have a few more interviews to conduct so I won't know the outcome for a bit, but I was wondering if there were any courses that I could do that would help boost my chances, Obviously this won't be a previous job on my CV, but a qualification may help companies see past that and improve my chances.
Do you think this would help?
I have had a look on Google and lots of different types pop up, I could do with some pointers, needs to be something worth while so will will be recognised by prospective employers. Ideally some form of online/distance learning that I can do in my own time and as ever, cost matters.
Thank you
I am a maintenance engineer and I repair, maintain, install and even build equipment for a fairly varied research and manufacturing company. I have been here doing this for 10 years, I had a similar role previously at another company so have nearly 20 years experience.
I really want to push myself and wish to advance my career take a step up to a team leader/supervisor role.
Where I am there are 3 engineers per shift (over 3 shifts) who report to a manager.
I am one of the longest serving engineers, Most other engineers had done less than 4 or 5 years, two have done less than a year.
I have trained mentored these to do the job, they look to me to lead/guide, my manager leaves the job sheets to me to sort and get done and I even deputise for him when he is away.
I have made enquiries with my manager and basically the answer is such a small department it doesn't justify a team leader/supervisor/deputy. (plus they probably don't want to pay extra for what they already have)
I had a Zoom interview for a maintenance supervisor job last night, and the job sounds great something I could definately do well.
Asked him at the end if he had any thoughts or concerns at the end and he said I interviewed well, He mentioned the the lack of a previous supervisor role, Of course during the interview we had already discussed my current role and the responsibilities and how I felt them suitable for the role. The interviewer seemed to understand, but it still seems to come down to "it's not a formal role on my CV"
They have a few more interviews to conduct so I won't know the outcome for a bit, but I was wondering if there were any courses that I could do that would help boost my chances, Obviously this won't be a previous job on my CV, but a qualification may help companies see past that and improve my chances.
Do you think this would help?
I have had a look on Google and lots of different types pop up, I could do with some pointers, needs to be something worth while so will will be recognised by prospective employers. Ideally some form of online/distance learning that I can do in my own time and as ever, cost matters.
Thank you
Thanks, when looking for nvq lv3 it seems to be site supervisor for construction sites really.
I have been looking at these:
https://www.reed.co.uk/courses/supervisor-training...
200hrs (quite a commitment) discounted to £10
And
https://www.reed.co.uk/courses/supervisor-training...
80hrs (more doable) also discounted to £10
But don't know if they work be any good, or wether they would be recognised
I have been looking at these:
https://www.reed.co.uk/courses/supervisor-training...
200hrs (quite a commitment) discounted to £10
And
https://www.reed.co.uk/courses/supervisor-training...
80hrs (more doable) also discounted to £10
But don't know if they work be any good, or wether they would be recognised
To manage and lead people effectively takes both skill and experience.
You can certainly build up some theoretical skills awareness through study, and that is to be encouraged. I’d look to the likes of the CMI or ILM.
In terms of putting that in to practice to prove yourself competent, then you do need to be given responsibility for some staff and their outputs.
Whilst I am confident you would be able to evidence some competencies from what you’ve described, some others may be missing.
Could you therefore not ask to take on some additional responsibilities for staff without necessarily being paid for it just in order to be able to gain those competencies and experiences?
Otherwise you’re looking for an employer who is willing to take a chance on you from what you can evidence. This is not unusual, as for example, every CEO had to get their first CEO job without previously ever being a CEO!
Good luck!
You can certainly build up some theoretical skills awareness through study, and that is to be encouraged. I’d look to the likes of the CMI or ILM.
In terms of putting that in to practice to prove yourself competent, then you do need to be given responsibility for some staff and their outputs.
Whilst I am confident you would be able to evidence some competencies from what you’ve described, some others may be missing.
Could you therefore not ask to take on some additional responsibilities for staff without necessarily being paid for it just in order to be able to gain those competencies and experiences?
Otherwise you’re looking for an employer who is willing to take a chance on you from what you can evidence. This is not unusual, as for example, every CEO had to get their first CEO job without previously ever being a CEO!
Good luck!
Thank you Rog, all very useful there. I fully understand what you say. Some things need to be experienced and learnt that way.
I am in a catch 22 situation at the moment where I can't get the job because I don't have the experience, but I can't get the experience because I don't have the job...
I am hoping to get some training in at least the theory side of things to break the stalemate, putting myself through the course should show some proactiveness and hopefully give me a chance.
Looking into that the CMI or the ILM so seem very good. Proper bodies so the training would be worthwhile and recognised.
Doesn't seem to be anything to determine them apart which makes choosing between them a little harder.
Then narrowing down of the courses, taking the ILM courses they have:
Level 2: Leadership and Team Skills
Level 3: Leadership and Management
With these being available in award, certificate and diploma levels. One distance learning provider is listing these at: lv 2 award at £229 and lv 3 award at £299. Which doesn't seem bad to me.
I havent seen them with suggested durations either.
Heads swimming with all the options and that's before looking at the CMI course.
Little more research needed I think.
I am in a catch 22 situation at the moment where I can't get the job because I don't have the experience, but I can't get the experience because I don't have the job...
I am hoping to get some training in at least the theory side of things to break the stalemate, putting myself through the course should show some proactiveness and hopefully give me a chance.
Looking into that the CMI or the ILM so seem very good. Proper bodies so the training would be worthwhile and recognised.
Doesn't seem to be anything to determine them apart which makes choosing between them a little harder.
Then narrowing down of the courses, taking the ILM courses they have:
Level 2: Leadership and Team Skills
Level 3: Leadership and Management
With these being available in award, certificate and diploma levels. One distance learning provider is listing these at: lv 2 award at £229 and lv 3 award at £299. Which doesn't seem bad to me.
I havent seen them with suggested durations either.
Heads swimming with all the options and that's before looking at the CMI course.
Little more research needed I think.
Ussrcossack said:
Would your employer be able to put you through on an apprenticeship?
Zero cost to them I believe
Can't imagine a pitch of "Can I do a leadership course so I can make myself more marketable so I can leave you" would be very effective. Zero cost to them I believe
It's still my ultimate goal to move on, along with me wanting to take on more and advance my career I want to look to reduce my commute and getting away from shift work if possible.
It may not have any "cost" to them but it would take time to set up and manage presumably. My present employeers are a good company, they just won't spend money or effort on anything that isn't essential to the business. Seeing as they have said there is no point having a supervisor/team leader role, so I can't see them providing training for that.
I really don't mind doing it of my own back, just needing some pointers as what would be the right thing to do. Something recognised and at the right level.
If I get a second interview from my current application. Or if something else comes up I can hopefully make myself look better to by either doing (or having completed) the qualification.
Buzz84 said:
Ussrcossack said:
Would your employer be able to put you through on an apprenticeship?
Zero cost to them I believe
Can't imagine a pitch of "Can I do a leadership course so I can make myself more marketable so I can leave you" would be very effective. Zero cost to them I believe
CEO: what happens if we don’t train them and they stay?
rog007 said:
Buzz84 said:
Ussrcossack said:
Would your employer be able to put you through on an apprenticeship?
Zero cost to them I believe
Can't imagine a pitch of "Can I do a leadership course so I can make myself more marketable so I can leave you" would be very effective. Zero cost to them I believe
CEO: what happens if we don’t train them and they stay?
sociopath said:
Do you need a course? Sounds to me like you're already doing the supervision/leading. Perhaps you just need to tweak your CV to reflect those aspects of your experience?
Need? not sure but it wouldn't hurt and I would quite like to do it. I do have the extra bits listed/explained on my CV, seems to get me through screening and into an interview, then even after explaining it all and how I am a supervisor in all but name they seem to get tunnel vision that my job title isn't currently supervisor or team leader.
Could you "sell" additional training and responsibilities to your current employer as succession/ business continuity planning?
We're (hopefully) coming out of a global pandemic so now is a good time to be putting the "what if x, y or z happened?" and some of the leadership team were no longer available either temporarily or permanently type questions......
We're (hopefully) coming out of a global pandemic so now is a good time to be putting the "what if x, y or z happened?" and some of the leadership team were no longer available either temporarily or permanently type questions......
Buzz84 said:
Thank you Rog, all very useful there. I fully understand what you say. Some things need to be experienced and learnt that way.
I am in a catch 22 situation at the moment where I can't get the job because I don't have the experience, but I can't get the experience because I don't have the job...
I am hoping to get some training in at least the theory side of things to break the stalemate, putting myself through the course should show some proactiveness and hopefully give me a chance.
Looking into that the CMI or the ILM so seem very good. Proper bodies so the training would be worthwhile and recognised.
Doesn't seem to be anything to determine them apart which makes choosing between them a little harder.
Then narrowing down of the courses, taking the ILM courses they have:
Level 2: Leadership and Team Skills
Level 3: Leadership and Management
With these being available in award, certificate and diploma levels. One distance learning provider is listing these at: lv 2 award at £229 and lv 3 award at £299. Which doesn't seem bad to me.
I havent seen them with suggested durations either.
Heads swimming with all the options and that's before looking at the CMI course.
Little more research needed I think.
When I got my current job as a Supervisor my employer put me on an apprenticeship with Lighthouse Training (https://www.lighthouse-group.co.uk/) to do the Leadership and Management course to certificate level. I am in a catch 22 situation at the moment where I can't get the job because I don't have the experience, but I can't get the experience because I don't have the job...
I am hoping to get some training in at least the theory side of things to break the stalemate, putting myself through the course should show some proactiveness and hopefully give me a chance.
Looking into that the CMI or the ILM so seem very good. Proper bodies so the training would be worthwhile and recognised.
Doesn't seem to be anything to determine them apart which makes choosing between them a little harder.
Then narrowing down of the courses, taking the ILM courses they have:
Level 2: Leadership and Team Skills
Level 3: Leadership and Management
With these being available in award, certificate and diploma levels. One distance learning provider is listing these at: lv 2 award at £229 and lv 3 award at £299. Which doesn't seem bad to me.
I havent seen them with suggested durations either.
Heads swimming with all the options and that's before looking at the CMI course.
Little more research needed I think.
It was a day a month over a year(ish, was a bit weird due to covid) and various coursework submissions throughout. I was a little skeptical/cynical to begin with (mainly as I'd not done any formal learning for 20+ years) but in the end I thoroughly enjoyed it and got a lot out of it that I genuinely use daily.
No idea on costs etc but I would say it's a worthwhile thing to do even for your own confidence going into having people reporting into you.
Put "Supervisor" on your CV, for one of your older jobs, problem sorted.
This nonsense of having to have had the title you're applying for, it's laughable. If you're doing the job, it doesn't matter what your title is, put down what you did, not what title they gave you.
In one of my early jobs I was officially the "Senior XYZ engineer", but I was supervising a team of apprentices and doing all the tasks of the previous manager, including the weekly meetings, reports, department budgeting, doing interviews for new staff and handling disciplinary procedures if necessary. I was doing the managers job and that's what goes on my CV, I won't be held to ransom by a job title.
For once though i'm going to defend companies who load people up with responsibility and don't give them the correct title............... Sometimes, often times, when given a title, good people turn into egotistical monsters and the damage from this can be devastating.
This nonsense of having to have had the title you're applying for, it's laughable. If you're doing the job, it doesn't matter what your title is, put down what you did, not what title they gave you.
In one of my early jobs I was officially the "Senior XYZ engineer", but I was supervising a team of apprentices and doing all the tasks of the previous manager, including the weekly meetings, reports, department budgeting, doing interviews for new staff and handling disciplinary procedures if necessary. I was doing the managers job and that's what goes on my CV, I won't be held to ransom by a job title.
For once though i'm going to defend companies who load people up with responsibility and don't give them the correct title............... Sometimes, often times, when given a title, good people turn into egotistical monsters and the damage from this can be devastating.
Edited by lyonspride on Tuesday 17th August 11:49
srob said:
When I got my current job as a Supervisor my employer put me on an apprenticeship with Lighthouse Training (https://www.lighthouse-group.co.uk/) to do the Leadership and Management course to certificate level.
It was a day a month over a year(ish, was a bit weird due to covid) and various coursework submissions throughout. I was a little skeptical/cynical to begin with (mainly as I'd not done any formal learning for 20+ years) but in the end I thoroughly enjoyed it and got a lot out of it that I genuinely use daily.
No idea on costs etc but I would say it's a worthwhile thing to do even for your own confidence going into having people reporting into you.
Thank you, I've been looking at more of a self paced distance learning system version of the same course, just trying to decide between level 2 or 3 and between award, certificate or diploma level would be best. It was a day a month over a year(ish, was a bit weird due to covid) and various coursework submissions throughout. I was a little skeptical/cynical to begin with (mainly as I'd not done any formal learning for 20+ years) but in the end I thoroughly enjoyed it and got a lot out of it that I genuinely use daily.
No idea on costs etc but I would say it's a worthwhile thing to do even for your own confidence going into having people reporting into you.
Been pretty busy recently at work as it's our shutdown, when it gets quieter I think I will just need to call one of the training providers and pick their brains.
Nice to know you felt it worthwhile though.
lyonspride said:
Put "Supervisor" on your CV, for one of your older jobs, problem sorted.
This nonsense of having to have had the title you're applying for, it's laughable. If you're doing the job, it doesn't matter what your title is, put down what you did, not what title they gave you
As previously mentioned I have the extra responsibilities added into my job description and an explanation of this in my summary. Had a detailed talk about it in the interview too (still waiting to hear back...)This nonsense of having to have had the title you're applying for, it's laughable. If you're doing the job, it doesn't matter what your title is, put down what you did, not what title they gave you
Not really prepared to change my former job titles to supervisor for a few reasons.
- Previous employer still exists so it's easy for them to check with them/ ask for a reference. Especially as it's related to the role I am applying for.
- potential line of questioning as to why I took a "demotion" from supervisor to a engineer in my current job.
- it's simply lying and I don't have the memory or will to pull it off
rog007 said:
Buzz84 said:
Ussrcossack said:
Would your employer be able to put you through on an apprenticeship?
Zero cost to them I believe
Can't imagine a pitch of "Can I do a leadership course so I can make myself more marketable so I can leave you" would be very effective. Zero cost to them I believe
CEO: what happens if we don’t train them and they stay?
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