Disciplinary from Facebook

[sonic_2k_uk]

I'm always laughing at people who get into trouble at work for saying something stupidly publicly on facebook, but i've found out that the girlfriends mother has been given a disciplinary notice at work (teaching assistant) for doing something as mundane as joining a group.

She simply joined the group, which left a note on her wall, and action has been taken today.

The group text stipulates "I merely made this page because I saw the joke on a t-shirt and I thought it was kind of funny. I am sorry to anyone it might offend..." and the name "Immigrants are like sperm; millions get in - but only one works." made me laugh

Anyway, she has no idea how this was reported back to the school as there are no students etc linked to her profile, and the disciplinary action strikes me as being a little bit harsh.

The school have requested that she provides them with her facebook login details so they can analyse her account for other messages and groups - what a complete fking joke.

[Pothole]

sonic_2k_uk said:

The school have requested that she provides them with her facebook login details so they can analyse her account for other messages and groups - what a complete fking joke.

Presumably she's told them to fk off? (Unless the head provides same)

[shakotan]

I would, in the politest terms, tell them to go fk themselves.

Must she tell them whenever she receives a joke via e-mail, or whenever she watches Frankie Boyle on tv?

Which 'group' she decides top join on Facebook has no place being brought into her work environment, unless it's the Nazi Party or Kiddie Fiddlers Anonymous.

[Dangerous Dan]

sonic_2k_uk said:

The school have requested that she provides them with her facebook login details so they can analyse her account for other messages and groups - what a complete fking joke.

IANAL, but surely the school has absolutely ZERO legal basis for such a request?

[loltolhurst]

unless she has signed a computer acceptable use policy that states specifically she cannot do this they can go fk themselves. do not on any account give them the login details cheeky s.

[Dupont666]

as long as she didnt join them in work time then i dont see what they can do as she hasnt slated anyone at work or said anything that could be seen as being anything about work.

I would ask them to justify why some group she joined in her personal time has anything to do with them...

would they discipline someone who open voted tory and joined a group if the place was a labour stronghold.

I can see a lawyer having a field day with this if she has not done it during work time when she should have been teaching.

[anonymous-user]

I would argue that the is a personnel matter..

Does she list her employer on her Facebook account. I presume that is the argument they have if she does.

what annoys me in all these Facebook quotes is the human rights act which states 'freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and freedom to express your beliefs'

I am no employment lawyer but surely this falls into this category..

[loltolhurst]

is she in a union get them involved asap and tell the school where to stick it

[rpguk]

I think they would be in very hot water if they tried to push this and I certainly wouldn't be sharing my access details with them.

If they want to launch disciplinary action against her then they should provide a written notification of this and include specific details of what she has done wrong - including which part of her contact/employment handbook she has contravened.

This will pin point exactly what the problem is and it's up to them to show what the problem is (it has to be a little more specific then 'joined x group on facebook'.

If they have any brains they'll leave it as a meaningless word of warning rather then official action.

[sonic_2k_uk]

Pothole said:

Presumably she's told them to fk off?

She was in shock to be honest when i had a few words with her. I've told her not to give any details or login to her profile at work.

Dangerous Dan said:

IANAL, but surely the school has absolutely ZERO legal basis for such a request?

I'd have very much thought so also. I'd certainly be telling them to fk right off.

loltolhurst said:

unless she has signed a computer acceptable use policy that states specifically she cannot do this they can go fk themselves. do not on any account give them the login details cheeky s.

No computer usage policy signed from what she understands, and certainly nothing to do with facebook. She is one of the school governors as well, and said that they have had meetings about facebook content and new guidance which is being released nationally about it. I'm not sure if another teacher can confirm this?

The Spruce Goose said:

I would argue that the is a personnel matter..

Does she list her employer on her Facebook account. I presume that is the argument they have if she does.

what annoys me in all these Facebook quotes is the human rights act which states 'freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and freedom to express your beliefs'

I am no employment lawyer but surely this falls into this category..

She doesn't sound like she is confident enough to "fight" her position and has just caved into their comments and requests at this stage.

I have asked her for confirmation on what action they plan to take besides a written warning, but apparently it is being reported in some official manner which could end up on a permanent record.

She does list the school as her employer, so it is traceable in that sense yes.

[loltolhurst]

sonic_2k_uk said:

Pothole said:

Presumably she's told them to fk off?

She was in shock to be honest when i had a few words with her. I've told her not to give any details or login to her profile at work.

Dangerous Dan said:

IANAL, but surely the school has absolutely ZERO legal basis for such a request?

I'd have very much thought so also. I'd certainly be telling them to fk right off.

loltolhurst said:

unless she has signed a computer acceptable use policy that states specifically she cannot do this they can go fk themselves. do not on any account give them the login details cheeky s.

No computer usage policy signed from what she understands, and certainly nothing to do with facebook. She is one of the school governors as well, and said that they have had meetings about facebook content and new guidance which is being released nationally about it. I'm not sure if another teacher can confirm this?

The Spruce Goose said:

I would argue that the is a personnel matter..

Does she list her employer on her Facebook account. I presume that is the argument they have if she does.

what annoys me in all these Facebook quotes is the human rights act which states 'freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and freedom to express your beliefs'

I am no employment lawyer but surely this falls into this category..

She doesn't sound like she is confident enough to "fight" her position and has just caved into their comments and requests at this stage.

I have asked her for confirmation on what action they plan to take besides a written warning, but apparently it is being reported in some official manner which could end up on a permanent record.

She does list the school as her employer, so it is traceable in that sense yes.

get union involved asap they will fight her corner. there is NO reason for this to be on her record get the union to insist on seeing her record to make sure its not on it. do NOT take this st.

[rpguk]

loltolhurst said:

get union involved asap they will fight her corner. there is NO reason for this to be on her record get the union to insist on seeing her record to make sure its not on it. do NOT take this st.

Yes. And if she's not a union member she can ask for a copy of her file under the data protection act.

[loltolhurst]

i presume she does not get paid for being governor - i'd resign and tell them to fk themselves. written warning my arse. is she black / disabled etc if so she should sue them

[anonymous-user]

if she links the employee on her account, I am sure she has good sense, , to have a 'any comments made by myself are not representative of my employee..etc..'

This could be her caveat..that may cover her comments made...

Also something included along the lines of Facebook used for personnel use.

A screen print of her Facebook page with this on it may be enough?


Does she use it at school as that might be a bit more difficult to argue against..

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 17th May 22:48

[loltolhurst]

The Spruce Goose said:

if she links the employee on her account, I am sure she has good sense to have a 'any comments made by myself are not representative of my employee..etc..'

This could be her caveat..that may cover her comments made...

Also something included along the lines of Facebook used for personnel use.

A screen print of her Facebook page with this on it may be enough?


Does she use it at school as that might be a bit more difficult to argue against..

she's allowed to use it at school unless it specifically states in the aup that she has to have signed that she cannot. dont give them anything.

[Pothole]

The Spruce Goose said:

if she links the employee on her account, I am sure she has good sense, , to have a 'any comments made by myself are not representative of my employee..etc..'

This could be her caveat..that may cover her comments made...

Also something included along the lines of Facebook used for personnel use.

A screen print of her Facebook page with this on it may be enough?


Does she use it at school as that might be a bit more difficult to argue against..

Edited by The Spruce Goose on Monday 17th May 22:48

I assume you mean personal there? Quite an important distinction in this case! EFS

Edited by Pothole on Tuesday 18th May 14:08

[edc]

I am not clear whther a disciplinary process has been run and the outcome is some sort of sanction on file or whether the person is at the front end of the process.

If it is the latter, then this is exactly what the investigatory and disciplinary process is for. It is there to establish the facts and then to decide whether the case has any merit. Then you can though in all the opinions and mitigating circumstances you wish before deciding an outcome.

[Dupont666]

have we found out if it was done during work time or during home time?

Personal time at work doesnt count as that would be the same as saying I can go surf porn during my lunch hour cause it is 'me' time and not theirs.

[Graham E]

loltolhurst said:

i presume she does not get paid for being governor - i'd resign and tell them to fk themselves. written warning my arse. is she black / disabled etc if so she should sue them

Utter bks. She can argue over the rights and wrongs of the joining of the group. Her lineage, religion, sex, size, ability to run a 100 yard dash or watever is totally irrelevent.

And for the record, yes it's her facebok, fut Fb is not private. She must either be blissfully naive or a marginal idiot to not see what anything that could be deemed "racist" on facebook could do considering her job in this day and age.

[Pothole]

sent your OP to my sister, a Head of HR...she said:

"OK, the 'answer' to this, as with almost every HR query under the sun is 'it depends'.

1. Firstly, it depends on what your enquirer means by 'a disciplinary notice' - does this mean "a request to attend a disciplinary meeting" or "we believe you may have done something which under our policies could result in disciplinary action following an investigation" or "a verbal, written or final written warning". Without clarity on that, it's hard to know the severity of the circumstances and what action would be best to take.

2. Secondly, it depends on what the school's policy is on use of email/internet and whether the employee has breached it. If , for example, there is in place a policy, that she is aware of (or should be aware of ~ ie it's not kept secret from the staff!), that employees must not access facebook from work or from a work email address under any circumstances whatsoever, and she did access facebook at work then ... breach of policy, and possibly disciplinary action could and probably would be taken.

So I'm afraid I can't give a solid answer on the basis of this info, but some general guidance I would give would be:

When an employer takes disciplinary action, they will generally be within their rights as long as they are reasonable in how they act. What is 'reasonable' depends (again) on circumstances, but common sense says that at the very least any employee should know what the employer thinks they have done wrong, why the employer has concerns about it, and what might happen as a result. The employer should investigate the circumstances thoroughly - which may be what they are trying to do by asking for her facebook accesses.

The employer should have a disciplinary policy, and it should be available to the employees and they should know what it says and what constitutes a breach/what disciplinary actions can apply in different circumstances.

So, for this lady I would suggest:

She should get hold of the school's disciplinary policy and read it carefully. If not easily available, she should ask, politely, but firmly, for a copy.

She should also check whether she is in breach of an existing, known, policy on IT usage, facebook access etc etc - again, asking politely but firmly for the relevant policy if not easily available.

She should also ensure she understands exactly what the situation is (as per point 1 above) ie is she being given a disciplinary sanction, invited to a disciplinary hearing or what? And gets the answer in writing.

If she's actually in the wrong (ie she has breached a policy and either knew about it or should have known about it) the best thing to do is probably admit she's in the wrong, apologise sincerely and see what happens ~ but I think she can sensibly refuse to give her facebook password etc, that seems a bit excessive (as far as I can tell from the info).

If she's not in the wrong, then get everything in writing and, if necessary, contact her union rep, if she has one, or a Citizens Advice Bureau or ACAS."

hope it helps.