Paternity leave
Discussion
Quick one. I work in a very male dominated field and recently had a new starter join up, who is of the female variety. She had a kid and took her Marernity leave in full, naturally. Where I work the blokes get 12 days Paternity leave and that’s that, but am I entitled to the same amount of leave that the women get? 2021 and all that. I ask this from a general legal perspective.
Financially in our situation it makes much more sense for me to stay at home and for the Mrs to return to work (which I’d actually rather not do, but she’s on about double my salary and doesn’t get a huge deal of maternity leave herself…).
Financially in our situation it makes much more sense for me to stay at home and for the Mrs to return to work (which I’d actually rather not do, but she’s on about double my salary and doesn’t get a huge deal of maternity leave herself…).
https://www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave
Google suggests shared parental leave might be what you’re after, assuming it’s offered.
Google suggests shared parental leave might be what you’re after, assuming it’s offered.
edc said:
From a statutory pay perspective there is not a lot of difference between maternity or paternity payments. What you really need to look at is the policies of your respective employers and establish what level of pay over and above statutory is paid and for how long.
Statutory doesn’t really factor in, given the amount. My place is two weeks Paternity or 6 months full pay Maternity, which seems like a huge disparity. My question really is can my employer be compelled to grant Maternity leave to a father given they’ve done so for a female employee in the exact same job role if the father is the primary caregiver. No an employer isn’t compelled to give the father the same rights as the mother,
I sure I read somewhere that a couple of serving police officers took a case to court to argue that the father get paternity benefits as his wife (the mother) was being offered on maternity benefits by the police force.
The outcome found against them, they argued that the father should have the same chance to bond with the child as the mother if that is the parents wishes. The court rules that the benefits were nothing to do with bonding with the child and that the purpose of maternity leave is to allow the mother to recover from child birth
I sure I read somewhere that a couple of serving police officers took a case to court to argue that the father get paternity benefits as his wife (the mother) was being offered on maternity benefits by the police force.
The outcome found against them, they argued that the father should have the same chance to bond with the child as the mother if that is the parents wishes. The court rules that the benefits were nothing to do with bonding with the child and that the purpose of maternity leave is to allow the mother to recover from child birth
forrestgrump said:
Statutory doesn’t really factor in, given the amount. My place is two weeks Paternity or 6 months full pay Maternity, which seems like a huge disparity. My question really is can my employer be compelled to grant Maternity leave to a father given they’ve done so for a female employee in the exact same job role if the father is the primary caregiver.
There are statutory leave periods for maternity and paternity. If your argument was to hold true the law would have to be changed. But as mentioned already there is in more recent years shared parental leave. As I mentioned though the statutory payment amounts are similar. If for example your wife gets full pay for 12 months with her employer you won't get the 12 months full pay as you are not an employee of that employer. NuckyThompson said:
No an employer isn’t compelled to give the father the same rights as the mother,
I sure I read somewhere that a couple of serving police officers took a case to court to argue that the father get paternity benefits as his wife (the mother) was being offered on maternity benefits by the police force.
The outcome found against them, they argued that the father should have the same chance to bond with the child as the mother if that is the parents wishes. The court rules that the benefits were nothing to do with bonding with the child and that the purpose of maternity leave is to allow the mother to recover from child birth
I suppose this makes sense, in my case however it isn’t to spend time with baby and bond or anything lofty and abstract, it’s financially the best way of doing it. I assume in the case of the officers they were angling for them both to be off with full pay for the same time rather than just one? I sure I read somewhere that a couple of serving police officers took a case to court to argue that the father get paternity benefits as his wife (the mother) was being offered on maternity benefits by the police force.
The outcome found against them, they argued that the father should have the same chance to bond with the child as the mother if that is the parents wishes. The court rules that the benefits were nothing to do with bonding with the child and that the purpose of maternity leave is to allow the mother to recover from child birth
Maybe I’m coming off ignorant, but first child and all that and it makes very little sense that I’m holding the same employment contract as a woman, I have a child to look after, and our paid leave to do that varies by two weeks to six months! Baffling. I get the recovery element but then it’s strange some employers are giving out 12 months and some only 3, which is the case for my Mrs.
My employer is 2 weeks.
In future I'm sure we'll look back and wonder how we were so backwards. I get that women need to recover from childbirth but it amazes me that Ryanair for example gets slated for having a gender pay gap purely because they have more male pilots than female ones yet no one seems to bat an eyelid about the discrimination around maternity/paternity leave.
It already seems ridiculous that women used to be able to retire earlier than men and that's only been corrected in the last couple of years.
Reckon I had my kids 5 years too early although work is substantially easier than looking after babies full time
the option would be nice though.
I wasn't working when we had our first and it's noticeable how much I'm missing with the second.
In future I'm sure we'll look back and wonder how we were so backwards. I get that women need to recover from childbirth but it amazes me that Ryanair for example gets slated for having a gender pay gap purely because they have more male pilots than female ones yet no one seems to bat an eyelid about the discrimination around maternity/paternity leave.
It already seems ridiculous that women used to be able to retire earlier than men and that's only been corrected in the last couple of years.
Reckon I had my kids 5 years too early although work is substantially easier than looking after babies full time
the option would be nice though. I wasn't working when we had our first and it's noticeable how much I'm missing with the second.
forrestgrump said:
I suppose this makes sense, in my case however it isn’t to spend time with baby and bond or anything lofty and abstract, it’s financially the best way of doing it. I assume in the case of the officers they were angling for them both to be off with full pay for the same time rather than just one?
Maybe I’m coming off ignorant, but first child and all that and it makes very little sense that I’m holding the same employment contract as a woman, I have a child to look after, and our paid leave to do that varies by two weeks to six months! Baffling. I get the recovery element but then it’s strange some employers are giving out 12 months and some only 3, which is the case for my Mrs.
I’m I remember rightly the mother was far more senior than the father. I think it was implied that talking maternity would hurt her career aspirations with her husband just being a Bobby on the street it made financial and career sense for the father to take the ‘maternity leave’ so she could continue to climb the ladder. Maybe I’m coming off ignorant, but first child and all that and it makes very little sense that I’m holding the same employment contract as a woman, I have a child to look after, and our paid leave to do that varies by two weeks to six months! Baffling. I get the recovery element but then it’s strange some employers are giving out 12 months and some only 3, which is the case for my Mrs.
https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/e...
How long until some snowflake wokey claims they identify as a pregnant woman even though they’re transgender or something like that and causes an uproar lol
How long until some snowflake wokey claims they identify as a pregnant woman even though they’re transgender or something like that and causes an uproar lol
forrestgrump said:
Maybe I’m coming off ignorant, but first child and all that and it makes very little sense that I’m holding the same employment contract as a woman, I have a child to look after, and our paid leave to do that varies by two weeks to six months! Baffling.
It's not baffling, it's biology. Your body hasn't been carrying and growing an additional human inside it requiring massive changes in your cardiovascular system, respiratory system, digestive system, bones, ligaments, muscles, other organ systems and a flood of hormones. Your body hasn't gone through the physical insult of childbirth - even an "easy" childbirth is a massive insult on the body, and it needs time to recover. Also, as well as recovery, it's a biological fact that men don't breastfeed. Granted, many women also don't these days, but many do, at least for a period. Your body hasn't continued with the cyclical hormonal floods while you breastfeed, and even after you stop breast feeding, or even if you never do. Men are much more involved in the lives of their children these days, and I'm proud to be one of those men, but do think about biology as you ponder how parental leave legislation has developed, and the reason for the disparity.forrestgrump said:
I get the recovery element but then it’s strange some employers are giving out 12 months and some only 3, which is the case for my Mrs.
If you're in UK, maternity leave is 12 months by law, your wife's can't be just 3 months. Your wife's employer can't reduce it to 3 months on a whim either. Statutory maternity pay (SMP) is 90% of their average weekly earnings (AWE) before tax for the first 6 weeks, £151.97 or 90% of their AWE (whichever is lower) for the next 33 weeks, and unpaid for the remaining 13 weeks. An employer can offer more generous terms than that, but not less than that. If her employer isn't following the legislation, you should get some legal advice.Shared parental leave is what you want.
I did it with both my kids. We compared what parental leave pay we would get and my wife's company offered better maternity pay at the start, so it made sense for her to be off. However when it got to the end of the last few months and neither of us would be paid, it made more sense for my wife to go back to work (as she ears more than me) and for me to look after the baby. I had a great time!
I did it with both my kids. We compared what parental leave pay we would get and my wife's company offered better maternity pay at the start, so it made sense for her to be off. However when it got to the end of the last few months and neither of us would be paid, it made more sense for my wife to go back to work (as she ears more than me) and for me to look after the baby. I had a great time!
Blimey, paternity so much more generous now.
With our first (20 odd yrs ago) I got 3 days paid (the statutory minimum).
4-5 yrs later the statutory minimum had increased to 1 wk paid (at SMP, not my actual pay), 1 wk unpaid. Couldn’t afford to take unpaid leave, so used holiday allowance.
I know there’ll be those on here who had kids in the last millennium and got nothing.
Still think statutory minimum for paternity leave is too low and should be something like a month at full pay.
With our first (20 odd yrs ago) I got 3 days paid (the statutory minimum).
4-5 yrs later the statutory minimum had increased to 1 wk paid (at SMP, not my actual pay), 1 wk unpaid. Couldn’t afford to take unpaid leave, so used holiday allowance.
I know there’ll be those on here who had kids in the last millennium and got nothing.
Still think statutory minimum for paternity leave is too low and should be something like a month at full pay.
Edited by Pinkie15 on Friday 26th November 14:37
NuckyThompson said:
https://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/e...
How long until some snowflake wokey claims they identify as a pregnant woman even though they’re transgender or something like that and causes an uproar lol
Where would they get the MATB1 form from?How long until some snowflake wokey claims they identify as a pregnant woman even though they’re transgender or something like that and causes an uproar lol
This might upset you but some firms already offer same-sex couples Adoption Leave equivalent to Maternity Leave.
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