University or straight to Work?
Discussion
Hi chaps and chapesses,
Basically i've got an offer from my 1st choice University (Hertfordshire)to study Automotive technology with management BSC however what with the raised tuition fee's, it has made me think about whether it is the right choice for me.
Whilst going through the University application process, i discovered that there are very few Universities that do this paticular course (automotive technology) and after reading several posts on here about worthless degrees, it's making me believe that this might be one? I didn't exactly put all my effort into school so an engineering course is out of my reach (not paticularly what im interested in fully)
The course contains various skills from:
IT
Materials and electrical science
CAD/CAM
Automotive Chassis and Powertrain Technology
amongst many others.
However my main concern is, will i be wasting 4 years of my life, on a useless degree? Having done research into the course im struggling to find what sort of career can come out of this.
In the long run, i'd like to go into some sort of management role, eg service manager at a dealership etc.
Having worked at a Nissan HPC before, it is something that has always interested me, however i also think that studying this degree will enable me to work for an OEM with a bigger career ladder?
If anyone has studied this degree or could help me shed some light, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and have a Merry Christmas, David
Basically i've got an offer from my 1st choice University (Hertfordshire)to study Automotive technology with management BSC however what with the raised tuition fee's, it has made me think about whether it is the right choice for me.
Whilst going through the University application process, i discovered that there are very few Universities that do this paticular course (automotive technology) and after reading several posts on here about worthless degrees, it's making me believe that this might be one? I didn't exactly put all my effort into school so an engineering course is out of my reach (not paticularly what im interested in fully)
The course contains various skills from:
IT
Materials and electrical science
CAD/CAM
Automotive Chassis and Powertrain Technology
amongst many others.
However my main concern is, will i be wasting 4 years of my life, on a useless degree? Having done research into the course im struggling to find what sort of career can come out of this.
In the long run, i'd like to go into some sort of management role, eg service manager at a dealership etc.
Having worked at a Nissan HPC before, it is something that has always interested me, however i also think that studying this degree will enable me to work for an OEM with a bigger career ladder?
If anyone has studied this degree or could help me shed some light, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and have a Merry Christmas, David
Well, this is the thing, isn't it. There's nothing wrong with raising the cap and it only seems to have meant people have to think about whether their degree in cheese strings is something that should really be done anyway. So the question is: does your degree really result in unemployment? What does your university say? What percentage of graduates from that automotive course end up in jobs upon graduating and what percentage end up in relevant jobs?
If you want to get into dealership service management, why not give a few of your local dealerships a call and ask them for advice? I am sure they will be happy to help.
Also, do OEMs have graduate training schemes? What degrees do they recommend potential recruits study?
If you want to get into dealership service management, why not give a few of your local dealerships a call and ask them for advice? I am sure they will be happy to help.
Also, do OEMs have graduate training schemes? What degrees do they recommend potential recruits study?
Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 24th December 12:13
ShadownINja said:
Well, this is the thing, isn't it. There's nothing wrong with raising the cap and it only seems to have meant people have to think about whether their degree in cheese strings is something that should really be done anyway. So the question is: does your degree really result in unemployment? What does your university say? What percentage of graduates from that automotive course end up in jobs upon graduating and what percentage end up in relevant jobs?
Yes, i agree with you, and it certainly has made me think about it, part of the reason why i started the topic, as i'm trying to work out if it is actually a worthwile degreeShadownINja said:
If you want to get into dealership service management, why not give a few of your local dealerships a call and ask them for advice? I am sure they will be happy to help.
This is something i have to do, i will contact the dealership i used to work for and ask their advice, however it's been almost 2 years since speaking with the dealer principal.ShadownINja said:
Also, do OEMs have graduate training schemes? What degrees do they recommend potential recruits study?
yes they do, but often wanting an engineering degree or a management degree, whilst the course is part management, somehow i don't think it would be acceptable.Thanks
I read somewhere the other day that one of the big retail car group was now doing management development programmes. Can't remember which one though - try am-online.com its probably on there.
I didn't do great at school because all I wanted to do was work with cars! Been a dealer service manager, after sales manager, regional manager for manufacturer, it can be done without a degree!!
I didn't do great at school because all I wanted to do was work with cars! Been a dealer service manager, after sales manager, regional manager for manufacturer, it can be done without a degree!!
The stats for the department should be available from their website. I think a phone call is the quickest way of dealing with it.
As for your dealership, if you butter them up by telling them you really enjoyed working their and were inspired by them to pursue a career in the industry...
As for the OEM schemes, I would speak to them. If they prefer engineering and/or management over Automotive Technology with Management, then to do that would put you at a disadvantage. (It does sound like a good and relevant course, mind.)
As for your dealership, if you butter them up by telling them you really enjoyed working their and were inspired by them to pursue a career in the industry...
As for the OEM schemes, I would speak to them. If they prefer engineering and/or management over Automotive Technology with Management, then to do that would put you at a disadvantage. (It does sound like a good and relevant course, mind.)
Be careful - no one can tell you what to do and it's your choice.
Remember the university advice is one sided, because they need students to go there because you are the source of their income. Essentially you're getting heavily in debt to pay their wages. £9k x 4 = £36,000. That my friend is a LOT of cash.
You may not realise it yet because you have no basis of comparison but take your average salary you expect to earn and work out how long you would have to work to pay that off (take away roughly 10% of all your earnings after tax). You've got to ask yourself is 10% of your salary for the next X amount of years worth it? Is there an alternative route - ok, not the easiest but is it still possible. Working your socks off getting experience as a junior often (these days) counts even more than a degree, so bear in mind its your attitude that gets you a job and not a bit of paper.
Despite what everyone says, having a degree is not the bee-all and end-all. Even when you get a degree, remember you'll then be up against hundreds or even thousands of others for the types of jobs you want. You got to stand out from the crowd, so obviously employers ask "from a top uni" and then "from a specific course". There often is no real valid reason for it, except that employers can afford to cherry pick the very best (and they're up against you - on an international scale).
A degree is nothing like real working experience. I've yet to meet a student that is up and ready to work every day at 9am and works solid throughout until finished.
Is there anything a degree will give you in terms of learning that you cannot afford not to learn to get your job? Or is it possible to work your way through the ranks (plus gaining more to put on your CV)?
Try not to listen to your mates too much - its like the blind leading the blind, often leading to everyone following eachother like sheep for no valid reason.
A mate of mine went to uni of Hertfordshire. First year was great fun, but after that he said the place depressed him (there's not a lot there and its very windy). He is now heavily in debt and although he has the job he wanted, he does say he regrets the amount of cash that gets taken from him from his wage because he wanted to do the uni thing and party with everyone else.
Some people think uni is worth it, others don't and those in the middle tend to follow like sheep and go for no valid reason.
All I can say is go with your gut feeling and do what YOU want to do. GOODLUCK!
Remember the university advice is one sided, because they need students to go there because you are the source of their income. Essentially you're getting heavily in debt to pay their wages. £9k x 4 = £36,000. That my friend is a LOT of cash.
You may not realise it yet because you have no basis of comparison but take your average salary you expect to earn and work out how long you would have to work to pay that off (take away roughly 10% of all your earnings after tax). You've got to ask yourself is 10% of your salary for the next X amount of years worth it? Is there an alternative route - ok, not the easiest but is it still possible. Working your socks off getting experience as a junior often (these days) counts even more than a degree, so bear in mind its your attitude that gets you a job and not a bit of paper.
Despite what everyone says, having a degree is not the bee-all and end-all. Even when you get a degree, remember you'll then be up against hundreds or even thousands of others for the types of jobs you want. You got to stand out from the crowd, so obviously employers ask "from a top uni" and then "from a specific course". There often is no real valid reason for it, except that employers can afford to cherry pick the very best (and they're up against you - on an international scale).
A degree is nothing like real working experience. I've yet to meet a student that is up and ready to work every day at 9am and works solid throughout until finished.
Is there anything a degree will give you in terms of learning that you cannot afford not to learn to get your job? Or is it possible to work your way through the ranks (plus gaining more to put on your CV)?
Try not to listen to your mates too much - its like the blind leading the blind, often leading to everyone following eachother like sheep for no valid reason.
A mate of mine went to uni of Hertfordshire. First year was great fun, but after that he said the place depressed him (there's not a lot there and its very windy). He is now heavily in debt and although he has the job he wanted, he does say he regrets the amount of cash that gets taken from him from his wage because he wanted to do the uni thing and party with everyone else.
Some people think uni is worth it, others don't and those in the middle tend to follow like sheep and go for no valid reason.
All I can say is go with your gut feeling and do what YOU want to do. GOODLUCK!
Edited by Anubis on Friday 24th December 12:52
Edited by Anubis on Friday 24th December 12:56
Its the age old question I suppose. Is it going all the way to £9k? Unlikley at that uni I would imagine.
I think that there are very few cases where the degree is going to pay its way, the few where it will to me seem to be banking/law and a few other things I am sure I've missed. My freinds who have those degrees (from top places with the right work exp and refrences, remember, its who you know) have gone straight into work on very high money £35k+ the rest I would imagine will fall into the wayside. What I think is more important than any degree is how keen you are, how well you speak, and how your CV looks. Once you've got that interview you have as good a chance as anyone imo.
What people at uni do not realise is, is that after the first gad job, they're unlikley to be asked about it ever again, and that is a lot of money to land a £20k job... Worse than all of that is when you start you start on the first day and the guy next to you is a year older earning better money as he has been there 3 years, but doesn't have a degree.
Sorry about the grammar, this laptop is woeful. And I didn't go to uni
I think that there are very few cases where the degree is going to pay its way, the few where it will to me seem to be banking/law and a few other things I am sure I've missed. My freinds who have those degrees (from top places with the right work exp and refrences, remember, its who you know) have gone straight into work on very high money £35k+ the rest I would imagine will fall into the wayside. What I think is more important than any degree is how keen you are, how well you speak, and how your CV looks. Once you've got that interview you have as good a chance as anyone imo.
What people at uni do not realise is, is that after the first gad job, they're unlikley to be asked about it ever again, and that is a lot of money to land a £20k job... Worse than all of that is when you start you start on the first day and the guy next to you is a year older earning better money as he has been there 3 years, but doesn't have a degree.
Sorry about the grammar, this laptop is woeful. And I didn't go to uni
Edited by okgo on Friday 24th December 14:03
Talk2Dave said:
to study Automotive technology with management BSC
Don't bother. Too many males chasing the same jobs with a dwindling UK automotive presence. You'll end up spending years and years working your way up through £25k-30k, when you could just choose another industry that actually needs people and you'll be on £30k in 2-3 years.
I'm at Herts uni doing motor sport tech with management. Still in first year so all my lectures are shared with auto tech and some are shared with BEng.
Out of 50 or so people on the motorsport course there are only 12 on the auto course so not many!!
Herts has some good facilities to play with; such as a rolling road, engine dynos, a suspension jig and a small wind tunnel. Employment prospects look pretty good on the motorsport side with 6 last year going straight into F1 and about 20 going into other forms of top level motorsport (BTCC, WTCC, WRC one even went to Nascar).
Don't know if I'd have left my job to go if it was going to cost me 9 grand a year though to be honest.
Out of 50 or so people on the motorsport course there are only 12 on the auto course so not many!!
Herts has some good facilities to play with; such as a rolling road, engine dynos, a suspension jig and a small wind tunnel. Employment prospects look pretty good on the motorsport side with 6 last year going straight into F1 and about 20 going into other forms of top level motorsport (BTCC, WTCC, WRC one even went to Nascar).
Don't know if I'd have left my job to go if it was going to cost me 9 grand a year though to be honest.
cqueen said:
Talk2Dave said:
to study Automotive technology with management BSC
Don't bother. Too many males chasing the same jobs with a dwindling UK automotive presence. You'll end up spending years and years working your way up through £25k-30k, when you could just choose another industry that actually needs people and you'll be on £30k in 2-3 years.
It might make sense to look at a more general engineering course, which could then be applied to a great many fields.
From what i believe is that most companies perfer to train someone from the begining insteaad of someone from universitiy as potentialy you are more likely to not be as comited to work as you have spent x amount of years not in work where you could be learning working life. In my situation i went for an apprentership in mechanics rather than going to colege and glad i did you learn to work on various different cars/vans and under different conditions which you dont get in colege working on the same cars that dont go on the roads. Also your working on customers cars so cant mess things up and got to take pride in your work where in colege/university you have'nt got as much care in working on cars so i would personally go to different manafactures and companies to train you up rather than going to university.
Actually, the auto industry is starting to haul it's way out of the doldrums. Auto engineers are in short supply in the USA ( http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/automotiv... ) and we are hearing anecdotal evidence when we talk to the industry that shortages are beginning to be experienced this side of the pond too.
Edited by bunyarra on Friday 24th December 18:51
okgo said:
Where does it say its going to 9k?
As above, it's unlikely to be 9k, that's a maximum. The fee for each university is set by the unis themselves, the govt just gives them a max figure.I think we will see universities beginning to compete on price, especially as less students apply due to costs.
MG CHRIS said:
From what i believe is that most companies perfer to train someone from the begining insteaad of someone from universitiy as potentialy you are more likely to not be as comited to work.
you learn to work on various different cars/vans and under different conditions which you dont get in colege working on the same cars that dont go on the roads. Also your working on customers cars so cant mess things up
As stated in the original post, in university he's not going to learn how to change brake pads and head gaskets. It will be far more advanced than that, such as using CAD/CAM to design chassis components, engine design, stress testing etc. A bit more than 'working on customers cars'.you learn to work on various different cars/vans and under different conditions which you dont get in colege working on the same cars that dont go on the roads. Also your working on customers cars so cant mess things up
Also 'Most Companies' would not prefer to train an engineer. Less committed to work? Never heard that one before, I expect you'd have to be bloody committed once you've invest a good chunk of money and 3/4 years into it.
Nowadays you won't get into an engineering role within automotive without a relevent degree. It was possible 10/20years ago, but today it just won't happen.
You need to consider the type of job you want out of it. If it's running/managing a service centre then the degree doesn't sound like it would be much good to you. These kind of roles tend to end up going to the experienced technicians after a good few years work - your best bet for this would be to get an apprenticeship and try to do some sort of business classes in the evenings to show your desire to move up within the company.
If you want to be designing cars, then you will need to get a mechanical engineering type degree (Mech Eng, Auto Eng, MSport Eng etc). I see a massive shortage of good young engineers coming through these courses and so, if your good, you should have good prospects. My concern with 'Automotive Technology' is that it might be a bit too vague in terms of what it covers - a more focussed engineering based degree would be my advise!
Good car designers can earn good money quickly - I have a contractor working on one of my projects whose been out of uni 2 yrs (23y/o) and he's just about to get a raise from his current rate of £22/hour. He's very good at the job, eager to work (60hr week is his 'standard'!) and absorbs information like a sponge - very few grads are like this, but the ones that are do well and end up in the good jobs!
You need to consider the type of job you want out of it. If it's running/managing a service centre then the degree doesn't sound like it would be much good to you. These kind of roles tend to end up going to the experienced technicians after a good few years work - your best bet for this would be to get an apprenticeship and try to do some sort of business classes in the evenings to show your desire to move up within the company.
If you want to be designing cars, then you will need to get a mechanical engineering type degree (Mech Eng, Auto Eng, MSport Eng etc). I see a massive shortage of good young engineers coming through these courses and so, if your good, you should have good prospects. My concern with 'Automotive Technology' is that it might be a bit too vague in terms of what it covers - a more focussed engineering based degree would be my advise!
Good car designers can earn good money quickly - I have a contractor working on one of my projects whose been out of uni 2 yrs (23y/o) and he's just about to get a raise from his current rate of £22/hour. He's very good at the job, eager to work (60hr week is his 'standard'!) and absorbs information like a sponge - very few grads are like this, but the ones that are do well and end up in the good jobs!
I think you'll be looking at £4K a year, and living expenses on top. This is slightly higher than the norm these days but i'm taking in to account possible 2011 price rises. A degree like this won't be useless, it'll show your abilities. It will also train you in more varied aspects than a course run by an employer.
You can get to where you want by either route. I could have as well, and i never really wanted to go to uni (The debt worried me at the time) But i went anyway. Life's more about the journey than getting to the top straight away. Uni will be more fun, but work will give you a bigger income. It's all personal choice. remember, no one is made to complete uni. If you chose to go and REALLY don't like it, you can leave and try something else.
Whatever you chose, just make sure it's what YOU want to do, and it's something YOU'LL enjoy.
You can get to where you want by either route. I could have as well, and i never really wanted to go to uni (The debt worried me at the time) But i went anyway. Life's more about the journey than getting to the top straight away. Uni will be more fun, but work will give you a bigger income. It's all personal choice. remember, no one is made to complete uni. If you chose to go and REALLY don't like it, you can leave and try something else.
Whatever you chose, just make sure it's what YOU want to do, and it's something YOU'LL enjoy.
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