Am I being taken for a mug?
Discussion
I currently work for a very small structural engineering firm with five technical members of staff including myself. I passed my membership exam last month so I’m now an incorporated structural engineer at the age of 25.
My problem is that I undertake majority of the design whilst still being treated like a school leaver. The two senior engineers don’t produce anything of substance but emails and aren’t really the sharpest tools in the box. We’re on a four day week, but nobody’s actively searching for work.
I’ve found that I earn £1 more per hour than the receptionist which is a joke. I have set up on my alone and am aiming to go it alone, but need some advice on generating business. I have asked in the business forum.
In typing this I think I have answered my own question, but I welcome your comments on what to do etc...
My problem is that I undertake majority of the design whilst still being treated like a school leaver. The two senior engineers don’t produce anything of substance but emails and aren’t really the sharpest tools in the box. We’re on a four day week, but nobody’s actively searching for work.
I’ve found that I earn £1 more per hour than the receptionist which is a joke. I have set up on my alone and am aiming to go it alone, but need some advice on generating business. I have asked in the business forum.
In typing this I think I have answered my own question, but I welcome your comments on what to do etc...
Edited by camp freddie on Tuesday 6th October 21:11
I have asked her, but she claims that we haven't got enough work to warrant a payrise. Last year once of senior engineers started and within a week we were all on four days a week and have been since.
I'm not 100% certain about going it alone I have had a few projects from word of mouth but not too sure how I'd generate enough work to sustain it full time! I'm hoping my post in the business forum may shed some light
I didn't realise O&G industry were looking for engineers I could explore that avenue. Structural engineering isn't exactly booming in Nottingham.
I'm not 100% certain about going it alone I have had a few projects from word of mouth but not too sure how I'd generate enough work to sustain it full time! I'm hoping my post in the business forum may shed some light
I didn't realise O&G industry were looking for engineers I could explore that avenue. Structural engineering isn't exactly booming in Nottingham.
I wouldn't bother trying to get the current company to give you a better deal unless personal circs dictate i.e. if it's absolutely essential that you stay where you live now. As the junior member of the office they will continue to take advantage of your relative lack of experience and it sounds like they're nowhere near having enough business to warrant taking on a new junior engineer and give you a boost up the ladder.
It's a favourite trick to leave an enthusiastic and able engineer to do the senior job while giving them junior pay, and for a while you need to just live with it as a fact of life. However it will continue forever if you let it - there's no reason for them to alter a very suitable arrangement (for them).
Now you're chartered it's time to start getting yourself promoted. In my experience, when you're a victim of the favourite trick, promotion is best achieved by moving to another employer.
You're stuck at the bottom of the pile unless you move - so move.
Be prepared to relocate if you want the maxiumum number of options. I've seen plenty of structural engineering vacancies recently, oil and gas is a good one and I'd suggest that structural engineers can find work in renewable energy too. It may not be very popular as a morally sound recommendation on PH's pages but if it's a growing and well funded industry...
It's a favourite trick to leave an enthusiastic and able engineer to do the senior job while giving them junior pay, and for a while you need to just live with it as a fact of life. However it will continue forever if you let it - there's no reason for them to alter a very suitable arrangement (for them).
Now you're chartered it's time to start getting yourself promoted. In my experience, when you're a victim of the favourite trick, promotion is best achieved by moving to another employer.
You're stuck at the bottom of the pile unless you move - so move.
Be prepared to relocate if you want the maxiumum number of options. I've seen plenty of structural engineering vacancies recently, oil and gas is a good one and I'd suggest that structural engineers can find work in renewable energy too. It may not be very popular as a morally sound recommendation on PH's pages but if it's a growing and well funded industry...
To be fair if you've obtained chartership from the relevant body at the age of 25, then you could increase your salary if you are not bothered about relocating...
I am an Engineer also, and although I am not chartered yet at the age of 28, I get paid very well commensurate with the responsibilities I have.
My bosses aren't stupid, they are the most intelligent people I have met. They manage me as is their job, as do yours. If you are useful to the business then sit down for a chat with them as it is more loyal and also more professional. If they don't act, and I guess they will, then you can leave, and they can't think you are a slimy person for taking the view on your career above their business as they have failed.......
I am an Engineer also, and although I am not chartered yet at the age of 28, I get paid very well commensurate with the responsibilities I have.
My bosses aren't stupid, they are the most intelligent people I have met. They manage me as is their job, as do yours. If you are useful to the business then sit down for a chat with them as it is more loyal and also more professional. If they don't act, and I guess they will, then you can leave, and they can't think you are a slimy person for taking the view on your career above their business as they have failed.......
Edited by jamesc_1729 on Monday 28th September 19:22
Matthew,
We met at the tale end of last year / beginning of this year down in Southampton
Congratulations on passing your part III
I would suggest that you try and build up a potential client base before making the leap
The East Mids is my old stomping ground and I still have quite an active client base over there,
PM if you want any advice / discuss things furher
Nick
We met at the tale end of last year / beginning of this year down in Southampton
Congratulations on passing your part III
I would suggest that you try and build up a potential client base before making the leap
The East Mids is my old stomping ground and I still have quite an active client base over there,
PM if you want any advice / discuss things furher
Nick
Even though you have qualified (congratulations - it is a major step in one's life), you probably still have quite a lot of "learning" to do so look on your current position as part of that learning process.
If you are really disatisfied with your current salary levels you have tthree options -
complain
look for a better paid job elsewhere
do nothing
If you are really disatisfied with your current salary levels you have tthree options -
complain
look for a better paid job elsewhere
do nothing
Just a little point. Did the company pay for your exams/training? if they did there is often a tie in or at least a 'you must repay' type clause.
Also, I know you are confident in your abilities. I have a lad about your age who works for me. I like him, he's a good worker but he needs to be managed and it might appear from his point of view that I'm getting him to do all the work. I'm not, he's doing what is suitable at this time and with his experience. There are 2 sides to a story.
I would say getting more experience at a different Co was a good approach and keeping your sideline going as well.
Also, I know you are confident in your abilities. I have a lad about your age who works for me. I like him, he's a good worker but he needs to be managed and it might appear from his point of view that I'm getting him to do all the work. I'm not, he's doing what is suitable at this time and with his experience. There are 2 sides to a story.
I would say getting more experience at a different Co was a good approach and keeping your sideline going as well.
Defo leave when you have something lined up to go to. Never leave a role with nothing planned..... especially in this climate. Defo leave, because you will not feel the love from your employer until they physically feel business pain from you leaving. You will probably get a counter offer to stay..... unless it is unbelievably good with enormous guarantees and perks keep walking to your new opportunity. A payrise when you leave will not compensate for years worth of pisstaking.
One other thing if you accept a counter offer you are basically saying to your employer that money is your only motivator (not true...but in their eyes...). You will therefore find it even harder to get a payrise the next time.... and round and round you go!
I know a chap who was on the mid 20's for 5 years on the trot.... an absolute expert in Software Build Management for Banks. He stopped asking for a pay rise after 2 years of reviews as he was always "managed" in that there was no money in the pot..... when he eventually found something else, they offered him £12k to stay!! The muppet nearly went for it....it only equates to £2.4k for every year he has been there, also factoring in no mention of backdated pension contributions etc...
He is now Contracting in Switzerland roughly taking home £100k+ and has never looked back.
Only regret is he didn't act sooner when he realised he was basically taken for a ride.
PLAN AHEAD
One other thing if you accept a counter offer you are basically saying to your employer that money is your only motivator (not true...but in their eyes...). You will therefore find it even harder to get a payrise the next time.... and round and round you go!
I know a chap who was on the mid 20's for 5 years on the trot.... an absolute expert in Software Build Management for Banks. He stopped asking for a pay rise after 2 years of reviews as he was always "managed" in that there was no money in the pot..... when he eventually found something else, they offered him £12k to stay!! The muppet nearly went for it....it only equates to £2.4k for every year he has been there, also factoring in no mention of backdated pension contributions etc...
He is now Contracting in Switzerland roughly taking home £100k+ and has never looked back.
Only regret is he didn't act sooner when he realised he was basically taken for a ride.
PLAN AHEAD
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