Redundancy notice - time limit?
Discussion
Is there a time limit you can be held on redundancy notice for?
Situation at work is that we've been on offical redundancy notice for close to 2 years now. Obviously the 90 days notice and consultation period has long been and gone.
I work for one of the various contractor companies under the parent company. If we ask our company for clarification of the situation / dates etc we just get fobbed of with the excuse the parent company are not telling them anything.
Legally can the parent company just keep doing this for as long as it suits them?
Is the company you have an employment contract with part of a group, or is it strictly independent? I could not glean this from your OP. Were redundancies made following the initial consultation period?
You can be given notice that your role may be at risk of redundancy and that notice reinforced a number of times, it is actually very responsible of the employer to do so, as it gives employees time to prepare and to look for alternative employment. Whilst it is not a great situation to be in limbo for so long, if your employer does not have a direct connection with the company making the decision, they can offer speculation or nothing by way of information.
You can be given notice that your role may be at risk of redundancy and that notice reinforced a number of times, it is actually very responsible of the employer to do so, as it gives employees time to prepare and to look for alternative employment. Whilst it is not a great situation to be in limbo for so long, if your employer does not have a direct connection with the company making the decision, they can offer speculation or nothing by way of information.
fergywales said:
Is the company you have an employment contract with part of a group, or is it strictly independent?
I'm not 100% sure. In theory they are a seperate independant company. In practice they just do whatever the parent company tells them to do.fergywales said:
Were redundancies made following the initial consultation period?
Nobody has been made redundant yet. We went through a consultation period and a redundancy compromise agreement was reached. Initially they said they would allow volunteers to go but when it looked like there would be a mass exodus they then withdrew that offer.the word 'reasonable' springs to mind.
I am sure that any further changes to your employment would need to start a new process again. How many tribunals would side with an employer who takes two years to make a decision? The exaggerated version is to join on the Monday and get put on notice of consultation on the Friday and you then work there five years. Tribunals do not always look at what is written, they look at operating procedure so I would think that the organisation has hoped if it did not mention the debacle then the employees would not either.
I am sure that any further changes to your employment would need to start a new process again. How many tribunals would side with an employer who takes two years to make a decision? The exaggerated version is to join on the Monday and get put on notice of consultation on the Friday and you then work there five years. Tribunals do not always look at what is written, they look at operating procedure so I would think that the organisation has hoped if it did not mention the debacle then the employees would not either.
softtop said:
the word 'reasonable' springs to mind.
I am sure that any further changes to your employment would need to start a new process again. How many tribunals would side with an employer who takes two years to make a decision? The exaggerated version is to join on the Monday and get put on notice of consultation on the Friday and you then work there five years. Tribunals do not always look at what is written, they look at operating procedure so I would think that the organisation has hoped if it did not mention the debacle then the employees would not either.
Is the OPs employer not being 'reasonable' in not notifying employees that the risk of redundancy has passed, giving a false sense of security?I am sure that any further changes to your employment would need to start a new process again. How many tribunals would side with an employer who takes two years to make a decision? The exaggerated version is to join on the Monday and get put on notice of consultation on the Friday and you then work there five years. Tribunals do not always look at what is written, they look at operating procedure so I would think that the organisation has hoped if it did not mention the debacle then the employees would not either.
fergywales said:
Is the OPs employer not being 'reasonable' in not notifying employees that the risk of redundancy has passed, giving a false sense of security?
Just to add,There is no chance the risk of redundancy will pass. My job is being given to another company in Eastern Europe. The products and process are being transferred over there.
The reason it has dragged on for 2 years is that the parent company and the new company are making such a 'james hunt' of the transfer.
What we are trying to do is to get them to draw a line in the sand at say 2 years from the first date of redundancy notice.
If there are still no redundancies by this point then they *must* allow volunteers to go with the agreed redundancy package.
The *must* bit we are trying to back up with employment rules/laws but we can't find anything that says this. It seems you can keep somebody on redundancy notice for as long as you like.
The consultation that has taken place must have had timescales included within the proposal from the employer. If these timescales have elapsed without action, then that period of consultation is null and void. No ET in the UK would accept 2 years elapsing as being reasonable, especially in the current climate.
Are you in a Trade Union?
Are you in a Trade Union?
My usual advice to employers to comply with legislation:
The objectives of consultation is to explore ways of:-
avoiding the redundancies
reducing the number of employees to be dismissed
mitigating the consequences of the dismissals.
The law states that the negotiations must be meaningful. That is, the employer should be prepared to make an agreement and not merely be telling the representatives what s/he is going to do.
The employee representatives must be given enough time to consider the proposals being suggested. The consultation period cannot begin until the employer gives the representatives, in writing:-
the reasons for the proposed redundancies; and
the number and types of employees s/he intends to make redundant; and
the total number of each type of employee s/he intends to make redundant; and
the proposed methods of selecting those to be made redundant and the proposed procedure for carrying out the redundancies, including the period when the redundancies will take effect; and
information about how any redundancy payments (other than statutory redundancy payments) will be calculated.
If there is no recognised union, the employer should invite affected employees to elect representatives. If no employee representatives are elected within a reasonable time after the employer has invited affected employees to elect representatives, the employer must give each affected employee the same information.
The objectives of consultation is to explore ways of:-
avoiding the redundancies
reducing the number of employees to be dismissed
mitigating the consequences of the dismissals.
The law states that the negotiations must be meaningful. That is, the employer should be prepared to make an agreement and not merely be telling the representatives what s/he is going to do.
The employee representatives must be given enough time to consider the proposals being suggested. The consultation period cannot begin until the employer gives the representatives, in writing:-
the reasons for the proposed redundancies; and
the number and types of employees s/he intends to make redundant; and
the total number of each type of employee s/he intends to make redundant; and
the proposed methods of selecting those to be made redundant and the proposed procedure for carrying out the redundancies, including the period when the redundancies will take effect; and
information about how any redundancy payments (other than statutory redundancy payments) will be calculated.
If there is no recognised union, the employer should invite affected employees to elect representatives. If no employee representatives are elected within a reasonable time after the employer has invited affected employees to elect representatives, the employer must give each affected employee the same information.
Reading what Cmof has written I would agree that my employer has followed the proper procedure.
The sticking point is that it has dragged on far too long and it appears they can just keep doing this for an indefinite period.
We have no communication from the parent company other than 'business needs mean no redundancies yet'
Our employer simply states 'The parent company have not told us to reduce the headcount yet'
Peoples lives have been on hold for 2 years now.
Plenty of people want to leave with the agreed redundancy package but they won't let them go with the package until the parent company indicates to reduce the headcount.
If I'm being cynical I'd say they are trying to force us to leave without the package by pissing us off as much as possible.
The sticking point is that it has dragged on far too long and it appears they can just keep doing this for an indefinite period.
We have no communication from the parent company other than 'business needs mean no redundancies yet'
Our employer simply states 'The parent company have not told us to reduce the headcount yet'
Peoples lives have been on hold for 2 years now.
Plenty of people want to leave with the agreed redundancy package but they won't let them go with the package until the parent company indicates to reduce the headcount.
If I'm being cynical I'd say they are trying to force us to leave without the package by pissing us off as much as possible.
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