Is a degree worth it nowadays?
Discussion
Hi All,
i have a 17 year old son, on his first year of A levels now looking at degrees. He's interested in Finance but not sure in what and is thinking about going to University which i feel could be a waste of time and money in today's world.
I prefer the idea of graduate placements, or entering the business world earlier, without a degree. I feel that the 3 year delay, and £60k debt just isnt worth it. Not saying that some jobs / careers need a degree but when you havent got a a clear pathway / requirement then are degrees worth it ?
Any other parents in a similar boat ? How does one find out about graduate placements ? is it a case of writing to every company or is there a better way of doing this ?
Wasting 3 years / leaving with £60K debt just doesnt make sense plus the interest on the loan is also ridiculous too.
Thoughts ? ideas ?
i have a 17 year old son, on his first year of A levels now looking at degrees. He's interested in Finance but not sure in what and is thinking about going to University which i feel could be a waste of time and money in today's world.
I prefer the idea of graduate placements, or entering the business world earlier, without a degree. I feel that the 3 year delay, and £60k debt just isnt worth it. Not saying that some jobs / careers need a degree but when you havent got a a clear pathway / requirement then are degrees worth it ?
Any other parents in a similar boat ? How does one find out about graduate placements ? is it a case of writing to every company or is there a better way of doing this ?
Wasting 3 years / leaving with £60K debt just doesnt make sense plus the interest on the loan is also ridiculous too.
Thoughts ? ideas ?
My eldest is 14 and about to start her GCSE years so a little further behind on the track but I have had similar thoughts myself on it.
My thoughts on it are that going to Uni now needs careful consideration and should not just be the next natural step as it was some years ago. I think that if someone has a specific career choice and that choice requires a degree in a specific area then it is still a good option, i'm sure there are many but the obvious things are Medicine and Law.
I will be advising my daughter that if she does not know what she wants to do and is going just for the student lifestyle she should think very carefully with the whole student loans system as it is.
I have a niece who is 18 and coming to the end of her A levels now was at one point dead set on going to Uni with the view long term of becoming a primary school teacher but she is now looking into other avenues through apprenticeships.
I think now it is important not to just have a career path in mind but to see what likely vacancies there are in the sector for people qualifying.
My thoughts on it are that going to Uni now needs careful consideration and should not just be the next natural step as it was some years ago. I think that if someone has a specific career choice and that choice requires a degree in a specific area then it is still a good option, i'm sure there are many but the obvious things are Medicine and Law.
I will be advising my daughter that if she does not know what she wants to do and is going just for the student lifestyle she should think very carefully with the whole student loans system as it is.
I have a niece who is 18 and coming to the end of her A levels now was at one point dead set on going to Uni with the view long term of becoming a primary school teacher but she is now looking into other avenues through apprenticeships.
I think now it is important not to just have a career path in mind but to see what likely vacancies there are in the sector for people qualifying.
Not a parent, but a lot depends on which uni he is thinking of going to. University of Cambridge - yes. University of S
horpe - no. Also worth thinking about whether he could get a job in the current market, as going to uni might be expensive but better than doing nothing for three years.
horpe - no. Also worth thinking about whether he could get a job in the current market, as going to uni might be expensive but better than doing nothing for three years.I think for certain jobs then yes, but for many others as you say it is simply a way of starting your working life with a lot of debt. Thankfully schools are no longer pushing all children in that direction and I think a more pragmatic approach towards alternatives is welcome.
Like any commodity over supply has resulted in reduced value. There are studies which show that graduates earn more over a lifetime of work, but would the same still be true of those individuals chose a different path? i.e. is it the degree which makes the difference, or the intellect or work ethic of the individual? Do they earn more because of the degree, or because of who they are?
I have three children, the eldest two are still a few years away from leaving school, but it is definitely looming large on the horizon. We certainly won't be pushing them in one direction or another, and not going to university won't be judged as failure, as it perhaps was for my generation.
Like any commodity over supply has resulted in reduced value. There are studies which show that graduates earn more over a lifetime of work, but would the same still be true of those individuals chose a different path? i.e. is it the degree which makes the difference, or the intellect or work ethic of the individual? Do they earn more because of the degree, or because of who they are?
I have three children, the eldest two are still a few years away from leaving school, but it is definitely looming large on the horizon. We certainly won't be pushing them in one direction or another, and not going to university won't be judged as failure, as it perhaps was for my generation.
In the same boat here and it’s tricky. One the one hand the degree sets you apart academically and importantly can teach life skills and independence if away from home. On the other, it’s a very expensive way of getting this currently. Was half hoping labour would make uni free again but that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
First thing to think about is whether there are there finance companies taking on non-graduates and providing training currently, and if so, what are his chances of getting a place there?
We had a local engineering firm offering post-A level apprenticeships and they had around 500 applications for 20 places, so the odds aren't that great.
We had a local engineering firm offering post-A level apprenticeships and they had around 500 applications for 20 places, so the odds aren't that great.
Badda said:
In the same boat here and it s tricky. One the one hand the degree sets you apart academically and importantly can teach life skills and independence if away from home. On the other, it s a very expensive way of getting this currently. Was half hoping labour would make uni free again but that s not going to happen anytime soon.
I think part of the issue is having a degree doesn't set a person apart academically anymore because up until very recently and maybe still it is expected that a person has a degree. It almost requires a Masters Degree or PHD now to set someone apart academically and then people entering the jobs marketplace with those qualifications are often considered overqualified for entry roles. My opinion is that yes a degree is still worthwhile and three years (or more) at university is a good experience BUT I don't think it's so important to rush into it straight from university and maybe pick the wrong subject and/or drift. If you don't have an idea of what you want to do then I wouldn't rush straight in but go and start work, try some things out, learn a little about yourself and find a path, maybe it will be one without a degree and maybe you'll find something that really needs one.
I would look for an apprenticeship is a degree is in doubt.
Great way for a youngster to start and a degree can then be done later (Often with the companies help if they value you)
Hardest bit for a lot of kids, is working out what they want to do so why not have a couple of years earning and learning.
Of course, they are probably harder to find. One of ours did a Teaching assistant apprenticeship and then did his teaching degree.
Great way for a youngster to start and a degree can then be done later (Often with the companies help if they value you)
Hardest bit for a lot of kids, is working out what they want to do so why not have a couple of years earning and learning.
Of course, they are probably harder to find. One of ours did a Teaching assistant apprenticeship and then did his teaching degree.
The Golden Ticket these days seems to be a degree apprenticeship at an established firm. They pay for your degree and pay you to work. You don t get the party lifestyle like at Uni, but you graduate with work experience, no debt and some manners.
They are very competitive though. Harder to get a place than at a Russell Group University, bit easier than Oxbridge.
Something like this maybe?
https://careers.db.com/School-leavers-uk/investmen...
They are very competitive though. Harder to get a place than at a Russell Group University, bit easier than Oxbridge.
Something like this maybe?
https://careers.db.com/School-leavers-uk/investmen...
Edited by wyson on Tuesday 21st April 16:13
At work amongst the new starters you can tell those who have been to uni and those who haven’t.
Those who have degrees tend to know how to learn, picking things up quicker and more independently.
They all get there in the end but the graduates do seem to a bit more “rounded” as people, easier to mesh with on a personal level and less like a school kid.
That’s on average, there are those who buck the trend both ways so your mileage may vary.
Those who have degrees tend to know how to learn, picking things up quicker and more independently.
They all get there in the end but the graduates do seem to a bit more “rounded” as people, easier to mesh with on a personal level and less like a school kid.
That’s on average, there are those who buck the trend both ways so your mileage may vary.
wyson said:
The Golden Ticket these days seems to be a degree apprenticeship at an established firm. They pay for your degree and pay you to work. You don t get the party lifestyle like at Uni, but you graduate with work experience, no debt and some manners.
They are very competitive though. Harder to get a place than at a Russell Group University, bit easier than Oxbridge.
Something like this maybe?
https://careers.db.com/School-leavers-uk/investmen...
The party lifestyle is best obtained thru travel IMO, anyway. They are very competitive though. Harder to get a place than at a Russell Group University, bit easier than Oxbridge.
Something like this maybe?
https://careers.db.com/School-leavers-uk/investmen...
Edited by wyson on Tuesday 21st April 16:13
My son went to University got his degree and then a Masters. Managed to get a good job with one of the big accountancy firms and is now a Chartered Accountant. His degree had nothing to do with Finance but non the less is useful (Psychology).
He worked hard and played hard, made some lifelong friends and is a rounded and very self sufficient individual.
Yes he has circa £50k debt and it cost us a few bob but, IMO well worthwhile.
He worked hard and played hard, made some lifelong friends and is a rounded and very self sufficient individual.
Yes he has circa £50k debt and it cost us a few bob but, IMO well worthwhile.
My son is doing a Civil Engineering degree apprenticeship. It requires a fair bit of commitment, he is on site a great deal so lots of 6am starts, and there is extended work for Uni too which needs to be done outside of the working hours of the 4 days at work so sometimes late evenings too. His choice though as he wanted to be earning money now.
Seems to be going ok, in his second year and the employer wants to start another apprentice in September and asked him to be on the interview panel to give the candidates a flavour of the role.
Seems to be going ok, in his second year and the employer wants to start another apprentice in September and asked him to be on the interview panel to give the candidates a flavour of the role.
I think I'd be steering him to some sort of trade given the pace of change with AI etc. Finance strikes me as exactly the sort of white collar work that may pay well today but in a decade will be decimated by technology. Meanwhile, try getting a decent trade, any trade. Most are chancers who are on day rates approaching those of white collar professionals but with none of the ethics. AI ain't going to fix your plumbing or electrics any time soon. Get decently trained and be professional about it and I don't think you'll ever be out of work. That maybe wasn't the case several decades ago when most people had a level of mechanical skill and there wasn't the certification needed for relatively simple jobs. Lots of those capabilities in the general population are gone but the need is still very much there.
Getting qualifications through work is definitely the way to go- but you've got to get your foot in the door first.
In my field (H&S) that's relatively easy, just get involved in that at your place of work.
Be a bit awkward in HR though
Might look to a cert/diploma etc and build up that way. Pretty common in Healthcare, outside of the usual doctor/surgeon pathways
I've a masters, MBA, professional certs etc. Work paid for all except the first.
M.
In my field (H&S) that's relatively easy, just get involved in that at your place of work.
Be a bit awkward in HR though
Might look to a cert/diploma etc and build up that way. Pretty common in Healthcare, outside of the usual doctor/surgeon pathways
I've a masters, MBA, professional certs etc. Work paid for all except the first.
M.
Firstly many thanks for replying everyone. Its reassuring that many are in a similar situation.
Thanks to the person who provided that link too. Ive told my son to take a look and apply.
Its a difficult one. I have a degree but I went to uni back in the early 90s when grants were given. I do agree that uni teaches you to learn or in my case plagiarism lol. My degree was in IT but when leaving uni I then wanted to be a scafforder but my dad went mad. I ended up in IT eventually, fast forward 30 years and I did quite well.
I do agree that degrees seem to have lost thier gravitas plus the debt is shocking. Many subjects seem to be pointless to me, plus AI will change the work horizon. IT will be an area where this will happen for sure. Law too.
I will start looking around for graduate placements and see what happens.
Thanks to the person who provided that link too. Ive told my son to take a look and apply.
Its a difficult one. I have a degree but I went to uni back in the early 90s when grants were given. I do agree that uni teaches you to learn or in my case plagiarism lol. My degree was in IT but when leaving uni I then wanted to be a scafforder but my dad went mad. I ended up in IT eventually, fast forward 30 years and I did quite well.
I do agree that degrees seem to have lost thier gravitas plus the debt is shocking. Many subjects seem to be pointless to me, plus AI will change the work horizon. IT will be an area where this will happen for sure. Law too.
I will start looking around for graduate placements and see what happens.
Edited by sbk1972 on Tuesday 21st April 19:45
What sort of finance is he thinking?
If it needs maths/physics/economics I’d say get the degree, uni is huge fun and a life changing experience. It also gives you the fall back of a very useful degree.
If not, I’d look at the apprenticeship ways into the banks/commercial co’s and go that way - there will be a cohort each year so you’ll get a bit of ‘uni’ as they all stick together and develop collectively.
Best of luck to him.
If it needs maths/physics/economics I’d say get the degree, uni is huge fun and a life changing experience. It also gives you the fall back of a very useful degree.
If not, I’d look at the apprenticeship ways into the banks/commercial co’s and go that way - there will be a cohort each year so you’ll get a bit of ‘uni’ as they all stick together and develop collectively.
Best of luck to him.
Degree apprenticeship, if possible.
My brother and I done them when they were not too heard of almost a decade ago, and doing so has significantly advanced our career progressions.
If that isn't an option in the particular field he's wanting to go into, then a normal degree from a good Uni I think is still entirely worthwhile and relevant. And crucially, work experience/placements where possible too.
Its about the most attractive CV in such a competitive market.
My brother and I done them when they were not too heard of almost a decade ago, and doing so has significantly advanced our career progressions.
If that isn't an option in the particular field he's wanting to go into, then a normal degree from a good Uni I think is still entirely worthwhile and relevant. And crucially, work experience/placements where possible too.
Its about the most attractive CV in such a competitive market.
The best gig there is is an in service degree with the forces.
Instead of being £50k in debt you get paid £50k a year to go to university.
Your accommodation is paid for in addition and you even get expenses to cover the cost of buying books. The only expectation is managing a few UOTC cadets while you're at uni.
I was insanely jealous of my colleagues who found their way into that path. Just imagine being a full time student on £50k a year and imagine the fun you could have.
Edit. I'm a couple of years out of date. Captains start in £53k now so the salary while at Uni will be more like £55-56k.
Instead of being £50k in debt you get paid £50k a year to go to university.
Your accommodation is paid for in addition and you even get expenses to cover the cost of buying books. The only expectation is managing a few UOTC cadets while you're at uni.
I was insanely jealous of my colleagues who found their way into that path. Just imagine being a full time student on £50k a year and imagine the fun you could have.
Edit. I'm a couple of years out of date. Captains start in £53k now so the salary while at Uni will be more like £55-56k.
Edited by _Rodders_ on Wednesday 22 April 07:42
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