Employer threatening to take back bonus

[Dms86]

Hi guys

I'll keep this as simple as I can. In my last pay packet I received a small bonus for working at an event our company attends every year.

Today I received an email from my manager threatening to take this bonus back if I do not send him some information. (the info he wants are notes that he thinks should be taken at the event) I have informed him that I do not have any notes as I completed any paperwork required at the event.

The above issue is trivial.

The main thing I want to know is whether an employee can take a bonus back after it has been paid.

Thanks

[RobbieTheTruth]

No expert here, but it likely depends on the wording around bonuses in the your contract.

If they overpay you accidentally, they can request it back.

It likely hinges on if he feels he triggered the bonus 'accidentally' or not.

Rightly or wrongly, I'd say your future there is bleak if you don't pay it back. Once senior management want you out, there isn't much that can be done.


Hard one to say.

Ultimately, you'll 'know' if you're in the right or not.

If I was paid to attend an event, deep down knowing the reason of my attendance was to collect certain info, and I didn't bother getting any info, I woudn't really be surprised that my manager would be annoyed.

If it was a complete surprise, and I felt I did everything that was required, then I'd be annoyed.


Without knowing anyone in the situation - my guess is that your boss thinks you completely missed the point of why you were there, and is probably a bit fed up of you, and has responded accordingly. He probably feels you should have known what you were there to do specifically without having to spell it out, and he's angry with your attitude of saying "I went, I should get paid".

Or he might just be a lunatic.

Tell us more.

Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Thursday 2nd September 16:06

[Muzzer79]

Dms86 said:

Hi guys

I'll keep this as simple as I can. In my last pay packet I received a small bonus for working at an event our company attends every year.

Today I received an email from my manager threatening to take this bonus back if I do not send him some information. (the info he wants are notes that he thinks should be taken at the event) I have informed him that I do not have any notes as I completed any paperwork required at the event.

The above issue is trivial.

The main thing I want to know is whether an employee can take a bonus back after it has been paid.

Thanks

Questions:

What was the bonus for?

Was it simply for attending? Like a form of overtime payment?
Or was it for completing a specific task or achieving a specific performance at the event - i.e sales performance?

Were you formally asked or was it in your job description/expectation to complete notes at the event? Or is this something your boss has assumed?

How big is this company you work for?


To answer your question presumptively, if you were paid a bonus simply for attending and you attended, then no - the bonus cannot officially be taken back. I suspect your boss got his powers confused.

How you deal with the problem is another matter and depends on several factors.

[Countdown]

Dms86 said:

Hi guys

I'll keep this as simple as I can. In my last pay packet I received a small bonus for working at an event our company attends every year.

Today I received an email from my manager threatening to take this bonus back if I do not send him some information. (the info he wants are notes that he thinks should be taken at the event) I have informed him that I do not have any notes as I completed any paperwork required at the event.

The above issue is trivial.

The main thing I want to know is whether an employee can take a bonus back after it has been paid.

Thanks

What were the conditions you had to meet in order for the bonus to be paid? if they were met then no, Employer can't claw back. if they try to (without your agreement) then it's an unlawful deduction from wages. And if that happens you would need to go to Employment Tribunal.

If there were NO conditions and there is nothing in writing (and therefore nothing to justify the payment) they would argue that it was an Overpayment and therefore they're entitled to automatically deduct.

[SeanyD]

Can't comment on the legalities/contractuals, however, technically it's the easiest thing in the world for most payrolls to adjust peoples pay packets up or down accordingly. I've experienced it being used for clawing back unreasonable expenses, leavers disappearing with company equipment, and for clawing back the cost of expensive training courses.

So yes, you can argue the legal toss, but if they want to take back a bonus, they can easily do so.

[Dms86]

To answer a few questions.

The 'bonus' was paid for working at a motorsport event.

The money is paid because its quite a demanding event compared to what we normally do. It has been custom for as long as I can remember working here to have this extra money after the event.

My role is to provide customer support and solve and issues that may arise. I wasn't sent to this event to take notes. I hope this clears any confusion on that point.

The issue my manager has is that I did not take any notes during the event. The notes are used by a colleague to compile an event report. I was not asked at the start to take any notes. I completed delivery notes for anything that was sold at the event and these were signed by the customer. This enables customers to be billed and leaves a paper trail.

It is by no means a large bonus and I have checked with my union the rules regarding the situation. They confirmed that any deductions from my wages have to be agree beforehand in writing.

My manager wants a meeting to discuss the matter further so I will see what he has to say.

Edited by Dms86 on Friday 3rd September 11:20

[Munter]

A) Your manager is a dick
B)If you did everything required the money should be yours
C)Your manager is a dick, so you're about to have to make decisions around how much of a fight you want to have with a dick, and what that means to your future under said dick.

[Dms86]

I've had ten years working under said manager and I am used to the irrational treatment dished out at times. I just want to make sure that I am always on the right side of what I need to be doing.

[Pothole]

You seem to suggest above that this is a regular event your firm covers. Is there a precedent for the note-taking?

[Dms86]

The event happens once a year. There is no set precedent. Some of my colleagues like to take notes. I guess it depends on your own working style. I'm more than happy working without notes. If any paperwork needs completing then I make sure that this gets done. This is separate to note taking.

If you are asked at the start of the event to take notes then it changes the outcome completely. I was not.

[Pothole]

Dms86 said:

The event happens once a year. There is no set precedent. Some of my colleagues like to take notes. I guess it depends on your own working style. I'm more than happy working without notes. If any paperwork needs completing then I make sure that this gets done. This is separate to note taking.

If you are asked at the start of the event to take notes then it changes the outcome completely. I was not.

Fair enough, then. If said boss didn't make his expectation clear before then I'd say you should be entitled to the bonus. (and he needs to make sure he voices his expectations in pre event briefings in future!)

[Muzzer79]

Dms86 said:

The money is paid because its quite a demanding event compared to what we normally do. It has been custom for as long as I can remember working here to have this extra money after the event.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a situation of

"(X) event is a bit of a tough one, we'll bung you a few quid afterwards for the hard work"

Rather than a formal bonus structure that's documented?

How is it paid to you? I assume (and hope) via your regular salary as a one-off monthly overpayment?

Not that the above makes much difference to the fact that if they've paid it to you already, they can't take it away.

[CharlesElliott]

If you have covered this event over multiple years, have you ever been asked to take notes before? Or did you follow the same working pattern this year as previous years, but suddenly your manager wants notes?

[aazer89]

Dms86 said:

The event happens once a year. There is no set precedent. Some of my colleagues like to take notes. I guess it depends on your own working style. I'm more than happy working without notes. If any paperwork needs completing then I make sure that this gets done. This is separate to note taking.

If you are asked at the start of the event to take notes then it changes the outcome completely. I was not.

Im going to play devils advocate here abit. I dont mean to go against anything you say so please dont take offence.

It sounds like you are aware of said note taking at the event? As you have stated your colleagues do and you know what these notes are used for.
You also say you werent asked to note take, maybe they had the expectation that due to the fact you had knowledge of the event and the fact that notes are taken and used afterwards that you would just do it? Hence your manager is now abit peeved that you havent done so?

Working style is one thing but to not do what is expected is another thing altogether. Unless I have misread.. In which case ignore of all this lol

[anonymous-user]

Dms86 said:

I've had ten years working under said manager and I am used to the irrational treatment dished out at times. I just want to make sure that I am always on the right side of what I need to be doing.

If you love the job and the salary that much that you are prepared to put up with such a manager, then fair enough, but I would be resigning if they got petty, unreasonable, or irrational with me.

Life is too short to put up with grief or situations like this from any employer, especially when it is an 'employees market' out there at the moment.

It happened to me once, about 10 years ago. I had a manager who was a short tempered, disorganised and often irrational lady. She had been with the company in the same position for about 15 years as it was a very 'stagnant' culture. I had worked there 6 years, never had a single issue, and she called me into her office one day and basically had a go at me for not putting some minor new procedures into place in my job, rules that had just been announced in the industry. The thing was, it was her job to keep us informed of all these developments, and she was supposed to ensure that we all received the instructions and implemented them, which she had not done as she had clearly forgotten due to her disorganisation.

I just sat there, let her say her piece and try to shift the blame, left her office, decided that it was the only time I would be spoken to like that, and then I resigned a week later which apparently came as a 'total shock' to her.

I still speak to some of my old colleagues who are still there, still working under her, and still saying it is a 'st' place to work and she is still 'nightmare'.

In hindsight, my manager being an arse to me was a good thing, as it was the little kick up the arse I needed to move on to bigger and better things. It is often far too easy to just remain at one place when there could be better opportunities out there.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 3rd September 13:01

[TheAngryDog]

Lord Marylebone said:

Dms86 said:

I've had ten years working under said manager and I am used to the irrational treatment dished out at times. I just want to make sure that I am always on the right side of what I need to be doing.

If you love the job and the salary that much that you are prepared to put up with such a manager, then fair enough, but I would be resigning if they got petty, unreasonable, or irrational with me.

Life is too short to put up with grief or situations like this from any employer, especially when it is an 'employees market' out there at the moment.

It happened to me once, about 10 years ago. I had a manager who was a short tempered, disorganised and often irrational lady. She had been with the company in the same position for about 15 years as it was a very 'stagnant' culture. I had worked there 6 years, never had a single issue, and she called me into her office one day and basically had a go at me for not putting some minor new procedures into place in my job, rules that had just been announced in the industry. The thing was, it was her job to keep us informed of all these developments, and she was supposed to ensure that we all received the instructions and implemented them, which she had not done as she had clearly forgotten due to her disorganisation.

I just sat there, let her say her piece and try to shift the blame, left her office, decided that it was the only time I would be spoken to like that, and then I resigned a week later which apparently came as a 'total shock' to her.

I still speak to some of my old colleagues who are still there, still working under her, and still saying it is a 'st' place to work and she is still 'nightmare'.

In hindsight, my manager being an arse to me was a good thing, as it was the little kick up the arse I needed to move on to bigger and better things. It is often far too easy to just remain at one place when there could be better opportunities out there.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Friday 3rd September 13:01

The saying that people leave managers, not company's, rings true here.

[anonymous-user]

TheAngryDog said:

The saying that people leave managers, not company's, rings true here.

I totally and utterly agree with that. Seen it many times.

The wrong manager will easily drive good employees out of a business.