Working from home limiting progression?

[Pixelpeep 135]

do you think people who are working from home more often than colleagues of equal skill/knowledge/position are at a disadvantage when it comes to progression ?

promotion can sometimes be 'not what you know, it's who you know' and opportunities to step up and take on extra responsibilities seem to be quite off the cuff, and discussions happen during idle face to face chit chat that wouldn't otherwise happen over teams etc.

and no, i haven't just been passed over for a promotion lol

[Jamescrs]

I think that will definately be the case, sadly it isn't always about ability and is often about who you know and who you have built relationships with professionally and that cant happen in the same way working from home.

I have encountered it myself in the past applying for roles within my organisation where I was openly told by the recruiting person if he knew who I was mates with I wouldn't have been paper sifted out.

In another application for another role I did use my connections for an informal chat with a senior manager on a role I was applying for and it got me the job. Its sad but its how it is.

[toon10]

Possibly. My career achievements were no better or worse than anyone else's but I managed to progress by being able to demonstrate what I did to those in more senior positions. Get your face known and all that. You can still "sell" what' you've done online but it probably helps to be in the room with people to get better known and have those after demo conversations over a coffee.

I'm fully WFH now and have no desire for anymore career progression so happy to stay out of the limelight while the money is good and the pressure is low. If I were a younger man and wanting to climb the ladder again, I'd be looking at getting in the office as much as I could.

[Jamescrs]

toon10 said:

Possibly. My career achievements were no better or worse than anyone else's but I managed to progress by being able to demonstrate what I did to those in more senior positions. Get your face known and all that. You can still "sell" what' you've done online but it probably helps to be in the room with people to get better known and have those after demo conversations over a coffee.

I'm fully WFH now and have no desire for anymore career progression so happy to stay out of the limelight while the money is good and the pressure is low. If I were a younger man and wanting to climb the ladder again, I'd be looking at getting in the office as much as I could.

I think this pretty much sums it up well.

[StevieBee]

I think this is an issue and one of the reasons I believe that this wholesale permanent transition to WFH is hugely overstated. I am certain that we will begin to see a greater shift back to more normal patterns of working sooner that later - new variants not withstanding.

Work isn't just about work. It's about structure, community, friendships from which progression can emerge.

[Electro1980]

Maybe, but we should be addressing the issue of nepotism, not the issue of working from home. As long as this continues we end up with crap people in jobs because they can BS well rather than the right people.

[okgo]

Electro1980 said:

Maybe, but we should be addressing the issue of nepotism, not the issue of working from home. As long as this continues we end up with crap people in jobs because they can BS well rather than the right people.

You'll never change human nature to buy from people they get on with/like etc. Pointless trying to be honest.

[Jamescrs]

I've seen organisations try to eliminate nepotism in the past and on an application sift it's possible but eventually you still have the potential applicants sat in front of an interview team and that can't reasonably be eliminated.

Edited by Jamescrs on Tuesday 21st September 19:51

[GT03ROB]

Pixelpeep 135 said:

do you think people who are working from home more often than colleagues of equal skill/knowledge/position are at a disadvantage when it comes to progression ?

promotion can sometimes be 'not what you know, it's who you know' and opportunities to step up and take on extra responsibilities seem to be quite off the cuff, and discussions happen during idle face to face chit chat that wouldn't otherwise happen over teams etc.

and no, i haven't just been passed over for a promotion lol

Yes, in any role that requires a level of human interaction. There is too much that happens in a work place that simply does not happen when working remotely. I work remotely from my home office. In pre-CV times I would always go into the home office when I was out on leave, just to remind people I still exist. With the best will in the world out of sight is still out of mind. This can be an advantage, but if you are looking to progress in your career it is a quite definite disadvanatage.

[LeoSayer]

The same disadvantage happens when working at a different site, building or even floor to senior management.

However some may also see that as an advantage.

Building relationships and trust is an important consideration for career progression so those who can't have direct contact need to work out other communication strategies.

[768]

I would say no... but YMMV in other careers.

Before I started a career in software development someone told me you'll never get the career progression within a company that you would by moving between companies and to move every 2 years at a minimum. For various reasons, they'll hire you into a role and just want to keep you there.

I'd do 18 months to 3 years at a company, see modest 3-5% increases in salary, lots of praise, no promotion of any kind and while the odd carrot was dangled it never materialised. So I'd keep the advice I was given in mind, look elsewhere and be offered literally double the salary I was on in a more complex, challenging environment. I tried going from smaller companies through to very large ones but always found the same.

The last 10 years of that career has been in roles working from home. Now that there are more ways to do that I can only think the prospects for those younger than I are increased. I can see that progression within an organisation may have dwindled, but it never existed for me anyway.

[Munter]

768 said:

I would say no... but YMMV in other careers.

Before I started a career in software development someone told me you'll never get the career progression within a company that you would by moving between companies and to move every 2 years at a minimum. For various reasons, they'll hire you into a role and just want to keep you there.

I'd do 18 months to 3 years at a company, see modest 3-5% increases in salary, lots of praise, no promotion of any kind and while the odd carrot was dangled it never materialised. So I'd keep the advice I was given in mind, look elsewhere and be offered literally double the salary I was on in a more complex, challenging environment. I tried going from smaller companies through to very large ones but always found the same.

The last 10 years of that career has been in roles working from home. Now that there are more ways to do that I can only think the prospects for those younger than I are increased. I can see that progression within an organisation may have dwindled, but it never existed for me anyway.

This really. Progression inside companies happens so rarely it's not worth putting too much effort into. Best option always seem to be to jump to a better role in a different company.

[Hill92]

The WFH debate tends to focus on the advantages to junior employees being into office with senior management. But is it still a safe assumption that senior management are actually in the office themselves?

Compared to junior employees, senior staff are perhaps more likely to:
- feel secure/content in their current role
- less need to socialise at work (if only because they're fed up of colleagues!)
- be living away further from the office (city centre flat share vs moving out to suburbia/commuter belt for bigger house and garden)
- have family commitments (school run/bedtime)
- a comfortable home office in the garden (vs a crowded kitchen table with flat mates)?

Pre-pandemic they might never have considered WFH but after 18 months of enforced WFH, do they actually want to go back either?

[dmahon]

Hill92 said:

Pre-pandemic they might never have considered WFH but after 18 months of enforced WFH, do they actually want to go back either?

A few of my friends are in this situation. They want to go back but their bosses are in no rush too. I think your theory is a good one :-)

[jonwm]

I've been thinking about this a bit of late, not really for me but my BIL who works at a huge global company, he is well thought of and has progressed well in his 20 years there, he is part of the "Senior Leadership Team" for one of the divisions and has visions of VP / MD.

However when talking to him the other day I cant help but think how his progression will continue now he is at home 100% of the time, he still goes on "SLT" meetings via teams but wander how you can guide a multi million pound business form his spare room, his company Landover discovery is now pretty much his wife's run around as he doesn't use it for work anymore.

I don't genuinely think his ability has changed at all, however progression i feel could be muted?

[prand]

jonwm said:

I've been thinking about this a bit of late, not really for me but my BIL who works at a huge global company, he is well thought of and has progressed well in his 20 years there, he is part of the "Senior Leadership Team" for one of the divisions and has visions of VP / MD.

However when talking to him the other day I cant help but think how his progression will continue now he is at home 100% of the time, he still goes on "SLT" meetings via teams but wander how you can guide a multi million pound business form his spare room, his company Landover discovery is now pretty much his wife's run around as he doesn't use it for work anymore.

I don't genuinely think his ability has changed at all, however progression i feel could be muted?

To comment on this and the OPs question, I would say that on getting a promotion, working from home should not be a barrier, particularly right now as relatively few people are back full time in the office.

The point is, despite things being done differently now, I would say it is not difficult to run a company from your bedroom when you work with like minded, motivated people. Working in Global IT like I do, we are very used to sitting on calls and video conferences at a desk at home, or office, or in the car or cafe. Where you are located really doesn't affect the work that is going on.

Regarding promotions, although the approach is slightly different, it's not difficult still to make yourself known through self publicity and networking within an organisation. I know some people are uncomfortable with that, and that it may be seen as brown-nosing, but its a fact of life that most senior management staff related decisions (such as in end of year performance reviews, bonus allocations, new assignments, promotion opportunities, and even rounds of redundancies) are based around knowing the person, and having support from managers beyond just your own. So building a positive impression and having some form of relationship with those with influence is a very important thing.

So I say to anyone I work with, and manage, that proactive self promotion is as much an important part of your role as doing the work, and to ensure time is allocated to do this. Although you should cast your net wide in building a network, start with your boss and tell them what you want, as they are the immediate link to higher decision makers and can help guide you in what has to happen. I obviously support and promote my own staff and the team as part of this (also to help me look good!) when they are doing good work too.

I've not found it that difficult during lockdown to do this, in fact in some cases it has been easier, such as booking or attending meetings with influential stakeholders and discuss ideas or issues seems a bit easier when people are WFH.

[LargeRed]

Working from home limiting progression?

I know a guy who is retiring at the end of the year. He thinks he has retired early as hasn't been in the office this year at all.

[TheGreatDane]

Exact opposite in my company.

Visibility on who does what has improved immensely and such the rewards with it.

Great for some, terrible for others as they are being caught out now.

[anonymous-user]

Jamescrs said:

toon10 said:

Possibly. My career achievements were no better or worse than anyone else's but I managed to progress by being able to demonstrate what I did to those in more senior positions. Get your face known and all that. You can still "sell" what' you've done online but it probably helps to be in the room with people to get better known and have those after demo conversations over a coffee.

I'm fully WFH now and have no desire for anymore career progression so happy to stay out of the limelight while the money is good and the pressure is low. If I were a younger man and wanting to climb the ladder again, I'd be looking at getting in the office as much as I could.

I think this pretty much sums it up well.

I agree.

I'm no better at my job than others, but I have managed to get myself to where I want by being personable, showing willing, offering to get involved in other business functions/decision, and actively trying to get on the right side of those above me or those who make the big decisions.

By 'actively trying' I mean stuff like being engaging people in conversations, being positive, and usually always saying yes to stuff like "We are going out for lunch/dinner today, would you like to come?" and so on.

In some ways you have to be a bit of a Social Chameleon*. I would love to say my progress has been due to be being amazing at my job, but that would be a lie. I try hard at my work, I'm reliable and honest, but I would attribute a chunk of my success to being someone who is smartly dressed, positive, polite, well spoken, and with the mannerisms and wit of someone who was privately educated. (make of that what you want )

People like me might have struggled to do as well if the last 20 years had consisted of WFH, little social or personal interaction, and our careers defined purely on measurable output of work rather than how we hold our knife and fork at dinner, or a discussion about owning classic cars.

It's a brave new world, which I have no doubt many will welcome and say is overdue

(* Social Chameleon - Description - A person who pays close attention to social cues and will mimic the behaviour and attitudes of others. This social flexibility is often a very useful skill, with its psychological roots in our human need to feel socially included)

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 24th September 11:35