ONC - HND - HNC - Talk to me
Discussion
I'm pondering doing an ONC which I understand is a precursor to completing a HND or HNC. I'm currently an engineer working in electronic security but I've hit a bit of a dead end. Its quite hard to earn any proper money unless your working for yourself. The current company I'm with are about as generous as your going to get with the pay but all other conditions are crap.
I'm a bit sick of where I am (small family business mired in politics etc etc) I want to move on a bit career wise but I'm thinking I might be better ditching this industry and using my skills as a base for getting into something a bit more technical and with better long term prospects (medical/telecoms/food production etc)
Has anyone done any of these courses on a part time basis? Are they really achievable if you are just attending evening classes or doing open university?
I'm a bit sick of where I am (small family business mired in politics etc etc) I want to move on a bit career wise but I'm thinking I might be better ditching this industry and using my skills as a base for getting into something a bit more technical and with better long term prospects (medical/telecoms/food production etc)
Has anyone done any of these courses on a part time basis? Are they really achievable if you are just attending evening classes or doing open university?
Hi there, i did an ONC full time (Mech Eng) and then went on to do a day release (one day and one evening a week) for my HNC. This took two years. After that i enrolled on a evening class to top up my HNC to a HND. IIRC, this was an additional 6 units. (HNC was 10). This took two years one evening a week. Its hard motivating yourself to get your ass to college after a full working day but i felt it was worth it.
If you could get your employer to let you have day release that is the best option. If your are studying something that would benifit them they may even pay.
Anyway, whatever you decide, good luck.
David
If you could get your employer to let you have day release that is the best option. If your are studying something that would benifit them they may even pay.
Anyway, whatever you decide, good luck.
David
I have done the ONC and HNC part time, now doing a degree part time. They are totally achievable part time. It gets a bit manic around exam time and handing in for coursework though. But I have a House/Wife/Kids and can still fit it around 40 hours in the office.
The best bit of advice I can give you is if you are serious about the subject and it will be your future career - miss out the ONC, it’s a waste of time IMO if you can get straight into the next level. There no longer is a HNC/HND its now called a Foundation Degree which is 3 years part time and is equal to a HND. If you are sure this is what you want to do and you have the necessary qualifications see if you can get on to a Bachelor’s Degree course - You can leave after 3 years and you will have enough credits for the Foundation Degree.
If you don't have the right qualifications for the course you want, go and speak to the College as they may accept any industrial experience you have.
The best bit of advice I can give you is if you are serious about the subject and it will be your future career - miss out the ONC, it’s a waste of time IMO if you can get straight into the next level. There no longer is a HNC/HND its now called a Foundation Degree which is 3 years part time and is equal to a HND. If you are sure this is what you want to do and you have the necessary qualifications see if you can get on to a Bachelor’s Degree course - You can leave after 3 years and you will have enough credits for the Foundation Degree.
If you don't have the right qualifications for the course you want, go and speak to the College as they may accept any industrial experience you have.
SplatSpeed said:
You ain't an Engineer till you have Beng after your name!
you are a technician!
if you want to able to call yourself an engineer get the qualifications.
I think theres been a long (and quite boring) thread on that subject recently. As I said on that thread if you call me out at 3 in the morning with an alarm you can't shut up or a traffic barrier thats stuck holding your business up and I fix it...I'm an engineer!you are a technician!
if you want to able to call yourself an engineer get the qualifications.
Anyway keeping this one on topic would be appreciated.
Edited by fridaypassion on Tuesday 23 November 19:59
fridaypassion said:
SplatSpeed said:
You ain't an Engineer till you have Beng after your name!
you are a technician!
if you want to able to call yourself an engineer get the qualifications.
I think theres been a long (and quite boring) thread on that subject recently. As I said on that thread if you call me out at 3 in the morning with an alarm you can't shut up or a traffic barrier thats stuck holding your business up and I fix it...I'm an engineer!you are a technician!
if you want to able to call yourself an engineer get the qualifications.
Anyway keeping this one on topic would be appreciated.
Edited by fridaypassion on Tuesday 23 November 19:59
engineering dosn't pay
it has been devalued in the UK and you will will be outsourced by an indian just as you finish your training!
I work with engineers who are competent to do the job they are paid to do regardless of what initials they have after their name... 
To answer the OP. I did all of the above before going on to do my degree. If you want practical experience and some of the theort do the above. If you want just the theory then don't do the above.
To answer the OP. I did all of the above before going on to do my degree. If you want practical experience and some of the theort do the above. If you want just the theory then don't do the above.
SplatSpeed said:
You ain't an Engineer till you have Beng after your name!
you are a technician!
if you want to able to call yourself an engineer get the qualifications.
LOL, I agree but we're stuffed good and proper nowadays. Even in my last company the coffee machine broke down and someone put a notice on it saying "Out of Order. Engineer Called" you are a technician!
if you want to able to call yourself an engineer get the qualifications.
. If one of the biggest aerospace companies in Europe can't get it right then the poor OP hasn't got a chance 
There was the same thing on Radio 2 the other morning as someone asked what you call the person that comes round to fix the boiler. Someone rang in to say "Plumber". Then someone rang to say the first chap had got it wrong and that the person would be an "Engineer". I thought to myself that someone was going to ring in again and they did. However the 3rd caller said "the person would not be classed as an engineer". Great I thought. Someone with some sense. But then he finished by saying that "the person would not be classed as an engineer, unless he was fully approved"
Anyway I digress.
OP, you can do a degree part time. This is what I did and it has served me well. It's bloody hard work though and be fully prepared to lose your social life for 6 years. The OU is a great institution but think they've dropped a lot of their electronic engineering courses over the years. From what I can gather though there are a lot more universities jumping on the bandwagon so best do some research before.
Best of luck!
To those that say you need a Beng to be an Engineer, you need to look up "Engineer" in a dictionary, or better still read the Engineering Council website (The UK regulatory body for professional Engineers) on the requirements for becoming CEng/IEng/EngTech etc.
You will find that you do NOT need a degree to be an Engineer, even for CEng.
Long time lurker BTW, just got round to my first post on here......I usually post on SELOC
You will find that you do NOT need a degree to be an Engineer, even for CEng.
Long time lurker BTW, just got round to my first post on here......I usually post on SELOC
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th November 13:17
That's because these institutes are full of cocks that want to degrade the very essence of engineering in this country.
Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
I'm doing an HNC part-time in the evening. 2 nights a week, 6pm-9pm, over two years. The assignments and assessments are fairly spread out and it's not that hard to pass them really, although I only work p/t so have plenty spare time to study.
I've already got a degree so I'm just doing the course as it's something I was interested in but couldn't find a night class.
As said I'd not bother doing an ONC. An HNC is easily achievable. Part of my course is at HND level (no idea why but anyway) and this part has been a bit heavier work-wise but still not that taxing.
I've already got a degree so I'm just doing the course as it's something I was interested in but couldn't find a night class.
As said I'd not bother doing an ONC. An HNC is easily achievable. Part of my course is at HND level (no idea why but anyway) and this part has been a bit heavier work-wise but still not that taxing.
Fatman2 said:
That's because these institutes are full of cocks that want to degrade the very essence of engineering in this country.
Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
It doesn’t change the fact that an Engineer does not need a degree, unlike a Doctor who needs a degree and a licence to practice. The term engineer is more aligned to medical professional than Doctor. Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
Its just snobbery to believe you can’t possibly have acquired the knowledge and skills to be an engineer unless you attended a university.
My father is CEng Electrical and Mechanical Design (Building Services). He works on major construction projects and has done for 40+ years. He does not have a degree (nor does he need one).
Personally I did a 4.5 year engineering apprenticeship, with 3.5 of those years in full time education, with 1 years on job training in the middle. I then got about 16 years experience before jacking it in and going for a profession that pays well!
IKB did not have a degree BTW, so I'm in good company
....Edited for speeling
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th November 15:45
98elise said:
Fatman2 said:
That's because these institutes are full of cocks that want to degrade the very essence of engineering in this country.
Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
It doesn’t change the fact that an Engineer does not need a degree, unlike a Doctor who needs a degree and a licence to practice. The term engineer is more aligned to medical professional than Doctor. Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
Its just snobbery to believe you can’t possibly have acquired the knowledge and skills to be an engineer unless you attended a university.
My father is CEng Electrical and Mechanical Design (Building Services). He works on major construction projects and has done for 40+ years. He does not have a degree (nor does he need one).
Personally I did a 4.5 year engineering apprenticeship, with 3.5 of those years in full time education, with 1 years on job training in the middle. I then got about 16 years experience before jacking it in and going for a profession that pays well!
IKB did not have a degree BTW, so I'm in good company
....Edited for speeling
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th November 15:45
98elise said:
Fatman2 said:
That's because these institutes are full of cocks that want to degrade the very essence of engineering in this country.
Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
It doesn’t change the fact that an Engineer does not need a degree, unlike a Doctor who needs a degree and a licence to practice. The term engineer is more aligned to medical professional than Doctor. Call me cynical but the IMECHE is managed and run by people that own large engineering companies in the UK. Thus it is not in their interests to make such a distinction between engineers/technicians as they want to maintain the poor salary levels in this country.
Isambard Kingdom Brunel was an engineer. How can you class him the same as someone that comes round to fix your washing machine? That is not to belittle someone that is a technician, as they are valuable people, but there is a difference.
You would not call a nurse a doctor, nor a builder an architecht.
From the Oxford dictionary:
"Engineer"
a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or structures.
a person qualified in a branch of engineering, especially as a professional:
an aeronautical engineer.
I think your assumption is slightly flawed as someone that maintains something is not the same as the person that designs it (which is what the definition implies).
Its just snobbery to believe you can’t possibly have acquired the knowledge and skills to be an engineer unless you attended a university.
My father is CEng Electrical and Mechanical Design (Building Services). He works on major construction projects and has done for 40+ years. He does not have a degree (nor does he need one).
Personally I did a 4.5 year engineering apprenticeship, with 3.5 of those years in full time education, with 1 years on job training in the middle. I then got about 16 years experience before jacking it in and going for a profession that pays well!
IKB did not have a degree BTW, so I'm in good company
....Edited for speeling
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th November 15:45
In principle I agree with you. Many of the retired engineers I know (who are some of the best I've worked with) didn't do degrees as they were too expensive 50-60 years ago. They subsequently did degree level courses etc. but this was many years down the line.
I think we are (possibly) on the same lines. The point I was trying to make was that it is the learning of science/physics (or whatever the discipline requires) being the distinction between an engineer and technician. If I suggested you needed a piece of paper then I'm sorry but I thought you were backing the coffee machine repair man
Years ago doctors didn't have degrees either it's just that modern times have generally dictated that you do in order to learn/train the job.
You are perhaps part of the 'grey' that makes it difficult for anyone to say that all engineers need degrees to be classed and 'engineer'. Some would even suggest that proper engineers are chartered but I guess that's another arguement altogether. Ultimately though my belief is that a proper engineer is someone that applies scientific concepts to solve often complex problems.
My bugbear is that we now have waste disposal engineers, refrigeration engineers etc. and institutions like the IMECHE who do nothing to support the very people they cream money off every year.
Incidentally Gillian Mckeith called herself the food doctor and is nothing of the sort, but has not really been taken to task over her self naming of a Doctor. Fortunately this doesn't happen very often as I'm sure Doctors across the country would be in uproar if people abused the title as much as they do with engineers.
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