potential employer trying to cut out the agency
Discussion
bit of a strange one, looking for advice.
I had a call earlier from the director of an independent firm sounding me out for a role they have on offer.
to cut to the chase, after he'd told me the job description and why I'd be a good fit, I asked how he'd come by my cv. he said he'd been passed it by my ex employer. I thought this highly unlikely, so he then admitted it had been sent by an agency but he wanted to circumvent them if possible.
if interested, I am to make it appear as though I have made first contact, which to me appears dubious given that there isn't an advert anywhere that I can see. I'm just wondering what I'd be rendering myself liable to if I pursued the job.
I had a call earlier from the director of an independent firm sounding me out for a role they have on offer.
to cut to the chase, after he'd told me the job description and why I'd be a good fit, I asked how he'd come by my cv. he said he'd been passed it by my ex employer. I thought this highly unlikely, so he then admitted it had been sent by an agency but he wanted to circumvent them if possible.
if interested, I am to make it appear as though I have made first contact, which to me appears dubious given that there isn't an advert anywhere that I can see. I'm just wondering what I'd be rendering myself liable to if I pursued the job.
I don't think there would be any come back on you.
Did the agency speak to you about the job? If so then I think you are sort of honour bound to go through them, and as an aside I'd question the integrity of an employer who tried to bypass them in this manner. Unless you are fairly well known to the director anyway and it just prompted him to call you, which is kiiiiiind of understandable, but still wrong IMO.
However, if the agency never mentioned the job or company to you and are firing your CV out without your say so then I'd be inclined to say f
k em and go direct.
Did the agency speak to you about the job? If so then I think you are sort of honour bound to go through them, and as an aside I'd question the integrity of an employer who tried to bypass them in this manner. Unless you are fairly well known to the director anyway and it just prompted him to call you, which is kiiiiiind of understandable, but still wrong IMO.
However, if the agency never mentioned the job or company to you and are firing your CV out without your say so then I'd be inclined to say f
k em and go direct.I work within a city based recruitment business and this sort of things happens depending how good relationships are between the consultancy and the client.
I'm sure that the consultancy will have sent their terms of business with your CV, and by the client accepting your CV they also accept the terms.
If you like the job then go for it, the client will be invoiced by the recruitment business and there is no come back on you- apart from perhaps a damaged relationship between you the consultancy.
There are two schools of thought with regard to informing the recruiter- On one hand it is perhaps the "right thing to do", on the other depending on the ethics behind the recruitment business they may get involved and scupper your chance of getting the role.
I'm sure that the consultancy will have sent their terms of business with your CV, and by the client accepting your CV they also accept the terms.
If you like the job then go for it, the client will be invoiced by the recruitment business and there is no come back on you- apart from perhaps a damaged relationship between you the consultancy.
There are two schools of thought with regard to informing the recruiter- On one hand it is perhaps the "right thing to do", on the other depending on the ethics behind the recruitment business they may get involved and scupper your chance of getting the role.
I can't see how the agency would have any kind of come back agaist you, unless you've signed something.
However, I would be wary that in the short space of time you have known this director, he has demonstrated that he will lie, attempt to circumvent a contract he has agreed to, and ask you to collude in both of these ventures.
I'd be worried about associating myself with someone like that.
However, I would be wary that in the short space of time you have known this director, he has demonstrated that he will lie, attempt to circumvent a contract he has agreed to, and ask you to collude in both of these ventures.
I'd be worried about associating myself with someone like that.
NickHKent said:
on the other depending on the ethics behind the recruitment business they may get involved and scupper your chance of getting the role.
And how exactly are they going to do this then?The OP is already in a massively strong position, the employer must like what they've seen enough to think there's a high chance of paying the agency fees, so it's looking favourable that he will get it and I don't see how the agency will find out.
Having said that, the boss sounds duplicitous, if he'll do that to save a few K then have fun trying to get a salary review out of him.
Guess it depends how desperate you are for a job.
cheers guys.
i intend to contact him to find out more details, but my gut feeling is as that already suggested - duplicity at this stage doesn't bode well for the future. it'd be a different story if it was a 'dream' role but the company looks to be middle of the road and I'm not desperate for work.
i intend to contact him to find out more details, but my gut feeling is as that already suggested - duplicity at this stage doesn't bode well for the future. it'd be a different story if it was a 'dream' role but the company looks to be middle of the road and I'm not desperate for work.
If an employer is that underhand about something like agency fees, he's probably not the most trustworthy of people. I'd be asking myself if I really wanted to work for someone like that.
I didn't trust my gut instinct once when applying for a job and have been working in a job I really don't like for over 3.5 years now. Think carefully about what you want.
I didn't trust my gut instinct once when applying for a job and have been working in a job I really don't like for over 3.5 years now. Think carefully about what you want.
No comeback whatsoever to you. If the agency found out, it would be in thier interest to let the job go ahaead so they could bill the client.
However, that is a lot of effort and dishonesty to go to to avoid a couple of grand bill by the director. Makes them sound really tinpot and short of money.
I'd steer well clear if I were you.
However, that is a lot of effort and dishonesty to go to to avoid a couple of grand bill by the director. Makes them sound really tinpot and short of money.
I'd steer well clear if I were you.
shirt said:
if interested, I am to make it appear as though I have made first contact, which to me appears dubious given that there isn't an advert anywhere that I can see. I'm just wondering what I'd be rendering myself liable to if I pursued the job.
So... a dishonest employer wants his potential employee to be dishonest as well!I wouldn't touch that job with a bargepole.
Don
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don4l said:
shirt said:
if interested, I am to make it appear as though I have made first contact, which to me appears dubious given that there isn't an advert anywhere that I can see. I'm just wondering what I'd be rendering myself liable to if I pursued the job.
So... a dishonest employer wants his potential employee to be dishonest as well!I wouldn't touch that job with a bargepole.
Don
--
I know recruitment consultancy isn't the world's favourite profession, but assuming that he did speak to you about the role then it's completely wrong to bypass him when he has done his job, and it reflects very badly on the company, and yourself, to proceed in that way.
I get the feeling there is a bit more to this. Where did they get your contact details from? Most agencies send blind CVs. If it's out on Monster or something and the company found it this way, even with a hint from the agency CV, then it's probably legally defendable, but still pretty questionable IMO, and if that was the case then why would he mention the agency?
I'd probably avoid that employer.
And what did we learn today? Signing up with every agency in town and applying for every job you see often leads to this sort of mess. Sign up with a couple of agencies you trust and keep track of who has your CV and what jobs you are currently applying for, through which channel.
AJS- said:
don4l said:
shirt said:
if interested, I am to make it appear as though I have made first contact, which to me appears dubious given that there isn't an advert anywhere that I can see. I'm just wondering what I'd be rendering myself liable to if I pursued the job.
So... a dishonest employer wants his potential employee to be dishonest as well!I wouldn't touch that job with a bargepole.
Don
--
I know recruitment consultancy isn't the world's favourite profession, but assuming that he did speak to you about the role then it's completely wrong to bypass him when he has done his job, and it reflects very badly on the company, and yourself, to proceed in that way.
i don't recall talking to anyone about the role, I really am clueless as to where my cv has been obtained, hence my asking during the phonecall.
I get the feeling there is a bit more to this. Where did they get your contact details from? Most agencies send blind CVs. If it's out on Monster or something and the company found it this way, even with a hint from the agency CV, then it's probably legally defendable, but still pretty questionable IMO, and if that was the case then why would he mention the agency?
I'd probably avoid that employer.
And what did we learn today? Signing up with every agency in town and applying for every job you see often leads to this sort of mess. Sign up with a couple of agencies you trust and keep track of who has your CV and what jobs you are currently applying for, through which channel.
[b] I had 2 trusted agencies - both ones who asked to see me in person prior to sending out my details and who provided regular updates. I am employed via one of these on my current contract.
I didn't realise that applying via monster/cv library etc. for one role would allow my cv to be visible to other agencies. I have a particular skill set which isn't common in my area so for a while I was taking several calls a day from agencies.
about 6mths ago i actually applied for a different role at the company I'm working with now. the agency at the time made out they were pursuing it, giving updates etc. but it came to nought. I have since discovered that my employer never saw my cv back then.
similarly, for the contract I'm lining up closer to home (been offered it, just haggling over the rate) I asked at interview if they'd had my cv before. I was told they'd had it from half a dozen different agencies, only one of whom I'd heard of!
I think I'm 99% sure I'll pass on this latest one, though my inner capitalist wants to know how much cash they're offering
[/b]Either a very unscrupulous employer or the agency checking your integrety, or the company checking you out.
Go via the agency only, its the only right thing to do. If you dont you'll be working for a dishonest employer who thinks you are willing to be dishonest too. Like when two people have an affair then start dating but neither trust the other
Go via the agency only, its the only right thing to do. If you dont you'll be working for a dishonest employer who thinks you are willing to be dishonest too. Like when two people have an affair then start dating but neither trust the other
bonsai said:
NickHKent said:
on the other depending on the ethics behind the recruitment business they may get involved and scupper your chance of getting the role.
And how exactly are they going to do this then?The OP is already in a massively strong position, the employer must like what they've seen enough to think there's a high chance of paying the agency fees, so it's looking favourable that he will get it and I don't see how the agency will find out.
Having said that, the boss sounds duplicitous, if he'll do that to save a few K then have fun trying to get a salary review out of him.
Guess it depends how desperate you are for a job.
The recruiter will probably call the client and inform him that he/she knows what is going on. If the client's main motivator is a cheap hire he will go with someone else, leaving our man out in the cold.
blindswelledrat said:
Just wouldn't happen Nick.
If the recruiter knew what was going on, then they have everything to gain by letting the employment go ahead becasue then they can bill the client.
Why would they scupper thier chance of a fee by gloating that they knew what was going on?
It could get messy though as the candidate did not know of the submission therefore would not have been "pre-qualified" for the role by the agent.If the recruiter knew what was going on, then they have everything to gain by letting the employment go ahead becasue then they can bill the client.
Why would they scupper thier chance of a fee by gloating that they knew what was going on?
Cheers,
Matt.
If you take the job without going via the agency your employer will end up with an invoice at some point, most agencies (mine included) put a quick call in to every interview (usually 3 months after the event) and ask for the person, for example, if Joe Bloggs went for an interview at ABC Ltd in January and was unsuccessful, come March we would ring up ABC Ltd and ask for Joe Bloggs.
We had a scenario only 2 months ago where the person that was apparently unsuccessful at interview stage answered the phone, they had the full invoice sent out to them immediately.
Obviously we do not do this with all our clients, but we certainly do it as do many agencies.
Tread very carefully, as has been said, I would not work for someone that is prepared to do this in business.
We had a scenario only 2 months ago where the person that was apparently unsuccessful at interview stage answered the phone, they had the full invoice sent out to them immediately.
Obviously we do not do this with all our clients, but we certainly do it as do many agencies.
Tread very carefully, as has been said, I would not work for someone that is prepared to do this in business.
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