Employing an ex convict who just served a 12 year sentence
Discussion
A seemingly nice guy walked into my work premises earlier today, struck up a good conversation with me then asked if we might be hiring. By shear chance, I will be posting 2 jobs later this week so I lit up and told him he might be in luck.
He went on to very openly say he has just been released from prison where he did 5.5 years for rape. I was taken back, but we continued talking for quite some time about all sorts, and with genuine interest I enquired more into how they manage his reintroduction into society etc. I didn't pry more about his crime and remained neutral, though he said he has children and is subject to an exclusion zone on the other side of town (I imagine where his victim lives). It was a 12 year sentence.
He was polite and, annoyingly, his employment before going in would have made him a really good candidate for one of the vacancies we have. I told him I'll look over his CV, though he needs to understand its obviously a big ask and not to get his hopes up.
Chewed it over and while I do hold some faith in our justice system, the sad truth is its a role I will easily fill without needing to put myself out of my comfort zone so won't be taking it any further. I will however ring him and tell him... rightly or wrongly I do feel for his current situation and the last thing he probably needs right now is someone else abandoning him (though that's exactly what I'm doing, at least over the phone I can do so sincerely). If his crime was different, I may have reached a different conclusion or taken a chance on him, but with female staff its a risk I simply don't need to take. Also... 12 years
I'm interested to hear from other company owners. Would you or have you ever given an ex convict a chance? Did it work out? Where would you draw the line?
He went on to very openly say he has just been released from prison where he did 5.5 years for rape. I was taken back, but we continued talking for quite some time about all sorts, and with genuine interest I enquired more into how they manage his reintroduction into society etc. I didn't pry more about his crime and remained neutral, though he said he has children and is subject to an exclusion zone on the other side of town (I imagine where his victim lives). It was a 12 year sentence.
He was polite and, annoyingly, his employment before going in would have made him a really good candidate for one of the vacancies we have. I told him I'll look over his CV, though he needs to understand its obviously a big ask and not to get his hopes up.
Chewed it over and while I do hold some faith in our justice system, the sad truth is its a role I will easily fill without needing to put myself out of my comfort zone so won't be taking it any further. I will however ring him and tell him... rightly or wrongly I do feel for his current situation and the last thing he probably needs right now is someone else abandoning him (though that's exactly what I'm doing, at least over the phone I can do so sincerely). If his crime was different, I may have reached a different conclusion or taken a chance on him, but with female staff its a risk I simply don't need to take. Also... 12 years
I'm interested to hear from other company owners. Would you or have you ever given an ex convict a chance? Did it work out? Where would you draw the line?
Best of luck wrestling with that one.
I've employed quite a few people, never as a company owner and fortunately the majority within education which has clear guidelines.
It's a hard one, if he's the best on paper and interview, it'll come down to your views, the views of your staff and customers.
Unless you've a very sensible reason for rejection, e.g. 20 other better candidates; I'd seek some advice, I'm assuming as it was 12 years it's never spent, so he'd have to tell you regardless???
For me (which is easy to say on the internet) I'd prefer not to employ, the negative effects on staff and customers could be an issue; however if you're struggling and this'll not be a problem, that's a different matter.
Best of luck!!
I've employed quite a few people, never as a company owner and fortunately the majority within education which has clear guidelines.
It's a hard one, if he's the best on paper and interview, it'll come down to your views, the views of your staff and customers.
Unless you've a very sensible reason for rejection, e.g. 20 other better candidates; I'd seek some advice, I'm assuming as it was 12 years it's never spent, so he'd have to tell you regardless???
For me (which is easy to say on the internet) I'd prefer not to employ, the negative effects on staff and customers could be an issue; however if you're struggling and this'll not be a problem, that's a different matter.
Best of luck!!
I would give an ex con a chance (im building trade).
But
It depends what they were inside for, bit of fighting, drug dealing, that sort of stuff, then yea maybe, especially if i felt they were a decent person who wanted to get on.
But rape is serious, especially if you've got woman employees as well.
I dont know what you do but imagine if word got round that you 'employ rapists'. Thats no good at all.
Also depends on the circumstances as well, did he actively go out and target a woman and rape them? or was it a drunken thing where they said no but he carried on (not that its acceptable) although 12 years doesnt say she just changed her mind tbh.
A couple of weeks back i was approached by someone looking for work and while i could probably take him on i immediately didn't like how he was, almost bragging how he had just got out, must have been 30 riding a push bike all hooded up and when some group of losers came down the road he told me 'it might go off here'
err yea ill give it a miss mate
But
It depends what they were inside for, bit of fighting, drug dealing, that sort of stuff, then yea maybe, especially if i felt they were a decent person who wanted to get on.
But rape is serious, especially if you've got woman employees as well.
I dont know what you do but imagine if word got round that you 'employ rapists'. Thats no good at all.
Also depends on the circumstances as well, did he actively go out and target a woman and rape them? or was it a drunken thing where they said no but he carried on (not that its acceptable) although 12 years doesnt say she just changed her mind tbh.
A couple of weeks back i was approached by someone looking for work and while i could probably take him on i immediately didn't like how he was, almost bragging how he had just got out, must have been 30 riding a push bike all hooded up and when some group of losers came down the road he told me 'it might go off here'
err yea ill give it a miss mate
m3jappa said:
But rape is serious, especially if you've got woman employees as well.
I dont know what you do but imagine if word got round that you 'employ rapists'. Thats no good at all.
Also depends on the circumstances as well, did he actively go out and target a woman and rape them? or was it a drunken thing where they said no but he carried on (not that its acceptable) although 12 years doesnt say she just changed her mind tbh.
Completely agree with your sentiment. They’re all questions I would have asked but like you have said, 12 years is highly unlikely to simply be because of a misunderstanding so it was pointless even asking the questions. I dont know what you do but imagine if word got round that you 'employ rapists'. Thats no good at all.
Also depends on the circumstances as well, did he actively go out and target a woman and rape them? or was it a drunken thing where they said no but he carried on (not that its acceptable) although 12 years doesnt say she just changed her mind tbh.
Agreed too ref company perception - reformed drug addict, OK, you can almost spin that positively. This? No way, never.
As a serving prison officer, I can tell you it can get quite messy removing the person from the crime they committed. Some of the nicest men I've ever had to look after have done the most awful things, and some of the most horrible men are inside for relatively low level stuff. I've worked with convicted rapists before, and not all of them are the kind of people you associate with that crime.
FWIW, I'd say go with your gut, whatever that is telling you. Yes, he would have had to disclose his crime to you if you'd asked and he will likely have some licence conditions that may write him out of the job already, but the fact he's been so open already may make him someone you can rely on for the truth should push come to shove. Others finding out his crime may make your life a headache as has already been said, but just because he's committed that crime once does not mean he'll do it again. As someone who has been an employer in the past I don't envy your choice here (although it does sound like you've already passed on him assuming you've made the call already), but ultimately I believe in rehabilitation else I wouldn't do the job I do. Doesn't mean I can't see both sides here though.
FWIW, I'd say go with your gut, whatever that is telling you. Yes, he would have had to disclose his crime to you if you'd asked and he will likely have some licence conditions that may write him out of the job already, but the fact he's been so open already may make him someone you can rely on for the truth should push come to shove. Others finding out his crime may make your life a headache as has already been said, but just because he's committed that crime once does not mean he'll do it again. As someone who has been an employer in the past I don't envy your choice here (although it does sound like you've already passed on him assuming you've made the call already), but ultimately I believe in rehabilitation else I wouldn't do the job I do. Doesn't mean I can't see both sides here though.
Are All cases are on public record? Can you go and read the prosecution's case ?
The problem I have is that, unless criminals are rehabilitated, by honest work, what the f
k are they to do ?
Other than become self employed odd job men? In which case they could be in and out of unsuspecting people's houses all day every day.
The problem I have is that, unless criminals are rehabilitated, by honest work, what the f
k are they to do ? Other than become self employed odd job men? In which case they could be in and out of unsuspecting people's houses all day every day.
I employed someone previously convicted of a non-violent crime. Best employee I ever had. But its a dificult one as someone I know was convicted of domestic violence and I know for a fact he was beaten more than she was but he still lost his job over it.
Rape however, thats a whole different league. I would not be comfortable with that.
Rape however, thats a whole different league. I would not be comfortable with that.
Ekona said:
As a serving prison officer, I can tell you it can get quite messy removing the person from the crime they committed. Some of the nicest men I've ever had to look after have done the most awful things, and some of the most horrible men are inside for relatively low level stuff. I've worked with convicted rapists before, and not all of them are the kind of people you associate with that crime.
FWIW, I'd say go with your gut, whatever that is telling you. Yes, he would have had to disclose his crime to you if you'd asked and he will likely have some licence conditions that may write him out of the job already, but the fact he's been so open already may make him someone you can rely on for the truth should push come to shove. Others finding out his crime may make your life a headache as has already been said, but just because he's committed that crime once does not mean he'll do it again. As someone who has been an employer in the past I don't envy your choice here (although it does sound like you've already passed on him assuming you've made the call already), but ultimately I believe in rehabilitation else I wouldn't do the job I do. Doesn't mean I can't see both sides here though.
Thank you, some interesting points. I haven't called yet, but my decision is made.FWIW, I'd say go with your gut, whatever that is telling you. Yes, he would have had to disclose his crime to you if you'd asked and he will likely have some licence conditions that may write him out of the job already, but the fact he's been so open already may make him someone you can rely on for the truth should push come to shove. Others finding out his crime may make your life a headache as has already been said, but just because he's committed that crime once does not mean he'll do it again. As someone who has been an employer in the past I don't envy your choice here (although it does sound like you've already passed on him assuming you've made the call already), but ultimately I believe in rehabilitation else I wouldn't do the job I do. Doesn't mean I can't see both sides here though.
It's a shame as I definitely saw/felt some good in him, but ultimately its a headache I just don't need and we will be inundated with applications once we go live with the listing. It has, however, opened my eyes to how sentencing really means f all when it comes to a crime like this. Whether you serve 5, 10, 15 or 20+ years, the lack of opportunity once you're on the outside again will be identical. Its a crime no one is willing to forgive for, and rightly so.
Audicab said:
I once employed somebody who had just completed 5.5 years of a 10-year sentence. Turned into one of the most reliable, hard-working and trustworthy members of staff I've ever had. He's worked with me on and off for 15 years.
Would I do it for rape, I really don't know.
Thanks for sharing this.Would I do it for rape, I really don't know.
What made you give him a chance in the first place?
Are you able to share what his crime was, even if vaguely?
Company reputation to one side, I would consider hiring a reformed thief, drug dealer, maybe even a manslaughter convict. Rapist though, I've decided is a no.
My initial thought was to give him a chance, he seems very credible.
Then I read Rape - 12 years - and you employ women.
So, most definitely, NO.
Imagine how female employees would feel, every day (they'd soon find out) - and any respect they had for you would be gone too.
Right decision.
Then I read Rape - 12 years - and you employ women.
So, most definitely, NO.
Imagine how female employees would feel, every day (they'd soon find out) - and any respect they had for you would be gone too.
Right decision.
Truckosaurus said:
I'm all for 2nd chances and all that.
But, the biggest red flag from the info in the OP is that the chap has an exclusion zone and as hinted at by the OP this means the victim is local so might be known to the rest of the workforce or customer base.
This would be my concern. But, the biggest red flag from the info in the OP is that the chap has an exclusion zone and as hinted at by the OP this means the victim is local so might be known to the rest of the workforce or customer base.
Timpsons have ten percent of their staff who are ex-offenders, the owner is very committed to giving people a second chance and has been in the media for years about it. Nowadays prisons are just holding facilities that do not offer much training, in anything legal, once prisoners get out so it is very difficult to break the cycle of offending if there are few jobs available for those released.
You could no doubt Google this bloke’s name and find details of his court case if you wanted to.
You could no doubt Google this bloke’s name and find details of his court case if you wanted to.
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