Quantity surveyor help required
Discussion
Hi we have a problem with a major construction company regarding windows we installed on a new project, basically the windows were manufactured smaller and in some instances larger than the bill of quantities but they were still the same design. The QS is deducting costs based on a sq/m rate but I have told him this is incorrect as there is the same manufacturing time needed as the style has not changed so the only saving or increase due is the material and glass content, which he could not understand.
He referred to SMM 7 does anyone have a copy on this which relates to measuring windows , as I think I am being fair.
Thanks
He referred to SMM 7 does anyone have a copy on this which relates to measuring windows , as I think I am being fair.
Thanks
Hi Matt appreciate your help I don't think I made myself clear at the beginning , nothing was made incorrectly just that they differed from the tender dimensions on which the order was based it would have been JCT contract which is remeasured at the end.
Some windows were bigger some smaller by only 100mm in some instances but the only saving I think the client is due is the saving for the material and glass as the amount of manufacturing time remains the same just less material is used - hope that makes a bit more sense.
Cheers
Some windows were bigger some smaller by only 100mm in some instances but the only saving I think the client is due is the saving for the material and glass as the amount of manufacturing time remains the same just less material is used - hope that makes a bit more sense.
Cheers
If im understanding this correctly, you agreed on the size of the windows at tender stage and then prior to manufacturing were told that some were needed at a smaller size than previously agreed, therefore you made them at the smaller size to suit?
It depends on how the remeasurement was agreed, if it is based on a m2 basis then I think you are stuffed, but if it was agreed another way you may have a case to argue that only the material quantities reduced, not the labour.
As you note above, you have supplied an omit and add sheet for the materials which should be considered (as I would) by the QS if they are not an unreasonable idiot (if he/she is, and you have agreed on a m2 basis, again you are probably stuffed). Can you also supply evidence of manufacturing times?
It depends on how the remeasurement was agreed, if it is based on a m2 basis then I think you are stuffed, but if it was agreed another way you may have a case to argue that only the material quantities reduced, not the labour.
As you note above, you have supplied an omit and add sheet for the materials which should be considered (as I would) by the QS if they are not an unreasonable idiot (if he/she is, and you have agreed on a m2 basis, again you are probably stuffed). Can you also supply evidence of manufacturing times?
Edited by vescaegg on Thursday 3rd February 07:49
h4rvy said:
Yes just tolerance differences but over a large project it adds up to a lot of money
Ok, think I understand. Does your spec have any statement regarding tolerances? 100mm is a hell of a tolerance difference on a window and sounds more incorrect size. Has/was this picked up by the CA/PM?You want to be asking the CA if he minds the windows being a different size, ignoring the client's QS for the time being.
If he's fine with them, just get him to issue an retrospective Variation under cl. 3.12.3 (I think!)
The Variation will shut the QS up and you can start negotiating the cost.
My 2p anyway.
If he's fine with them, just get him to issue an retrospective Variation under cl. 3.12.3 (I think!)
The Variation will shut the QS up and you can start negotiating the cost.
My 2p anyway.
If I understand this right, windows are measured in number, i.e. 7nr @ 1200 x 1200mm etc, which I assume is what the BofQ will have asked for and what you priced on.
Should the dimensions change (or as in what should happen, a site visit and measure find that the revised openings need revised window sizes, which are then signed off by the site manager or CA) then they should be re-quotable as a variation to the original BofQ, whether this is an addition or omission overall. Just as a change in finishes or ironmongery would also constitute a variation.
This is the same as the difference between tender issue drawings and construction issue drawings, if there's a change it's a variation to the original BofQ. 100mm difference in size is not tolerances, it's a different sized window.
You need to get an archtiects instruction, or revised drawings to back up your claim for the change in dimensions and requote the windows as a variation. The only remeasurement applicable is number of windows, not a m2 rate. Your extra labour and materials are irrelevant to the QS, and you should have kept them to yourself, he now has info in which to negotiate your revised prices. Just reprice the different windows and submit the quote. The QS is trying to make a saving at your expense.
n.b. Site measures (by the subcontractor) are usually chargeable, otherwise it's up to the Site Agent or architect to give you the opening sizes. Getting the subbie to do it takes the onus off the contractor/client to size them correctly.
Should the dimensions change (or as in what should happen, a site visit and measure find that the revised openings need revised window sizes, which are then signed off by the site manager or CA) then they should be re-quotable as a variation to the original BofQ, whether this is an addition or omission overall. Just as a change in finishes or ironmongery would also constitute a variation.
This is the same as the difference between tender issue drawings and construction issue drawings, if there's a change it's a variation to the original BofQ. 100mm difference in size is not tolerances, it's a different sized window.
You need to get an archtiects instruction, or revised drawings to back up your claim for the change in dimensions and requote the windows as a variation. The only remeasurement applicable is number of windows, not a m2 rate. Your extra labour and materials are irrelevant to the QS, and you should have kept them to yourself, he now has info in which to negotiate your revised prices. Just reprice the different windows and submit the quote. The QS is trying to make a saving at your expense.
n.b. Site measures (by the subcontractor) are usually chargeable, otherwise it's up to the Site Agent or architect to give you the opening sizes. Getting the subbie to do it takes the onus off the contractor/client to size them correctly.
Nuisance_Value said:
You need to get an archtiects instruction, or revised drawings to back up your claim for the change in dimensions and requote the windows as a variation. The only remeasurement applicable is number of windows, not a m2 rate. Your extra labour and materials are irrelevant to the QS, and you should have kept them to yourself, he now has info in which to negotiate your revised prices. Just reprice the different windows and submit the quote. The QS is trying to make a saving at your expense.
That's what I was meaning about the cl. 3.12.3 (SBC/Q) above. Just get the CA / Architect to confirm his verbal acceptance of the windows as they are. The QS will still try to argue the change he wants in the contract sum, but he'll be in a much weaker position.Ask yourself why you were never called out by the CA on the windows not being in accordance. He must have accepted them or otherwise not noticed. Just get it tidied up with a retrospective instruction.
I'd go for the argument that as there is no instruction relating to the window sizes and the BOQ no doubt has some sort of qualification relating to site sizing and not taking sizes from the bill, then you've provided work as per the contract documentation.
No instruction = no variation = no saving!
Stick that up your pipe Mr PQS.
No instruction = no variation = no saving!
Stick that up your pipe Mr PQS.
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