NHS employment law help required......
Discussion
James,
I can't help you on the legal side but please tell your partner not to worry.
Couple of years ago my father, then in his late 70's, was in a general ward and left his card in the pay TV. He was moved to another ward and forgot his card. A day later a nurse took it back to him.
His story was a little different!
He thought he had taken it out of the TV and so I rang his bank and cancelled the card. The bank, HSBC, were very good about it, even though I wasn't the card holder but, luckly I did remember my Dads date of birth.
My Dad then moaned at me because his card wouldn't work and he couldn't watch the football!
Having worked with old people I know they can be a bit difficult but I wouldn't worry top much. I would guess that the sister is 'just doing her job'.
Hope it all works out OK.
OT
Why do people call their wifes/girl friends "my partner"?
I can't help you on the legal side but please tell your partner not to worry.
Couple of years ago my father, then in his late 70's, was in a general ward and left his card in the pay TV. He was moved to another ward and forgot his card. A day later a nurse took it back to him.
His story was a little different!
He thought he had taken it out of the TV and so I rang his bank and cancelled the card. The bank, HSBC, were very good about it, even though I wasn't the card holder but, luckly I did remember my Dads date of birth.
My Dad then moaned at me because his card wouldn't work and he couldn't watch the football!
Having worked with old people I know they can be a bit difficult but I wouldn't worry top much. I would guess that the sister is 'just doing her job'.
Hope it all works out OK.
OT
Why do people call their wifes/girl friends "my partner"?
As has been said, the allegation has to be taken seriously and investigated.
Out of interest, what's their policy on patient funds on the ward? Fair enough leaving a bit of pocket money so they can buy tea and snacks etc, although that said stroke patients tend not to be too mobile.
Shouldn't the cash have been locked away anyway?
I'm not suggesting slinging mud about unnecessarily, but there's a reason most places have policies on security of patient funds. If someone else hasn't done their job and now your partner is suffering, then that's something that should be getting sorted.
Her trust has probably missed a useful member of staff who I would assume is costing them money on paid suspension whilst they pay someone else to do her job.
If it's something that should never have happened, then that's hard to justify in these belt tightening times.
Out of interest, what's their policy on patient funds on the ward? Fair enough leaving a bit of pocket money so they can buy tea and snacks etc, although that said stroke patients tend not to be too mobile.
Shouldn't the cash have been locked away anyway?
I'm not suggesting slinging mud about unnecessarily, but there's a reason most places have policies on security of patient funds. If someone else hasn't done their job and now your partner is suffering, then that's something that should be getting sorted.
Her trust has probably missed a useful member of staff who I would assume is costing them money on paid suspension whilst they pay someone else to do her job.
If it's something that should never have happened, then that's hard to justify in these belt tightening times.
BigAlinEmbra said:
As has been said, the allegation has to be taken seriously and investigated.
This. I take it this is the first time anything like this has happened. Just get her to relax (as best she can), speak to the union rep and any experienced staff who she counts as friends. Assuming she is innocent it will come to nothing. Afraid the police have to be involved whenever there is a theft reported too.
Is there actually any evidence that this 6 pounds existed in the first place?
Sympathies to your missus, I've had to deal with complaints from patients that haven't appeared to be 100% mentally sound, but it doesn't change the fact you're forced to deal with them as you would any other.
I was just fortunate that it wasn't about me directly.
Is there actually any evidence that this 6 pounds existed in the first place?
Sympathies to your missus, I've had to deal with complaints from patients that haven't appeared to be 100% mentally sound, but it doesn't change the fact you're forced to deal with them as you would any other.
I was just fortunate that it wasn't about me directly.
dont forget the nhs is a huge monolithic entity where patient care is long down the list after polical correctness, red tape, managers managing managers managing things like dinner times and other such trivia. the amount of idiotic rules and bureaucracy is ridiculous.
ive sat through those discipliniaries, they are NOT nice. i feel sorry for your partner. deffo get a union rep to sit with her.
ive sat through those discipliniaries, they are NOT nice. i feel sorry for your partner. deffo get a union rep to sit with her.
Edited by Tykey on Tuesday 29th September 20:54
This can't be an isolated case, I'm sure it happens regularly. Some of those cranky old patients aren't worth the bother. Some of them are serial complainants. My mussus had a complaint made about causing brusing to an auld doll's leg. Turns out she had only spoken to her and hadn't even made physical contact. What a waste of time. I know we all curse political correctness gone mad and health and safety fears overriding everything else but with old b
hes like that is it any wonder that people and organisations have to cover their backs?
hes like that is it any wonder that people and organisations have to cover their backs?Suspension on pay is a holding procedure and probably right. As the alleged theft is of money unless there is a witness it is highly unlikely that the Trust will be able to pass the critical test in cases of this nature I.E Reasonable belief after a thorough investigation. They won't be able to find a smoking gun and any evidence at all would be, at best, circumstantial unless someone saw your SO loading her purse with the £6.00 involved ( which would suggest a criminal lack of ambition!!)
Involving the police is in my view, very heavy handed at this stage and I'm amazed they didn't tell the NHS Trust that they had rapists and muggers to catch rather than investigate the theft of less than a tenner --- But the fact they found nothing strengthens your SO's case by showing she's not a cleptomaniac.
When she is inevitably reinstated I think there are grounds for a stonking grievance case...
Involving the police is in my view, very heavy handed at this stage and I'm amazed they didn't tell the NHS Trust that they had rapists and muggers to catch rather than investigate the theft of less than a tenner --- But the fact they found nothing strengthens your SO's case by showing she's not a cleptomaniac.
When she is inevitably reinstated I think there are grounds for a stonking grievance case...
jamesc_1729 said:
Today whilst I was at work, two policeman came to my house and arrested my partner on suspicion of theft. They searched my house for hospital effects. She spent the day in the cells and was interviewed and bailed based on the senile woman's statement. Not terribly nice really.
I'm concerned that although the evidence consists of a senile person's word against my partner, they will sack her without any further evidence.
The police wouldn't get involved in searching for £6 as to prove theft, the other person has to prove that they owned the item(s) in the first place e.g. by a serial number, identifying mark etc, therefore, has she been accused of stealing other items? In your words, 'hospital effects'? If she hasn't been informed that she has allegedly stole other items and she can prove it was the hospital that sent round the BiB, she seek proper legal advice. I'm concerned that although the evidence consists of a senile person's word against my partner, they will sack her without any further evidence.
To do with dismissal, as it is just 1 person's word against hers, it could be constituted as merely hearsay, however the hospital have an obligation to investigate. The level of disciplinary action against her would depend on length of service, disciplinary record, whether anybody else had been involved in a similar offence and what the outcome was then etc.
Also, has the disciplinary meeting been held? With regards your earlier question about the right to be accompanied, under the statutory right in s.10 of the Employment Relations Act 1999, the companion is limited to a trade union official or a work colleague (unless, of course, the organisation’s policy specifically allows other categories of companion)
Scirocco 265 is quite correct. As long as she has one years service or more there is a lot of protection.
BiB may have been sent by the hospital, the person or their relatives but I too am gobsmacked that they turned up ( presumably with a warrant)to conduct a search in these circumstances so I suspect that other allegations have been made. Did they find/take anything away from the search?
There are two issues here, a criminal issue and an employment issue, both with different burdens of proof. I'd try and find out what allegations have been made to the BiB and if there is no satisfactory answer I think it's time to get a lawyer on the case.
BiB may have been sent by the hospital, the person or their relatives but I too am gobsmacked that they turned up ( presumably with a warrant)to conduct a search in these circumstances so I suspect that other allegations have been made. Did they find/take anything away from the search?
There are two issues here, a criminal issue and an employment issue, both with different burdens of proof. I'd try and find out what allegations have been made to the BiB and if there is no satisfactory answer I think it's time to get a lawyer on the case.
They appear to be following relatively good employment procedures IMHO.
One thing she can do, before going any meeting to put her side of the story, is ask for full written details of the complaint including all the evidence, so she can fully know what the full complaint is against her.
As for plod, you say they are duty bound, they didn't feel that way when I've had stuff nicked from me.
One thing she can do, before going any meeting to put her side of the story, is ask for full written details of the complaint including all the evidence, so she can fully know what the full complaint is against her.
As for plod, you say they are duty bound, they didn't feel that way when I've had stuff nicked from me.
jamesc_1729 said:
She has a meeting on Wednesday which isn't a disciplinary yet. Instead they have said it is a formal interview for her to present her statement of innocence. Following that they will have to decide whether to move to a disciplinary or re-instate her in full.
Jamesc_1729, any updates?with a bit of luck even if they sack her, by the time the internal appeal has been got together she'll have over a year's service....
It's obvious to anyone with a brain that if the theft problem pre-dates her arrival that she isn't the culprit
The employers have to show reasonable belief after a thorough investigation and disclose all the evidence they have before any hearing. Difficult to establish reasonable belief in the light of the above.
If they decide to plough on regardless she should get her trade union involved and if she isn't a member join at once and ask them to help
It's obvious to anyone with a brain that if the theft problem pre-dates her arrival that she isn't the culprit
The employers have to show reasonable belief after a thorough investigation and disclose all the evidence they have before any hearing. Difficult to establish reasonable belief in the light of the above.
If they decide to plough on regardless she should get her trade union involved and if she isn't a member join at once and ask them to help
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