Reclaiming holiday on sick, can people do this?
Discussion
Someone I know by proxy is employed full time by a large company.
They get 23 days paid holiday a year, and this company pays them if they are off sick short term (up to a consecutive month or something)
Now this chap for the past two years has, for at least a week of his booked holiday, claimed that he was actually ill during part of his holiday, and then gone to HR and because of some new EU ruling, has reclaimed his holiday to use later as he was sick on holiday.
Surely this cannot be right? It would mean that, if I were employed in the same circumstances as he is, that I could take 23 days holiday, claim I was ill over, say, 14 of them, and then extend my holiday by those 14 days...
Obviously this is grating on his workmates, one of which mentioned it to me.
This situation does not really have anything to do with me apart from my sympathies with large employers having to deal with this crap, but it does concern me, should I employ someone, that I may end up with the same type of issue...
So is this right, can you claim back paid holiday under standard employment, if you merely "claim" that you are ill? I always thought it was just a case of "tough s
t mate" - well it was when I was employed some time ago!
They get 23 days paid holiday a year, and this company pays them if they are off sick short term (up to a consecutive month or something)
Now this chap for the past two years has, for at least a week of his booked holiday, claimed that he was actually ill during part of his holiday, and then gone to HR and because of some new EU ruling, has reclaimed his holiday to use later as he was sick on holiday.
Surely this cannot be right? It would mean that, if I were employed in the same circumstances as he is, that I could take 23 days holiday, claim I was ill over, say, 14 of them, and then extend my holiday by those 14 days...
Obviously this is grating on his workmates, one of which mentioned it to me.
This situation does not really have anything to do with me apart from my sympathies with large employers having to deal with this crap, but it does concern me, should I employ someone, that I may end up with the same type of issue...
So is this right, can you claim back paid holiday under standard employment, if you merely "claim" that you are ill? I always thought it was just a case of "tough s
t mate" - well it was when I was employed some time ago!Wow that is stunning.
I do see the potential need for **something** like this to exist, but unfortunately there are so many useless wasters out there that will use this to gain more holiday to spend money made from their no win-no fee slip on a pavement claims.
What next - if you are ill over the weekend, you get to have Monday and Tuesday off as compensation?
I do see the potential need for **something** like this to exist, but unfortunately there are so many useless wasters out there that will use this to gain more holiday to spend money made from their no win-no fee slip on a pavement claims.
What next - if you are ill over the weekend, you get to have Monday and Tuesday off as compensation?
Deva Link said:
Slightly different, but I vividly remember my Dad, who was in the fire brigade, having to go into work the day before we went on holiday even though he'd been off sick for several days, due to not being allowed to take holiday if already off sick.
Very similar to Civil Service conditions, except in exceptional curcumstances -like on medical advice ferrisbueller said:
JumboBeef said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Nope. You can get these on Day One of an illness, if you wish. 
mrmr96 said:
ferrisbueller said:
JumboBeef said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Nope. You can get these on Day One of an illness, if you wish. 
It's true. The point made by the OP is also rather irrelevant.
The sort of weasel who is prepared to scam his employer by claiming to be sick during their holidays in order to gain an addition week of holiday isn't likely to think twice about just claiming to be sick for some other week of the year anyway, so it makes little difference.
It does, on the other hand, make good, hard-working employees feel that bit more looked after by their employer, and therefore likely to work that bit harder for them.
The sort of weasel who is prepared to scam his employer by claiming to be sick during their holidays in order to gain an addition week of holiday isn't likely to think twice about just claiming to be sick for some other week of the year anyway, so it makes little difference.
It does, on the other hand, make good, hard-working employees feel that bit more looked after by their employer, and therefore likely to work that bit harder for them.
TheCarpetCleaner said:
Now this chap for the past two years has, for at least a week of his booked holiday, claimed that he was actually ill during part of his holiday, and then gone to HR and because of some new EU ruling, has reclaimed his holiday to use later as he was sick on holiday.
That is a bit suspicious for it to happen two years on the trot!We had an employee that had a week off and went on holiday with his family to Cornwall, on the second day of his holiday he came down with swine flu and spent the rest of the week in bed ill, my boss didn't think twice about giving his holiday allowance back and he went again with his wife a month later.
This is a little complicated. Firstly until September 2009 there was a presumption that you were not entitled to convert holiday in sick leave unless there was a provision in the employee's terms of employment/contract/handbook.
What changed in September was a ruling from the European Court of Justice (Pereda v Madrid Movilidad SA if you want to google it).
Essentially now if the employee followed the correct procedure in reporting in sick, certifying in whatever way is laid out then they can take the time as sick and not as holiday. But they have to follow the usual procedure unless it is unreasonable to ask them to do so. Hence going on holiday and coming back saying they were ill for part of it doesn't do it, but calling in when they are on holiday and saying they are ill does do it.
There is a further complication since this is an ECJ judgement that it only covers the entitlement to holiday under the Working Time Directive, which is four weeks, and not the additional time set out in National law or any amount over the minimum.
Of course this presupposes that the company pays sick pay, a way round this is to make sick pay discretionary and then the company could put the employee on unpaid sick leave.
What changed in September was a ruling from the European Court of Justice (Pereda v Madrid Movilidad SA if you want to google it).
Essentially now if the employee followed the correct procedure in reporting in sick, certifying in whatever way is laid out then they can take the time as sick and not as holiday. But they have to follow the usual procedure unless it is unreasonable to ask them to do so. Hence going on holiday and coming back saying they were ill for part of it doesn't do it, but calling in when they are on holiday and saying they are ill does do it.
There is a further complication since this is an ECJ judgement that it only covers the entitlement to holiday under the Working Time Directive, which is four weeks, and not the additional time set out in National law or any amount over the minimum.
Of course this presupposes that the company pays sick pay, a way round this is to make sick pay discretionary and then the company could put the employee on unpaid sick leave.
mrmr96 said:
ferrisbueller said:
JumboBeef said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Nope. You can get these on Day One of an illness, if you wish. 
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