Should I step up where the role is being interviewed for
Discussion
Experiences & advice appreciated
Struggling to keep this brief but also not give too much away
Large-ish organisation with a sales focus.
I work in a facilitator capacity. So you have revenue generators / sales then you have me doing some facilitation.
Often you will have one or two sales “coordinators” or marketing. Think sales-lite. They are part of “the business”.
I have been doing the facilitation for a long time and for a while, including now, offer basically 60/70% of that coordinating role on top of my own role. Always hoping to formally transition into the coordinating role.
New firm. Young firm just getting going. No coordinating role so once again I have been offering above and beyond my own role. They are now hiring for that role. I had already made it known if that opportunity came along then I would be interested.
Hiring managers are into round 2 of interviews and shortlisting external candidates. Have politely said not me for now / there will be in near future an opportunity to support the successful candidate. Which I have heard before to be honest.
Challenge is the top top boss, separately, encouraged me to come up with a business / sales plan by way of proving myself for the opportunity. That same top manager would have signed off the headcount and will be being kept informed of interview progress.
Hence - unsure - do I still put my ideas to paper in the hope it may happen or do I hold off on the assumption I am not in the running?
Reason for holding off is I have heard it before / had the carrot dangled before. Several times in fact. If I out my ideas out there and they are successful then there is a risk the incoming hire will scoop up the momentum and take the credit.
Struggling to keep this brief but also not give too much away
Large-ish organisation with a sales focus.
I work in a facilitator capacity. So you have revenue generators / sales then you have me doing some facilitation.
Often you will have one or two sales “coordinators” or marketing. Think sales-lite. They are part of “the business”.
I have been doing the facilitation for a long time and for a while, including now, offer basically 60/70% of that coordinating role on top of my own role. Always hoping to formally transition into the coordinating role.
New firm. Young firm just getting going. No coordinating role so once again I have been offering above and beyond my own role. They are now hiring for that role. I had already made it known if that opportunity came along then I would be interested.
Hiring managers are into round 2 of interviews and shortlisting external candidates. Have politely said not me for now / there will be in near future an opportunity to support the successful candidate. Which I have heard before to be honest.
Challenge is the top top boss, separately, encouraged me to come up with a business / sales plan by way of proving myself for the opportunity. That same top manager would have signed off the headcount and will be being kept informed of interview progress.
Hence - unsure - do I still put my ideas to paper in the hope it may happen or do I hold off on the assumption I am not in the running?
Reason for holding off is I have heard it before / had the carrot dangled before. Several times in fact. If I out my ideas out there and they are successful then there is a risk the incoming hire will scoop up the momentum and take the credit.
Thanks thats what I am suspecting
But I remain unsure why top boss would take that approach - he is too senior and too busy to care about getting me to come up with a game plan - particularly if he is hiring someone that should be doing that
The challenge is if I revert to my core role I lose visibility
But I remain unsure why top boss would take that approach - he is too senior and too busy to care about getting me to come up with a game plan - particularly if he is hiring someone that should be doing that
The challenge is if I revert to my core role I lose visibility
Many years ago I wanted a promotion, I had essentially being doing the job for months so I arranged a meeting with the CEO, presented him with a JD of the role and asked him if he thought that was a suitable JD for the role I wanted, he agreed. I said great, have you got any issues, concerns or complaints about the job I have been doing for the last six months, he said no. I said great again, here is the evidence I've been doing that JD for the last six months and here is the market rate for that JD, no need to back date it we can start it from next month. He blustered a bit and I said I also have an envelope with my resignation in, which would you prefer.
I got the promotion - would have been royally screwed if I didn't though...
I got the promotion - would have been royally screwed if I didn't though...
OP just ask him for a frank and honest conversation. Outcomes are:
1) You get the new role.
2) You find out you're trapped in you're current role...over delivering.
Either is positive as it either gets you the job you want or forces you to decide whether you're happy getting underpaid for what you do.
Last org I worked in did round of promotions which was an utter s
t show. It saw a lot of staff either leave - like me - or simply hand back any extra duties that were being done. ...not prepared to pay, take it back was the attitude which is fair enough.
1) You get the new role.
2) You find out you're trapped in you're current role...over delivering.
Either is positive as it either gets you the job you want or forces you to decide whether you're happy getting underpaid for what you do.
Last org I worked in did round of promotions which was an utter s
t show. It saw a lot of staff either leave - like me - or simply hand back any extra duties that were being done. ...not prepared to pay, take it back was the attitude which is fair enough.I'm going to be blunt because I'm a grumpy old man and I'm sensing you're relatively young and are building your career.
You are not going anywhere at your organisation because they have you at a salary and grade where you are over delivering and they don't want to pay you more or potentially have to replace you with someone who might not be as good.
The only way you are going to progress is to leave.
It's great that you are doing all these extra tasks above your pay grade because you can put them on your CV and go for the next career step.
You owe them nothing because they are doing nothing for you.
You are not going anywhere at your organisation because they have you at a salary and grade where you are over delivering and they don't want to pay you more or potentially have to replace you with someone who might not be as good.
The only way you are going to progress is to leave.
It's great that you are doing all these extra tasks above your pay grade because you can put them on your CV and go for the next career step.
You owe them nothing because they are doing nothing for you.
menousername said:
Thanks all
Dont think the resignation idea will work but kudos to you that was a good move
My main concern is the conundrum- if I keep doing what I am doing I have visibility- if I start doing less I either become invisible or it looks like I am being off
But visible for what purpose? Something I have observed in my career is that if you're seen as a high flyer, you know about it. You'll be told. If you keep waiting, hoping, it's usually not you. That doesn't mean you can't be elsewhere BTW.Dont think the resignation idea will work but kudos to you that was a good move
My main concern is the conundrum- if I keep doing what I am doing I have visibility- if I start doing less I either become invisible or it looks like I am being off
CoupeKid said:
You are not going anywhere at your organisation because they have you at a salary and grade where you are over delivering and they don't want to pay you more or potentially have to replace you with someone who might not be as good.
This is it.Assuming you are over-delivering where you are and they are delighted with you in that role, why would they take the double risk of,
a) Moving you to a new role where you might not deliver.
b) Also have to hire a backfill who definitely won't perform as well in the short-to-medium term, and likely cost them more than you do.
Keeping you where you are and hiring externally is the lowest risk and cheapest approach for them.
"Jam tomorrow" is the thing used to keep naive people sat where they are for a bit longer.
CoupeKid said:
The only way you are going to progress is to leave.
Yup. Be someone else's low-risk plan.Ultimatums sometimes work, usually don't. Build your CV, Linkedin etc while maybe taking your foot off the gas 10% to make the time to do it. Apply for and interview while also having the security of your current job, which also gives you a VERY different interview mindset than needing a job.
When you find the right thing, which should also include a significant bump in salary to cover your risk, move.
Loyalty does not pay in the modern world.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
menousername said:
Thanks all
Dont think the resignation idea will work but kudos to you that was a good move
My main concern is the conundrum- if I keep doing what I am doing I have visibility- if I start doing less I either become invisible or it looks like I am being off
But visible for what purpose? Something I have observed in my career is that if you're seen as a high flyer, you know about it. You'll be told. If you keep waiting, hoping, it's usually not you. That doesn't mean you can't be elsewhere BTW.Dont think the resignation idea will work but kudos to you that was a good move
My main concern is the conundrum- if I keep doing what I am doing I have visibility- if I start doing less I either become invisible or it looks like I am being off
CoupeKid said:
I'm going to be blunt because I'm a grumpy old man and I'm sensing you're relatively young and are building your career.
You are not going anywhere at your organisation because they have you at a salary and grade where you are over delivering and they don't want to pay you more or potentially have to replace you with someone who might not be as good.
The only way you are going to progress is to leave.
It's great that you are doing all these extra tasks above your pay grade because you can put them on your CV and go for the next career step.
You owe them nothing because they are doing nothing for you.
OP, I don't know you, your job, your place of work but I tend to agree with CoupeKid.You are not going anywhere at your organisation because they have you at a salary and grade where you are over delivering and they don't want to pay you more or potentially have to replace you with someone who might not be as good.
The only way you are going to progress is to leave.
It's great that you are doing all these extra tasks above your pay grade because you can put them on your CV and go for the next career step.
You owe them nothing because they are doing nothing for you.
The useless ones get promoted those who are good at a job get to stay where they are.
Unlike times gone by, folk no longer stay at a place of work for their entire working life but instead move around from place to place, sometimes even ending up back where they started but in a much senior role.
Thank you all.
Cannot reply to each of you but I think fair to say the collective vibe is that the opportunity is not really there for me and “jam tomorrow” sounds about right
I cannot really apply for the vacancy. Its not out there to apply for.
The only real interaction I have is the big big boss asking me to produce a game plan for the business. As mentioned I am not sure if that is also “jam tomorrow” but he is far too senior to care about that kind of approach to little ole me.
I think the main uncertainty was trying to figure out why he is still willing to sit down with me and discuss that.
Cannot reply to each of you but I think fair to say the collective vibe is that the opportunity is not really there for me and “jam tomorrow” sounds about right
I cannot really apply for the vacancy. Its not out there to apply for.
The only real interaction I have is the big big boss asking me to produce a game plan for the business. As mentioned I am not sure if that is also “jam tomorrow” but he is far too senior to care about that kind of approach to little ole me.
I think the main uncertainty was trying to figure out why he is still willing to sit down with me and discuss that.
menousername said:
Thank you all.
Cannot reply to each of you but I think fair to say the collective vibe is that the opportunity is not really there for me and jam tomorrow sounds about right
I cannot really apply for the vacancy. Its not out there to apply for.
The only real interaction I have is the big big boss asking me to produce a game plan for the business. As mentioned I am not sure if that is also jam tomorrow but he is far too senior to care about that kind of approach to little ole me.
I think the main uncertainty was trying to figure out why he is still willing to sit down with me and discuss that.
It cannot hurt to have that discussion alongside prepping to find another job/leave they may just surprise you.Cannot reply to each of you but I think fair to say the collective vibe is that the opportunity is not really there for me and jam tomorrow sounds about right
I cannot really apply for the vacancy. Its not out there to apply for.
The only real interaction I have is the big big boss asking me to produce a game plan for the business. As mentioned I am not sure if that is also jam tomorrow but he is far too senior to care about that kind of approach to little ole me.
I think the main uncertainty was trying to figure out why he is still willing to sit down with me and discuss that.
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