Employer has changed qualification needed for the job
Discussion
Hi everyone, after covid I found myself unemployed and a job came up at my children's primary school for a minibus driver. (Sept 2021 is when I started).
This has worked out fine as I can walk the kids to school, do what work is on, pick kids up and come home, and no worry's about childcare/school holidays etc. I've obviously had to cut my cloth to suit now working part time ( it's a 0 hour contract renewed every July).
The school has 2 minibuses and they go on a lot of trips, the job role is to look after the buses, drive the children where ever needed, and then stay with them as support and as first aiders (the school put the drivers through the first aid courses, I've just refreshed mine for the 2nd time). The job advert was to be over 25, clean license, no criminal record/can pass a DBS check.
The school has also put us through a Midas course in 2022, which the course leader mentioned the loophole that allows people without a D1 on their license to drive school minibuses, and that since most staff in schools tend to be younger and don't have it as grandfather rights. I don't have it as passed my test in '98.
Now, out of the blue they have rang me yesterday saying I need a D1 to be able to drive the buses and so, I am out of the job. There was a brief mention of them putting me through the course but they then skipped past it as if it wasn't meant to be mentioned (It's approx £1500 so I doubt they'll pay it, and based on my average pay being around £500, and nothing during the many days holidays it's probably not worth me putting myself through it either).
I've looked online and seems I can drive the buses and I mentioned this to the business manager but that was dismissed so finding concrete evidence would be helpful (she mentioned a long list of acronyms and I wasn't sure to what she was referring too), but also, can they as employers just say after 4.5 years and around 16000 miles of driving that we've changed our criteria and see you later?
I'm due another phone call on Monday but since this was Friday afternoon I cannot see anything changing, and next weeks rota is out with other staff down as driving and not me.
This has worked out fine as I can walk the kids to school, do what work is on, pick kids up and come home, and no worry's about childcare/school holidays etc. I've obviously had to cut my cloth to suit now working part time ( it's a 0 hour contract renewed every July).
The school has 2 minibuses and they go on a lot of trips, the job role is to look after the buses, drive the children where ever needed, and then stay with them as support and as first aiders (the school put the drivers through the first aid courses, I've just refreshed mine for the 2nd time). The job advert was to be over 25, clean license, no criminal record/can pass a DBS check.
The school has also put us through a Midas course in 2022, which the course leader mentioned the loophole that allows people without a D1 on their license to drive school minibuses, and that since most staff in schools tend to be younger and don't have it as grandfather rights. I don't have it as passed my test in '98.
Now, out of the blue they have rang me yesterday saying I need a D1 to be able to drive the buses and so, I am out of the job. There was a brief mention of them putting me through the course but they then skipped past it as if it wasn't meant to be mentioned (It's approx £1500 so I doubt they'll pay it, and based on my average pay being around £500, and nothing during the many days holidays it's probably not worth me putting myself through it either).
I've looked online and seems I can drive the buses and I mentioned this to the business manager but that was dismissed so finding concrete evidence would be helpful (she mentioned a long list of acronyms and I wasn't sure to what she was referring too), but also, can they as employers just say after 4.5 years and around 16000 miles of driving that we've changed our criteria and see you later?
I'm due another phone call on Monday but since this was Friday afternoon I cannot see anything changing, and next weeks rota is out with other staff down as driving and not me.
What type of minibus are they? This is what it boils down to IMO.
Lots of schools and academies now run Minibus lite which are effectively converted 3.5t vans with 17 seats and are wheelchair adapted, do you drive these or are they traditional Ford Transit 17 seaters?
It would be in their interest to put you through the D1 if required, finding D1 drivers is becoming harder and harder. The government will have to change the rules at some point.
Lots of schools and academies now run Minibus lite which are effectively converted 3.5t vans with 17 seats and are wheelchair adapted, do you drive these or are they traditional Ford Transit 17 seaters?
It would be in their interest to put you through the D1 if required, finding D1 drivers is becoming harder and harder. The government will have to change the rules at some point.
The Rotrex Kid said:
What type of minibus are they? This is what it boils down to IMO.
Lots of schools and academies now run Minibus lite which are effectively converted 3.5t vans with 17 seats and are wheelchair adapted, do you drive these or are they traditional Ford Transit 17 seaters?
It would be in their interest to put you through the D1 if required, finding D1 drivers is becoming harder and harder. The government will have to change the rules at some point.
Sorry I missed that out, I tried to put as much info in without making it a novel, I tend to do that.Lots of schools and academies now run Minibus lite which are effectively converted 3.5t vans with 17 seats and are wheelchair adapted, do you drive these or are they traditional Ford Transit 17 seaters?
It would be in their interest to put you through the D1 if required, finding D1 drivers is becoming harder and harder. The government will have to change the rules at some point.
Its a Minibus Lite, converted Peugeot boxer, 17 seats with driver, is also wheel chair adapted but I have to take 4 seats out when we take the one child out from the school who is in a wheelchair.
There was only me and 1 other driver (first driver left as they mess you around a bit with cancelled shifts etc), 2nd driver is retired and like holidays so they employed a 3rd driver last year to cover any shifts we couldn't do, he's done a total of 2 shifts since last summer. He's also a driving instructor so I can't see him being able to pick up all the shifts (or even wanting to once he realises lots of the shifts are only a few hours at a time, the schools only at the top of my street so I'm ok with it, he lives in the next town over).
tbh I don't know why he wanted the job as makes £60 a 90 minute lesson whereas he'd only make £12.85 an hour at the school.
Hmmmm. I would unfortunately say that they are correct with this one.
If you worked for the school in another capacity (caretaker or similar) and drove the bus on a ‘voluntary basis’ then you’d be within the rules. As you’re being paid as a driver, you do need a D1 as per the DVLA rules, I’m quite surprised that they’ve only just picked up on it tbh.
I would go back and offer to complete a D1 with them paying, offer to sign a training payback agreement (if you’re not planning on leaving that is!) so that if you leave you pay them back a % of the cost?
If you worked for the school in another capacity (caretaker or similar) and drove the bus on a ‘voluntary basis’ then you’d be within the rules. As you’re being paid as a driver, you do need a D1 as per the DVLA rules, I’m quite surprised that they’ve only just picked up on it tbh.
I would go back and offer to complete a D1 with them paying, offer to sign a training payback agreement (if you’re not planning on leaving that is!) so that if you leave you pay them back a % of the cost?
Comes down to whether you're meployed specifically as a driver?
Section 19 of the transport act 1985 allows for non profit organisations or educational staff to transport persons on a minibus without a D1 licence. the school must be registered and display a sec 19 permit.
This would be the 'loophole' you mentioned, even though its not a loophole but actual law.
If your minibus is a 'lite' then it can be driven on a Cat B licence AS LONG as it doesn't exceed the 3.5t. Be careful if there's electric wheelchairs and or luggage (bags etc) as most can be pretty close to the weight limit with the vehicle, driver and passengers only.
I'm also assuming you've done the full MIDAS accessible training as opposed to the standard training in order to take persons in wheelchairs?
Section 19 of the transport act 1985 allows for non profit organisations or educational staff to transport persons on a minibus without a D1 licence. the school must be registered and display a sec 19 permit.
This would be the 'loophole' you mentioned, even though its not a loophole but actual law.
If your minibus is a 'lite' then it can be driven on a Cat B licence AS LONG as it doesn't exceed the 3.5t. Be careful if there's electric wheelchairs and or luggage (bags etc) as most can be pretty close to the weight limit with the vehicle, driver and passengers only.
I'm also assuming you've done the full MIDAS accessible training as opposed to the standard training in order to take persons in wheelchairs?
Edited by nordboy on Sunday 1st February 11:05
nordboy said:
If your minibus is a 'lite' then it can be driven on a Cat B licence AS LONG as it doesn't exceed the 3.5t. Be careful if there's electric wheelchairs and or luggage (bags etc) as most can be pretty close to the weight limit with the vehicle, driver and passengers only.
The ‘lite’ loophole on this is to make the bus wheelchair adapted (so with removable seats and ramp of some description) means that the allowance becomes 4250kg instead of 3500kg Edited by nordboy on Sunday 1st February 11:05
Thanks for the replies.
I am employed as a minibus driver as my job title, and the full MIDAS course was done about 8 months into the job.
We have 1 motorised wheelchair user at the school currently.
The driving aspect is only a portion of the job though as needing to support the kids during the trip which means there's more supporting than actual driving during the trips.
I am employed as a minibus driver as my job title, and the full MIDAS course was done about 8 months into the job.
We have 1 motorised wheelchair user at the school currently.
The driving aspect is only a portion of the job though as needing to support the kids during the trip which means there's more supporting than actual driving during the trips.
Sounds like 3 options
You do a D1 at your or their expense (I would propose to them that paying for you to a D1 is quicker, cheaper and simpler than replacing you!)
They change your job title to TA, you don’t actually get paid for driving minibuses, you support the students and the driving is voluntary….. wink wink.
You find something else to do.
I wonder how this has just come up? Something been said to them about the situation or a review where the legal implications have been raised? Let us know how you get on!
You do a D1 at your or their expense (I would propose to them that paying for you to a D1 is quicker, cheaper and simpler than replacing you!)
They change your job title to TA, you don’t actually get paid for driving minibuses, you support the students and the driving is voluntary….. wink wink.
You find something else to do.
I wonder how this has just come up? Something been said to them about the situation or a review where the legal implications have been raised? Let us know how you get on!
The Rotrex Kid said:
nordboy said:
If your minibus is a 'lite' then it can be driven on a Cat B licence AS LONG as it doesn't exceed the 3.5t. Be careful if there's electric wheelchairs and or luggage (bags etc) as most can be pretty close to the weight limit with the vehicle, driver and passengers only.
The lite loophole on this is to make the bus wheelchair adapted (so with removable seats and ramp of some description) means that the allowance becomes 4250kg instead of 3500kg Edited by nordboy on Sunday 1st February 11:05
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