M&S trying to FORCE staff to work their day off: legal?
Discussion
My Mrs is in the unenviable position of working for Marks and Spencer.
Her work pattern is a fortnightly pattern where in week 1 she will have Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday off and in week 2 she has Thursday off. Hence over the 2 weeks she works 10 days like those of us who work regular hours.
Today her manager told her that this coming weekend (her weekend off) is their stock-take and that she HAS to come in on the Saturday, irrespective of the fact that it's her normal day off and that she has social plans for the weekend.
I've told her to get a copy of her contract and also to demand that they request her to work on the Saturday in writing, and then to consult citizens' advice.
However... this doesn't sit right with me. Surely employment law can't allow an employer to force someone to work their day off at such short notice? Anyone know for certain? Or is t one of those things that a sneakily-written vaguely-phrased contract can get around?
Tellingly, M&S have consistently refused to recognise any trade unions, a fact which I think ties in neatly with their attitude towards their shop-floor staff...
Her work pattern is a fortnightly pattern where in week 1 she will have Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday off and in week 2 she has Thursday off. Hence over the 2 weeks she works 10 days like those of us who work regular hours.
Today her manager told her that this coming weekend (her weekend off) is their stock-take and that she HAS to come in on the Saturday, irrespective of the fact that it's her normal day off and that she has social plans for the weekend.
I've told her to get a copy of her contract and also to demand that they request her to work on the Saturday in writing, and then to consult citizens' advice.
However... this doesn't sit right with me. Surely employment law can't allow an employer to force someone to work their day off at such short notice? Anyone know for certain? Or is t one of those things that a sneakily-written vaguely-phrased contract can get around?
Tellingly, M&S have consistently refused to recognise any trade unions, a fact which I think ties in neatly with their attitude towards their shop-floor staff...
phil-sti said:
one day.... does it matter?
(1) Yes. It's a s
tty job that nobody actually wants to do (I mean working for M&S in general, not just the stock take), so time of is precious and hence people make plans for their days off. And...(2) It sets a nasty precedent, if the management decide that they can make staff work days off at short notice then you end up in a situation where nobody can commit to any sort of leisure activity on those days in case they're dragged in at short notice. Which is pretty much paid slavery, no?
Edited by Jonny_ on Tuesday 15th February 22:09
It's the same with Starbucks and my gf...she works in a store in London and I live in Nottingham and on several of her days off when she has been visiting me in notts they have called (or text...which i think is really unprofessional) and tell her to go into work....she says no and then they grill her on why she can't come in on her day off and strongly suggest she gets on a train back to London to help out the store!
Jonny_ said:
My Mrs is in the unenviable position of working for Marks and Spencer.
Her work pattern is a fortnightly pattern where in week 1 she will have Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday off and in week 2 she has Thursday off. Hence over the 2 weeks she works 10 days like those of us who work regular hours.
Today her manager told her that this coming weekend (her weekend off) is their stock-take and that she HAS to come in on the Saturday, irrespective of the fact that it's her normal day off and that she has social plans for the weekend.
I've told her to get a copy of her contract and also to demand that they request her to work on the Saturday in writing, and then to consult citizens' advice.
However... this doesn't sit right with me. Surely employment law can't allow an employer to force someone to work their day off at such short notice? Anyone know for certain? Or is t one of those things that a sneakily-written vaguely-phrased contract can get around?
Tellingly, M&S have consistently refused to recognise any trade unions, a fact which I think ties in neatly with their attitude towards their shop-floor staff...
They can't force you to work. They can however choose not to pay you if you choose not to work...Her work pattern is a fortnightly pattern where in week 1 she will have Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday off and in week 2 she has Thursday off. Hence over the 2 weeks she works 10 days like those of us who work regular hours.
Today her manager told her that this coming weekend (her weekend off) is their stock-take and that she HAS to come in on the Saturday, irrespective of the fact that it's her normal day off and that she has social plans for the weekend.
I've told her to get a copy of her contract and also to demand that they request her to work on the Saturday in writing, and then to consult citizens' advice.
However... this doesn't sit right with me. Surely employment law can't allow an employer to force someone to work their day off at such short notice? Anyone know for certain? Or is t one of those things that a sneakily-written vaguely-phrased contract can get around?
Tellingly, M&S have consistently refused to recognise any trade unions, a fact which I think ties in neatly with their attitude towards their shop-floor staff...
The contract will say that she may be requested to work scheduled days off if sufficient notice is given due to the needs of the business. Stock takes are st but they need doing and I hate whiny sods who try and shirk it and land it on everyone else.
I'd expect at least a weeks notice in her position though, probably 2 given her shift cycle.
t but they need doing and I hate whiny sods who try and shirk it and land it on everyone else.I'd expect at least a weeks notice in her position though, probably 2 given her shift cycle.
I imagine that it'll be covered in her contract. I think it's a fairly common clause in most employment contracts even if it's never implemented. I can't remember the exact wording used but it's something along the lines of working extra hours over and above your contracted hours to meet business needs. Of course these are usually paid at an overtime rate.
I wouldn't have thought that working an extra day to cover an annual stock take was really a huge ask? I wish that I only had to work an extra day once in a while, it seems to be a fairly regular occurence for me at the moment
I wouldn't have thought that working an extra day to cover an annual stock take was really a huge ask? I wish that I only had to work an extra day once in a while, it seems to be a fairly regular occurence for me at the moment
silvagod said:
Congratulations on the most dramatic comment ever. 
Yeah, fair comment mate! 
Was a bit pissed off 'cos it's upset my mrs, although it's something of a peak on a long plateau of crap treatment by alleged "managers" who can't think more than 6 hours ahead.deevlash said:
The contract will say that she may be requested to work scheduled days off if sufficient notice is given due to the needs of the business. Stock takes are st but they need doing and I hate whiny sods who try and shirk it and land it on everyone else.
I'd expect at least a weeks notice in her position though, probably 2 given her shift cycle.
Exactly. Fair enough they can request people to work overtime at reasonable notice, but the management know when something like a stock take will be taking place WELL in advance. t but they need doing and I hate whiny sods who try and shirk it and land it on everyone else.I'd expect at least a weeks notice in her position though, probably 2 given her shift cycle.
What I consider to be 100% out of order is expecting that everyone can just drop all their other commitments, abandon events they might have already paid for, etc etc, to make up for their boss lacking the foresight to check staff availability before the last minute and plan accordingly.
Edited by Jonny_ on Tuesday 15th February 22:10
Surely if staff are on a 2 week rota, half the staff will be off on that Saturday anyway, so surely it would be more beneficial for them to 'ask' if anyone would like an additional days overtime.
Fairly sure there would be a number of people who would appreciate an extra days overtime now and again.
Fairly sure there would be a number of people who would appreciate an extra days overtime now and again.
Jonny_ said:
(1) Yes. It's a stty job that nobody actually wants to do (I mean working for M&S in general, not just the stock take), so time of is precious and hence people make plans for their days off.
So if she doesn't like it quit if it's such a stty job that nobody actually wants to do (I mean working for M&S in general, not just the stock take), so time of is precious and hence people make plans for their days off. Edited by Jonny_ on Tuesday 15th February 22:09
tty job......we all make plans for our days off or evenings..but sometimes s
t happens. Then its time to decide where your priorities lie.GT03ROB said:
Jonny_ said:
(1) Yes. It's a stty job that nobody actually wants to do (I mean working for M&S in general, not just the stock take), so time of is precious and hence people make plans for their days off.
So if she doesn't like it quit if it's such a stty job that nobody actually wants to do (I mean working for M&S in general, not just the stock take), so time of is precious and hence people make plans for their days off. Edited by Jonny_ on Tuesday 15th February 22:09
tty job......we all make plans for our days off or evenings..but sometimes s
t happens. Then its time to decide where your priorities lie.She just needs to say that whilst she can do it this time, make them aware that it is inconvinencing her greatly and she is having to cancel her plans and she is happy to do it if the whole day is on overtime rate or she gets a day in leiu... If not then she could say that she doesnt want to go in without resonable compensation as its a 2 way thing.
Do not get angry and do not b
h and moan...Yea it will be written in the contract somewhere, i work for a large DIY store wich is not B&Q lol. It is also written into my contract although im sure they have to change shifts if they want you to work it as i think they cannot force you to do overtime. I think they forgot about it and have just realised so they are trying to force people to do it because they forgot to ammend the rotas.
I am amazed how many people think this is reasonable. It is a stock-take, so a planned event, not an emergency cover request. I would want more than 4 days notice of an enforced change to my roster. Given 4 days or less and having already 'made plans' I would feel within my rights to refuse.
'Made plans' for me could conceivably include buying an expensive ticket to somewhere like Goodwood FoS, some months in advance. Looking forward to that for six months, then told 4 days before that you can't go? A day in lieu is not going to cut much ice, is it?
How much notice do M&S require their staff give for leave requests? Where I work annual leave has to be covered so management have to make arrangements for that. For this reason two weeks notice from staff is required. Requests can still be denied if changes cannot be made. I would expect at least the same consideration from an employer when requesting me to drop a day off.
'Made plans' for me could conceivably include buying an expensive ticket to somewhere like Goodwood FoS, some months in advance. Looking forward to that for six months, then told 4 days before that you can't go? A day in lieu is not going to cut much ice, is it?
How much notice do M&S require their staff give for leave requests? Where I work annual leave has to be covered so management have to make arrangements for that. For this reason two weeks notice from staff is required. Requests can still be denied if changes cannot be made. I would expect at least the same consideration from an employer when requesting me to drop a day off.
smashing said:
It's the same with Starbucks and my gf...she works in a store in London and I live in Nottingham and on several of her days off when she has been visiting me in notts they have called (or text...which i think is really unprofessional) and tell her to go into work....she says no and then they grill her on why she can't come in on her day off and strongly suggest she gets on a train back to London to help out the store!
Poor management. Unfortunately a lot of similar stores have similar problems. Manager thinks rostering a bare minimum of staff on a particular day will be ok, everyone else sees it's going to be busy, doesn't like the manager, so pulls a sickie. Then manager comes in to having no staff, panicks that they'll have to talk to the general public and tries to get others to come in.Used to happen to me all the time. I would always make sure they did me time and a half at least, and pay me for the whole day. Not at Starbucks, I hasten to add, but a very similar, now defunct, chain. Got me enough petrol money for some road trips when I was a 17 year old!
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