Reasonable adjustments - Chronic Illness - 4 day week
Discussion
Hi all, looking for thoughts/advice, and I ll try and keep this as brief as I can.
I suffer with Crohn s Disease. I ve been with my employer (a large corporate) for 12 years (first 2 as a contractor), and they have always been aware of my condition, but I have never requested (or felt that I needed) any alterations. When I have appointments, which are generally just my 8 weekly IV infusions, with a handful of occasional other checks like colonoscopy etc, the time off is paid and does not come out of my holiday. I appreciate I am lucky to have that.
For the last roughly 12 months I have started having more difficulties. I ve needed additional appointments and there have been times where I have required a day or so on sickness leave. During this time, I have also become increasingly depressed I guess you could say. This culminated into full on flare up, and I have been signed off since mid-March. I feel that this flare has largely been triggered by burnout/stress. While dealing with my IBD Team about the Crohn s I have also spoken to GP/people about the depression and how I have been feeling, my GP has suggested anti-depressants which I m currently avoiding as I want to try and change my circumstances where possible first.
I often struggle with fatigue as a symptom of the Crohns and I have felt more and more that all my energy has been spent on work, I don t have energy to do things on the weekend, I m struggling to have much of a life outside of work, and then I m back into the grind on Monday.
Before I was signed off, work was very busy. Over the last 12 months they have terminated contractors and later also allowed several team members to take voluntary redundancy meaning the team is down on resource by roughly 20% despite knowing the workload ahead. I was working on a project with about 5 others which really could have done with double that at a minimum.
I have had conversations with OH (which is an external company) and my line manager monthly since sign off. OH has already recommended a phased return, and I have expressed to my manager that I would like to explore switching to a 4 day, 35 hour week. I currently work 5 days, 40 hours.
My manager has consistently told me that they miss me and currently they are very very busy (not exactly boosting my eagerness to return). When I asked about the 4 day week, the answer was very non committal, saying he would need to ask the other managers in our team and also the senior manager, but that it was unlikely to be possible as they are very busy and under resourced. I work in a small-ish (about 40 people) team within a department of a large company.
I feel that a 4 day 35 hour week, will help me to recover better on the off days, improve my mental health as I will have energy to pursue things outside of work, and I can also move my appointments to a non work day.
Currently, there are already team members who have switched to this 4 day 35 hour contract, but to manage childcare instead of health reasons. I believe these are not temporary agreements even to the point of those people being told at the time that there is no guarantee they could return to 5 days later. Others in the past also switched to less days in the lead up to retirement. These changes happened prior to the loss of resource.
I am planning on returning to work at the end of June. I want to go back but I m also really dreading it at the same time. In my next calls I will ask again ask about a switch to 4 days but I m expecting this to get shutdown. I m worried that I m going to be in the same position flaring again 6-12 months down the line. I just want to change to something that will be more sustainable for me long term.
For context around my work. It s very niche, I can t easily go elsewhere. I m good at my job and well paid for what I do. I love the core part of my job but the situation and other stresses and frustrations surrounding it have slowly eaten away at me, and I m struggling to manage that and also stay on top of my Crohn s. If I was to leave, I would basically have to start from scratch doing something else at probably less than half the salary. I worked hard to get to where I am, so I m trying to see what I can do to make the best of the situation.
I appreciate that my health is my problem to deal with - it always will be and that sucks. I'm stuck with this for life! To some extent I actually feel quite guilty and crap about it, as said, I love the core job but I don't think I can keep on as I was before. The decision to allow a reduction in workforce to the point they are under resourced has had an impact on my health. There is not much scope for any other adjustments, I have additional responsibilities but I don't think they will even let me drop those. Can they justify refusing my request to switch to a 4 day week when other colleagues are already on the same contract that I have asked for?
I suffer with Crohn s Disease. I ve been with my employer (a large corporate) for 12 years (first 2 as a contractor), and they have always been aware of my condition, but I have never requested (or felt that I needed) any alterations. When I have appointments, which are generally just my 8 weekly IV infusions, with a handful of occasional other checks like colonoscopy etc, the time off is paid and does not come out of my holiday. I appreciate I am lucky to have that.
For the last roughly 12 months I have started having more difficulties. I ve needed additional appointments and there have been times where I have required a day or so on sickness leave. During this time, I have also become increasingly depressed I guess you could say. This culminated into full on flare up, and I have been signed off since mid-March. I feel that this flare has largely been triggered by burnout/stress. While dealing with my IBD Team about the Crohn s I have also spoken to GP/people about the depression and how I have been feeling, my GP has suggested anti-depressants which I m currently avoiding as I want to try and change my circumstances where possible first.
I often struggle with fatigue as a symptom of the Crohns and I have felt more and more that all my energy has been spent on work, I don t have energy to do things on the weekend, I m struggling to have much of a life outside of work, and then I m back into the grind on Monday.
Before I was signed off, work was very busy. Over the last 12 months they have terminated contractors and later also allowed several team members to take voluntary redundancy meaning the team is down on resource by roughly 20% despite knowing the workload ahead. I was working on a project with about 5 others which really could have done with double that at a minimum.
I have had conversations with OH (which is an external company) and my line manager monthly since sign off. OH has already recommended a phased return, and I have expressed to my manager that I would like to explore switching to a 4 day, 35 hour week. I currently work 5 days, 40 hours.
My manager has consistently told me that they miss me and currently they are very very busy (not exactly boosting my eagerness to return). When I asked about the 4 day week, the answer was very non committal, saying he would need to ask the other managers in our team and also the senior manager, but that it was unlikely to be possible as they are very busy and under resourced. I work in a small-ish (about 40 people) team within a department of a large company.
I feel that a 4 day 35 hour week, will help me to recover better on the off days, improve my mental health as I will have energy to pursue things outside of work, and I can also move my appointments to a non work day.
Currently, there are already team members who have switched to this 4 day 35 hour contract, but to manage childcare instead of health reasons. I believe these are not temporary agreements even to the point of those people being told at the time that there is no guarantee they could return to 5 days later. Others in the past also switched to less days in the lead up to retirement. These changes happened prior to the loss of resource.
I am planning on returning to work at the end of June. I want to go back but I m also really dreading it at the same time. In my next calls I will ask again ask about a switch to 4 days but I m expecting this to get shutdown. I m worried that I m going to be in the same position flaring again 6-12 months down the line. I just want to change to something that will be more sustainable for me long term.
For context around my work. It s very niche, I can t easily go elsewhere. I m good at my job and well paid for what I do. I love the core part of my job but the situation and other stresses and frustrations surrounding it have slowly eaten away at me, and I m struggling to manage that and also stay on top of my Crohn s. If I was to leave, I would basically have to start from scratch doing something else at probably less than half the salary. I worked hard to get to where I am, so I m trying to see what I can do to make the best of the situation.
I appreciate that my health is my problem to deal with - it always will be and that sucks. I'm stuck with this for life! To some extent I actually feel quite guilty and crap about it, as said, I love the core job but I don't think I can keep on as I was before. The decision to allow a reduction in workforce to the point they are under resourced has had an impact on my health. There is not much scope for any other adjustments, I have additional responsibilities but I don't think they will even let me drop those. Can they justify refusing my request to switch to a 4 day week when other colleagues are already on the same contract that I have asked for?
Edited by WelshPetrolhead on Sunday 31st May 00:29
loskie said:
Could they not have offered you VR? Or would that not be good for you?
People were invited to express if they were interested, but the decision to allow individuals was with the senior manager, I know of a couple who applied but were refused.I didn't apply. The figures didn't work for me. I'm mid thirties, putting together a house deposit, and I honestly don't know what I would go and do if I left.
If you were in my team and assuming we mutually agreed we could really make it work, I’d have no issue with your 4 days request but not all businesses support such things, and neither do all leaders in businesses that do.
But one other piece of advice I’d give you. You say you wouldn’t know what to go and do if you left. Be under no illusion - if the business you work for decide one day for whatever reason that they don’t have a role for you, such as a downturn in business or whatever else, they will have no hesitation in binning you. So I would make it a priority to figure out what you’d do in that position.
But one other piece of advice I’d give you. You say you wouldn’t know what to go and do if you left. Be under no illusion - if the business you work for decide one day for whatever reason that they don’t have a role for you, such as a downturn in business or whatever else, they will have no hesitation in binning you. So I would make it a priority to figure out what you’d do in that position.
As a manager it s difficult, you would be part of a limited resource pool and work gets loaded to others to support.
As already put forward it s probably a case of submitting a formal request, perhaps also a meeting with HR.
Might be worth seeing an employment lawyer, or consult with somebody at one of the charity disability orgs for guidance on what s reasonable, you are potentially very well protected at work under disability legalisation if you do everything properly.
If you ve been recommended anti depressants and are depressed, then it might be worth taking them on a trial basis.
As already put forward it s probably a case of submitting a formal request, perhaps also a meeting with HR.
Might be worth seeing an employment lawyer, or consult with somebody at one of the charity disability orgs for guidance on what s reasonable, you are potentially very well protected at work under disability legalisation if you do everything properly.
If you ve been recommended anti depressants and are depressed, then it might be worth taking them on a trial basis.
You say you work for a large company, so they should know the full well you're covered by the equality act and the consequences of discrimination.
Large companies get hammered harder at employment tribunals because 'they should know better'.
Go for your adjustment request and if they refuse, take the matter further (and start looking for another job with the knowledge that a large payout would be incoming at some point).
Large companies get hammered harder at employment tribunals because 'they should know better'.
Go for your adjustment request and if they refuse, take the matter further (and start looking for another job with the knowledge that a large payout would be incoming at some point).
miniman said:
bennno said:
If you ve been recommended anti depressants and are depressed, then it might be worth taking them on a trial basis.
Agreed. If you d been diagnosed with cancer, you d take the medicine without hesitation. Don t be afraid to do the same for your mental health. bigandclever said:
miniman said:
bennno said:
If you ve been recommended anti depressants and are depressed, then it might be worth taking them on a trial basis.
Agreed. If you d been diagnosed with cancer, you d take the medicine without hesitation. Don t be afraid to do the same for your mental health. I'd be wary of a four day week too - I've not done it myself but colleagues who have seem to end up doing five days work in the four
Really appreciate the replies, thank you.
Obviously being off I have given it some thought. Thinking about transferable skills and rewriting my CV/Portfolio. What I'm currently doing is/was my dream job so it's difficult finding other things that capture me, but I'd be willing to try most things if I was given the opportunity to learn and then to progress over time. The other thing is that if I start again I would probably have to take a huge drop in salary so I would then struggle to save/buy a house. If that situation was forced then obviously I play the hand I'm dealt, but leaving at the moment would be my own decision. There is also the over riding sense that, I worked so hard to get to this point, if I call it a day then I've let myself down. Maybe a bit of sunk cost fallacy creeping in there.
Everything is up for discussion. I'm thinking of selling my second car, moving/going back to my parents temporarily. Everything.
Add on top of that the occasional sit down conversation asking me what new things I want to achieve, and how I want to develop - when I don't want to go any further (I'm a senior. There also is nowhere, the next step up is my manager), and there is next to no benefit for me because it just means more work and less health. Salary is negotiated by the union.
I've been doing that while having to fight my own body. It's partially how I've ended up where I am.
miniman said:
If you were in my team and assuming we mutually agreed we could really make it work, I d have no issue with your 4 days request but not all businesses support such things, and neither do all leaders in businesses that do.
Certainly wasn't a problem before they decided to let people go, and they haven't asked to reverse the contracts for the people who have been allowed. miniman said:
But one other piece of advice I d give you. You say you wouldn t know what to go and do if you left. Be under no illusion - if the business you work for decide one day for whatever reason that they don t have a role for you, such as a downturn in business or whatever else, they will have no hesitation in binning you. So I would make it a priority to figure out what you d do in that position.
Honestly, it's not lost on me at all. Prior to this job about 15 years ago I started my career in the same industry doing something similar. I walked straight out of Uni into an industry job and a year later I was made redundant. It took me 9 months of applications to get another job (I even resorted to dulling down my CV and removing my degree in my desperation). I got a job driving a van delivering car parts for not much more than minimum wage, and then 6 months later I got this job solely by a friend of a friend putting a word in - there wasn't even a vacancy.Obviously being off I have given it some thought. Thinking about transferable skills and rewriting my CV/Portfolio. What I'm currently doing is/was my dream job so it's difficult finding other things that capture me, but I'd be willing to try most things if I was given the opportunity to learn and then to progress over time. The other thing is that if I start again I would probably have to take a huge drop in salary so I would then struggle to save/buy a house. If that situation was forced then obviously I play the hand I'm dealt, but leaving at the moment would be my own decision. There is also the over riding sense that, I worked so hard to get to this point, if I call it a day then I've let myself down. Maybe a bit of sunk cost fallacy creeping in there.
Everything is up for discussion. I'm thinking of selling my second car, moving/going back to my parents temporarily. Everything.
bennno said:
As a manager it s difficult, you would be part of a limited resource pool and work gets loaded to others to support.
I appreciate that but also due to decisions at a higher level I was being overloaded with work, and if I'm being brutally honest in some cases making up for a shortfall from others. I did raise my concerns but while it was accepted the response was kind of "it is what it is". Add on top of that the occasional sit down conversation asking me what new things I want to achieve, and how I want to develop - when I don't want to go any further (I'm a senior. There also is nowhere, the next step up is my manager), and there is next to no benefit for me because it just means more work and less health. Salary is negotiated by the union.
I've been doing that while having to fight my own body. It's partially how I've ended up where I am.
xx99xx said:
You say you work for a large company
Yes. It's a large company. Thousands of staff.you all said:
Anti-depressants
I'll get on to the GP and sort it next week. My mindset was to try and rectify the causes rather than the symptoms. I wasn't keen on the idea of potentially having to rely on drugs to get me through the week. I'm just a bit gutted that it's come to this point in all honesty. I feel very stuck.Edited by WelshPetrolhead on Saturday 30th May 22:27
WelshPetrolhead said:
I'll get on to the GP and sort it next week. My mindset was to try and rectify the causes rather than the symptoms. I wasn't keen on the idea of potentially having to rely on drugs to get me through the week. I'm just a bit gutted that it's come to this point in all honesty. I feel very stuck.
I understand the mindset.But thats like running a 5k to deal with a sprained ankle.
Follow your docs advice. It'll put you in a better position to deal with the causes.
M.
Edited by Mortarboard on Sunday 31st May 01:12
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff