Contracting . Keep getting Permanent Job Offers

[Mr POD]

This is really starting to get boring.

I have only been contracting since July 2009, and both contracts I've had, have attempted to woo me longer term with a permanent job offer.

If they had made this sort of offer just after I'd been made redundant I would have been totally happy.

Now I'm trying to work out the best way of explaining that I can't commit to a permanent job.

because

1) I have motivational issues - I need the fear.
2) I have tax issues - I'd be living away from home. Now my expences are a business cost, but going permanent would mean costs met after tax.

Is this typical ?

[itsnotarace]

Bottom line is the company wanted someone full time and either couldn't fill the role due to lack of good candidates or they just took someone on for a good trial without wanting the commitment of a long term employee. It's much easier to ditch a temp contractor than make someone redundant.

Just ask for a contract extension instead, they are obviously pleased with your work.

[Simbu]

If you're good at what you do, then it makes perfect sense for a business to offer you a permie role. They will use the extra job security and any other benefits their regular employees get to justify paying you less than they would as a contractor. It saves them money and they get to retain an employee they feel does a good job.

[Mr POD]

itsnotarace said:

Bottom line is the company wanted someone full time and either couldn't fill the role due to lack of good candidates or they just took someone on for a good trial without wanting the commitment of a long term employee. It's much easier to ditch a temp contractor than make someone redundant.

Just ask for a contract extension instead, they are obviously pleased with your work.

This particular Aerospace company based in the East Midlands has a 'policy' which is designed to avoid IR35 and other employment law issues which means that after 2 years they are forced not to employ contractors for at least 3 months, and by Christmas my contract will have been extended twice to make it 2 years. The improvement projects I've been working on have uncovered all sorts of potential work which the business is prepared to fund, basically meaning that instead of 3 people (2 perms plus me) the guy in charge is trying to obtain funding for 5 people for next year, but dificult to find people with right skills.

[TooLateForAName]

This is your opportunity to move from being a BOS contractor to being a consultancy.

How can you help provide other services? How can you become a direct supplier as a business rather than a temp employee?


BOS - Bum on seat - is an employee on short term contract as opposed to being a business supplier.

[Mr POD]

Simbu said:

If you're good at what you do, then it makes perfect sense for a business to offer you a permie role. They will use the extra job security and any other benefits their regular employees get to justify paying you less than they would as a contractor. It saves them money and they get to retain an employee they feel does a good job.

Interestingly the way this business allocates it's overheads, makes the divisions pay more for permanent staff, than the contractors.

[worsy]

Mr POD said:

This particular Aerospace company based in the East Midlands has a 'policy' which is designed to avoid IR35 and other employment law issues which means that after 2 years they are forced not to employ contractors for at least 3 months, and by Christmas my contract will have been extended twice to make it 2 years. The improvement projects I've been working on have uncovered all sorts of potential work which the business is prepared to fund, basically meaning that instead of 3 people (2 perms plus me) the guy in charge is trying to obtain funding for 5 people for next year, but dificult to find people with right skills.

Which of course is all complete tosh. Do you think they cancel IBM/CSCS/"a n other" B2B contract every 2 years. You are employed by your ltd or your umbrella. Makes my p*** boil.

[Mr POD]

worsy said:

Mr POD said:

This particular Aerospace company based in the East Midlands has a 'policy' which is designed to avoid IR35 and other employment law issues which means that after 2 years they are forced not to employ contractors for at least 3 months, and by Christmas my contract will have been extended twice to make it 2 years. The improvement projects I've been working on have uncovered all sorts of potential work which the business is prepared to fund, basically meaning that instead of 3 people (2 perms plus me) the guy in charge is trying to obtain funding for 5 people for next year, but dificult to find people with right skills.

Which of course is all complete tosh. Do you think they cancel IBM/CSCS/"a n other" B2B contract every 2 years. You are employed by your ltd or your umbrella. Makes my p*** boil.

And there appears to be lots of exceptions to their policy from what I can see.

[RacerMDR]

It's happened to me every contract renewal for ten years. Every 3-6 months on average.

Tell them you choose to contract because you like the freedom to move between organisations, you want to travel and you want to work for a number of organisations to improve your skillset.

Assuming they aren't offering you a salary that makes it worthwhile.

Put money in the bank, have confidence to walk away if required.

It's a personal thing, but I'd only go permanent for something I really really wanted to do, such as a Director role with a big organisation.

Anything else and I'd feel like I was suffocating

[RacerMDR]

Edited for retard iPhone

Edited by RacerMDR on Tuesday 12th April 19:58

[Mr POD]

RacerMDR said:

Assuming they aren't offering you a salary that makes it worthwhile.

The discussion I had was for me to tell them the ammount I needed them to make an offer and they'd see if that were feasible.

The figure is alot more than I'd expect them to pay. Or would put me on a grade where the pressure would be quite frankly something I don't need.

But on the other hand It would give me a permanent base and I could buy a house close by and rent out 4 rooms to graduates and apprentices (The next fred west ?). Mind you If I stayed contracting I've got spare money in the business to do that anywhere really.

[RacerMDR]

It's the age old contractor problem! Think to yourself what you are getting for the pay cut? Is it worth it to you etc?

Why should they get you for cheaper?

Remember job security is a total illusion. You wouldn't believe how many rounds of redundancy I've sat through as a contract or temporary resource. Ironically because I'm easy to get rid of, no one ever gets rid

[SLCZ3]

Mr POD said:

This is really starting to get boring.

I have only been contracting since July 2009, and both contracts I've had, have attempted to woo me longer term with a permanent job offer.

If they had made this sort of offer just after I'd been made redundant I would have been totally happy.

Now I'm trying to work out the best way of explaining that I can't commit to a permanent job.

because

1) I have motivational issues - I need the fear.
2) I have tax issues - I'd be living away from home. Now my expences are a business cost, but going permanent would mean costs met after tax.

Is this typical ?

This is the typical occurance when there is a downturn/recession, the position will be permanent, with corresponding lower renumeration, and minimal expenses, until they decide the job is done, or have accuired enough info from you to carry on themselves, where upon there will be a "redundancy" and as that usually occurs before the legal minimum period of employement for redundancy payments, means they have been able to employ you to subsidise their expected outlay.

[Mr POD]

I just did a 10 minute search on Jobsite and there's alot out there, so why tie myself down.

[RacerMDR]

the key has to be to put the money away.........get yourself a year off contingency pot in the bank. Then frankly your options are much wider and you don't need to take anything that comes.

sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs - but once I had a year in the bank, I had so little pressure my career took off as I could make sensible decision and turn jobs down

[fido]

RacerMDR said:

the key has to be to put the money away.........get yourself a year off contingency pot in the bank. Then frankly your options are much wider and you don't need to take anything that comes.

sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs - but once I had a year in the bank, I had so little pressure my career took off as I could make sensible decision and turn jobs down

That's certainly the way i view things - keeping a years net salary as a float. Problem is i wonder if this is the best attitude to take. I'm currently looking to end my contract (3 months rolling) because i can't stand it here .. but my long term goal is to get back into a permie role i like doing .. and the best way to get into one is to stick around a bit longer. It's that ££££££s versus career thing.

[RacerMDR]

fido said:

RacerMDR said:

the key has to be to put the money away.........get yourself a year off contingency pot in the bank. Then frankly your options are much wider and you don't need to take anything that comes.

sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs - but once I had a year in the bank, I had so little pressure my career took off as I could make sensible decision and turn jobs down

That's certainly the way i view things - keeping a years net salary as a float. Problem is i wonder if this is the best attitude to take. I'm currently looking to end my contract (3 months rolling) because i can't stand it here .. but my long term goal is to get back into a permie role i like doing .. and the best way to get into one is to stick around a bit longer. It's that ££££££s versus career thing.

it is difficult - from my posts you can probably tell i'm pretty biased. I think it comes from having to fight constantly to stay a contractor.

I personally don't believe being a contractor has harmed my career at all. As a contractor i've risen several ranks and appear to continue to do so. I think it very much depends on your field. I'm a PTM now.......went contracting as a junior TM. I'm knocking on the door of a permie IT Director role.........which means I won't have to take a pay cut to go permanent.

It's all down to attitude in the role, and the roles that you can get.

I also waited to go contracting until I had a solid permie background - didn't jump too early.

Money isn't everything - training is important too. I try to pick roles that maybe don't pay as much as other roles, but can be strategic and that is often worth more than an extra 50/100 quid a day

[Mr POD]

RacerMDR said:

the key has to be to put the money away.........get yourself a year off contingency pot in the bank. Then frankly your options are much wider and you don't need to take anything that comes.

sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs - but once I had a year in the bank, I had so little pressure my career took off as I could make sensible decision and turn jobs down

Not teaching me to suck eggs, I was so paranoid when I started, every week I'd work out how many weeks I could survive, Now I do it monthly and I reckon I have enough money to be very comfortable for about 8 months or survive for 12 months.

[RacerMDR]

Great - nothing to worry about then! I did the same. I remember when I had a weeks worth if I lost the contract

[DJC]

Heh. Id been here 7 weeks precisely when my boss offered me the job on a permie basis. We are currently in the middle of contract negotiations and the deal Ive put on the table to them is extend the contract to the end of the year and then I will go permie. Ive even said Ill be happy to sign a pre-contract stating Ill take the permie role at the start of next year. My boss is very happy at that. Of course the salary figure I will go permie at yet hasnt been settled and my figure is 10-20% higher than their figure will be.