Those in senior positions - deal with stress/workload?
Discussion
A very close friend who is in a senior position with several vital functions reporting in is operating at peak capacity both personally and professionally.
Whilst he trusts my advice I’m conscious I’m a pound shop Simon Sinek middle management and that I haven’t yet lived at the level he operates at.
It’s not a lack of delegation or team members with the right abilities but it is somewhat the ‘operating model’ the business uses and the nature of the functions reporting in.
Keen to hear of any gems that I may be able to steer him towards as operating in the red is only viable for so long.
Whilst he trusts my advice I’m conscious I’m a pound shop Simon Sinek middle management and that I haven’t yet lived at the level he operates at.
It’s not a lack of delegation or team members with the right abilities but it is somewhat the ‘operating model’ the business uses and the nature of the functions reporting in.
Keen to hear of any gems that I may be able to steer him towards as operating in the red is only viable for so long.
There are no easy answers. Everyone has to decide on their own work/life balance. It's often the "social" pressures which can be a problem, especially if there's a demanding "other half" in the picture.
Yes, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. But no, it's not easy.
My own answer to the question was to quit at age 48 and follow a different path.
Yes, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. But no, it's not easy.
My own answer to the question was to quit at age 48 and follow a different path.
Panamax said:
There are no easy answers. Everyone has to decide on their own work/life balance. It's often the "social" pressures which can be a problem, especially if there's a demanding "other half" in the picture.
Yes, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. But no, it's not easy.
My own answer to the question was to quit at age 48 and follow a different path.
Agree with what you say but in this instance the work/life balance is broadly protected with the bulk of the stress contained within the work zone. Yes, if it was easy everybody would be doing it. But no, it's not easy.
My own answer to the question was to quit at age 48 and follow a different path.
It’s a common issue unfortunately.
No easy answer here without conducting a full diagnostic review.
You’ve mentioned two issues that would usually need looking at early doors, that any external review would describe as the art of effective delegation (many folk think they have this cracked when in fact they don’t really) and hiring folk better than themselves (to ensure there is indeed a top team in place to support them).
Whilst you have covered them off, experience suggests that there’s always room for improvement in both despite any reassurances.
The most useful advice you can give is to help him shift from his ‘capacity management’ problem view to thinking about ‘operating model redesign,’ if it’s within his gift.
If not, then an executive mentor and/or coach may help as would having a discussion with his line manager, who, if they are any good, should be spotting that he’s having some challenges and intervene before it affects his health and confidence.
Some say too that we all at some point reach our level of incompetence, the ‘Peter Principle’, where the idea is that people are promoted based on success in their current role until they reach a job whose required skills they don’t have, at which point they stop rising. It’s often used to explain why organisations end up with leaders who are overwhelmed or misaligned with the demands of their role. It could be the case here.
Not sure if that little is helpful, but you’re a good mate looking out for him.
No easy answer here without conducting a full diagnostic review.
You’ve mentioned two issues that would usually need looking at early doors, that any external review would describe as the art of effective delegation (many folk think they have this cracked when in fact they don’t really) and hiring folk better than themselves (to ensure there is indeed a top team in place to support them).
Whilst you have covered them off, experience suggests that there’s always room for improvement in both despite any reassurances.
The most useful advice you can give is to help him shift from his ‘capacity management’ problem view to thinking about ‘operating model redesign,’ if it’s within his gift.
If not, then an executive mentor and/or coach may help as would having a discussion with his line manager, who, if they are any good, should be spotting that he’s having some challenges and intervene before it affects his health and confidence.
Some say too that we all at some point reach our level of incompetence, the ‘Peter Principle’, where the idea is that people are promoted based on success in their current role until they reach a job whose required skills they don’t have, at which point they stop rising. It’s often used to explain why organisations end up with leaders who are overwhelmed or misaligned with the demands of their role. It could be the case here.
Not sure if that little is helpful, but you’re a good mate looking out for him.
Work out how many hours he works in a week and work out his real hourly wage to see if it s worth it really
All these senior jobs pay you a good salary but then you end up working 60/70/80 hours, replying to emails late at night etc and your life is soon consumed
The best advice is to learn to say NO!
I have one senior manager friend who does a 2 hour commute everyday, gets to the office for 8, stays till 6 then drives home, and recently was told by her American overlords she basically needed to work on holiday or else
That’s no life.
All these senior jobs pay you a good salary but then you end up working 60/70/80 hours, replying to emails late at night etc and your life is soon consumed
The best advice is to learn to say NO!
I have one senior manager friend who does a 2 hour commute everyday, gets to the office for 8, stays till 6 then drives home, and recently was told by her American overlords she basically needed to work on holiday or else
That’s no life.
rog007 said:
It s a common issue unfortunately.
No easy answer here without conducting a full diagnostic review.
You ve mentioned two issues that would usually need looking at early doors, that any external review would describe as the art of effective delegation (many folk think they have this cracked when in fact they don t really) and hiring folk better than themselves (to ensure there is indeed a top team in place to support them).
Whilst you have covered them off, experience suggests that there s always room for improvement in both despite any reassurances.
The most useful advice you can give is to help him shift from his capacity management problem view to thinking about operating model redesign, if it s within his gift.
If not, then an executive mentor and/or coach may help as would having a discussion with his line manager, who, if they are any good, should be spotting that he s having some challenges and intervene before it affects his health and confidence.
Some say too that we all at some point reach our level of incompetence, the Peter Principle , where the idea is that people are promoted based on success in their current role until they reach a job whose required skills they don t have, at which point they stop rising. It s often used to explain why organisations end up with leaders who are overwhelmed or misaligned with the demands of their role. It could be the case here.
Not sure if that little is helpful, but you re a good mate looking out for him.
Great post. No easy answer here without conducting a full diagnostic review.
You ve mentioned two issues that would usually need looking at early doors, that any external review would describe as the art of effective delegation (many folk think they have this cracked when in fact they don t really) and hiring folk better than themselves (to ensure there is indeed a top team in place to support them).
Whilst you have covered them off, experience suggests that there s always room for improvement in both despite any reassurances.
The most useful advice you can give is to help him shift from his capacity management problem view to thinking about operating model redesign, if it s within his gift.
If not, then an executive mentor and/or coach may help as would having a discussion with his line manager, who, if they are any good, should be spotting that he s having some challenges and intervene before it affects his health and confidence.
Some say too that we all at some point reach our level of incompetence, the Peter Principle , where the idea is that people are promoted based on success in their current role until they reach a job whose required skills they don t have, at which point they stop rising. It s often used to explain why organisations end up with leaders who are overwhelmed or misaligned with the demands of their role. It could be the case here.
Not sure if that little is helpful, but you re a good mate looking out for him.
The ‘operating model’ is one I’m minded to suggest but conscious that at their level, the OM for the individual is often linked to the OM of the business.
An issue is there is simply too much flowing into them at the moment.
My friend knows what good looks like (and has enabled it elsewhere within the business) but conditions within the business for various reasons means it’s hard to follow their own advice.
rog007 said:
The most useful advice you can give is to help him shift from his capacity management problem view to thinking about operating model redesign, if it's within his gift.
Those sound splendidly clever words, although I have absolutely no idea what they mean.Spock, translation please.
Panamax said:
rog007 said:
The most useful advice you can give is to help him shift from his capacity management problem view to thinking about operating model redesign, if it's within his gift.
Those sound splendidly clever words, although I have absolutely no idea what they mean.Spock, translation please.
I’m in a senior role for a US firm. I have had them expect me to dial in to conf calls whilst in ICU….
Quattr04. said:
Work out how many hours he works in a week and work out his real hourly wage to see if it s worth it really
All these senior jobs pay you a good salary but then you end up working 60/70/80 hours, replying to emails late at night etc and your life is soon consumed
The best advice is to learn to say NO!
I have one senior manager friend who does a 2 hour commute everyday, gets to the office for 8, stays till 6 then drives home, and recently was told by her American overlords she basically needed to work on holiday or else
That s no life.
I'd be out of there faster than sAll these senior jobs pay you a good salary but then you end up working 60/70/80 hours, replying to emails late at night etc and your life is soon consumed
The best advice is to learn to say NO!
I have one senior manager friend who does a 2 hour commute everyday, gets to the office for 8, stays till 6 then drives home, and recently was told by her American overlords she basically needed to work on holiday or else
That s no life.
t out of a goose, unless short-term and/or very lucrative.I get the enjoy it argument, a compensatory argument and also the cannot switch off argument, but sometimes people need a slap in n the chops.
I haven't yet managed to meet anyone who can buy time.
TheFungle said:
Keen to hear of any gems that I may be able to steer him towards as operating in the red is only viable for so long.
I stepped into a seniors position 4 years ago, more recently (last year) I report directly to the CEO for an organisation that turns over well over a billion.What I've learnt is leadership/management is a learnt skill set just like any other, except most people don't get any training in it and as someone has already mentioned just get promoted based on totally different skill sets.
If your mate hadn't already done so, get him to ask for some leadership development courses, or external coaching/action learning sets. These things sound 'Soft' but I find them invaluable, they all have a cost, but if he is that senior in the organisation the costs will be covered with no questions asked.
There is also a whole load of books I've found really good, all are on Audible/Spotify, the best ones I've found in no particular order:
- Dare to Lead
- Radical Candour
- Leaders eat last
- Know your why
- Surrounded by idiots
Finally one of my favourite quotes from one of the books is:
"The opposite of play isn't work, it's depression"
My wife thinks it's mad as a grown man with a family and highly stressed job I play video games, but honestly it's one of things I really find useful as a balancing technique...well that's the excuse anyways for wasting over 30 minutes a day everyday on Project Motor Racing since it's launch day
.
The other thing I ensure I find time to do is exercise, I do a mixture of cardio and strength at least 3-4 times a week, it's a fantastic way to clear your head.
Finally make sure he knows his 'Why', as others have described already the financial compensation associated with senior roles is rarely worth it if you calculate the hours required/pay.
Why does he want a senior role? What does it mean to him?
He needs to be brutally honest with those answers, and it may not be something he wants to share, but answers will underpin his own approach to the role and consciously or unconsciouslly will be evident to others.
DukeDickson said:
There's then another aspect, personal circumstances. If you're married, probably with children, but never there, it would take a fair degree of faith for that never to wobble.
Surely though that is one of the few influences you can have as a senior leader? I have made the conscious choice to ensure I don't attend any work meetings outside core hours unless I'm oncall, I publise this and I've had challenging conversations with colleagues on this.
But it is one of my core values, if others wish to have meetings that eat into family time, that's up to them, just don't expect me to engage or attend. Given I still have a job, my conclusion is regular none core hour/none Oncall meetings simply do not increase organisational productivity.
However I ensure I separate that message from my availability if needed. People do still call me for genuinely urgent operational decisions/advice 24/7, my personal mobile is on all my work emails and in the 365 contacts page, but the frequency of genuinely urgent calls is about one 10 minute phone call every month or so.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 2nd August 06:40
TheFungle said:
My friend knows what good looks like (and has enabled it elsewhere within the business) but conditions within the business for various reasons means it s hard to follow their own advice.
Managing up is as important as managing down.I've never believed in saying Yes to everything the boss/line manager says is a good way to do my job. If my boss/line manager is doing something in a way I think that needs changing I will bring it up.
Personal development is absolutely key however, saying the right thing in the wrong way is unbelievably hard to change course on.
Leadership/Management isn't about productivity or strategy or even finances it's People, people, people.......and people.
OP. As many have said you re a very good friend taking an interest in your friends wellbeing.
I was in a similar position back in 2012 and gave up my Directorship of a large international specialist construction company. I took a lot of grief from certain family members for doing this with 2 children at primary school age and mortgages on 2 properties. I started my own concern and whilst not as lucrative or entirely straightforward, overall it was the best decision I ever made.
Tell your friend to start making alternative plans outside of this employment. Just making the decision to leave and start alternative planning (in my case it was 12 months before that included my 6 month notice period) massively reduced my stress levels.
You only get one life and I ve seen what acute stress can do to people, taking on too much commitment to please others. The biggest pitfalls I ve seen with people is sending children to private school (when there not in the £200k plus per year income bracket) massive mortgages and heavily financed luxury cars.
I was in a similar position back in 2012 and gave up my Directorship of a large international specialist construction company. I took a lot of grief from certain family members for doing this with 2 children at primary school age and mortgages on 2 properties. I started my own concern and whilst not as lucrative or entirely straightforward, overall it was the best decision I ever made.
Tell your friend to start making alternative plans outside of this employment. Just making the decision to leave and start alternative planning (in my case it was 12 months before that included my 6 month notice period) massively reduced my stress levels.
You only get one life and I ve seen what acute stress can do to people, taking on too much commitment to please others. The biggest pitfalls I ve seen with people is sending children to private school (when there not in the £200k plus per year income bracket) massive mortgages and heavily financed luxury cars.
Quattr04. said:
Work out how many hours he works in a week and work out his real hourly wage to see if it s worth it really
All these senior jobs pay you a good salary but then you end up working 60/70/80 hours, replying to emails late at night etc and your life is soon consumed
The best advice is to learn to say NO!
I have one senior manager friend who does a 2 hour commute everyday, gets to the office for 8, stays till 6 then drives home, and recently was told by her American overlords she basically needed to work on holiday or else
That s no life.
Purely out of interest, what are these senior roles typically paying?All these senior jobs pay you a good salary but then you end up working 60/70/80 hours, replying to emails late at night etc and your life is soon consumed
The best advice is to learn to say NO!
I have one senior manager friend who does a 2 hour commute everyday, gets to the office for 8, stays till 6 then drives home, and recently was told by her American overlords she basically needed to work on holiday or else
That s no life.
Are they really worth the stress and hassle when so much disappears in tax? I’ve seen a couple of people - good people - take senior roles and it’s totally changed them both physically (they look f
ked) and personally (they’re now wkers). Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff