E39 M5 or E36 M3 Evolution?
Discussion
Hi all,
So - I'm considering getting either an E39 M5 or an E36 M3. Does anyone have real experience with either of these cars?
I don't use my car as a daily (I ride my bike to work), so things like fuel consumption aren't a major concern. At the moment I drive an E39 535i Sport and really like it. Will the build quality of the E39 make the E36 feel cheap? Will the M3 feel like a much more performance focused car than the M5?
Some may be wondering why I 'need' a car as big as the M5. Simple answer is, I don't. I just like the way they look, like the ease to work on them, like the fact that they're different to what most people of my age would go for. And also the extra room does occasionally come in use.
So - I'm considering getting either an E39 M5 or an E36 M3. Does anyone have real experience with either of these cars?
I don't use my car as a daily (I ride my bike to work), so things like fuel consumption aren't a major concern. At the moment I drive an E39 535i Sport and really like it. Will the build quality of the E39 make the E36 feel cheap? Will the M3 feel like a much more performance focused car than the M5?
Some may be wondering why I 'need' a car as big as the M5. Simple answer is, I don't. I just like the way they look, like the ease to work on them, like the fact that they're different to what most people of my age would go for. And also the extra room does occasionally come in use.
They are very different cars. Obviously the M3 doesn't have the weight of the M5 so it feels more nimble.
The M5 is more comfortable, has more space and a nicer cabin. It also feels more planted at speed.
The M3's engine has a lovely high pitched wail above 5k rpm, but it's hard not to love the torquey, growly deliverly of the M5.
I couldn't go back to the M3 after the M5, but then that's not the M3's fault. If you are already happy with your 5series, the M5 is the logical choice.
The M5 is more comfortable, has more space and a nicer cabin. It also feels more planted at speed.
The M3's engine has a lovely high pitched wail above 5k rpm, but it's hard not to love the torquey, growly deliverly of the M5.
I couldn't go back to the M3 after the M5, but then that's not the M3's fault. If you are already happy with your 5series, the M5 is the logical choice.
All good comments above, but in my view the M3 Evo has more of a "sports car" feel to it than the M5, it's more raw, but still civilised and a fantastic all-rounder. Definitely drive one before making your choice. I certainly wouldn't say the M5 is superior in every way - yes it's more modern, and a fantastic car, but, for example, I'd rather hustle an M3 down a twisty B-road or round the 'Ring than an M5.
ETA - M3 Evo is a pretty practical car too - even the coupe comfortably seats four, has split-fold rear seats etc, so given your criteria I'd just buy whichever one you like the most after you've driven them both.
ETA - M3 Evo is a pretty practical car too - even the coupe comfortably seats four, has split-fold rear seats etc, so given your criteria I'd just buy whichever one you like the most after you've driven them both.
Edited by _Neal_ on Sunday 5th June 22:44
I had an M3 Evo for 2 yrs & it was a a late S reg superb example, took it to the Ring & did a few trackdays & used it as a second car,excellent car. Sold it 2 yrs ago & bought a E39 M5, much prefer the M5 for the road,comfort,feels faster in a straight line,V8 noise ! M5 is more expensive to run. I have no desire to do a trackday in it as its not as good as the M3 through the corners & the standard brakes are fine for the road but not on track. Couldn't see myself going back to an M3 as i prefer bigger saloon cars for the road.
Simon.
Simon.
_Neal_ said:
All good comments above, but in my view the M3 Evo has more of a "sports car" feel to it than the M5, it's more raw, but still civilised and a fantastic all-rounder. Definitely drive one before making your choice. I certainly wouldn't say the M5 is superior in every way - yes it's more modern, and a fantastic car, but, for example, I'd rather hustle an M3 down a twisty B-road or round the 'Ring than an M5.
ETA - M3 Evo is a pretty practical car too - even the coupe comfortably seats four, has split-fold rear seats etc, so given your criteria I'd just buy whichever one you like the most after you've driven them both.
Good summary _Neal_.ETA - M3 Evo is a pretty practical car too - even the coupe comfortably seats four, has split-fold rear seats etc, so given your criteria I'd just buy whichever one you like the most after you've driven them both.
The E39 does feel a generation newer and is more civilised with a better interior; its a fantastic 'do it all' machine. I agree that the M5 is not "superior in all ways", the M5 changes direction well considering it weighs 1800+Kg but the EVO is over 300Kg less and this gives the M3 a very different character.
Edited by Crackie on Monday 6th June 08:34
just catching up again... have driven quite a few E36 M3s, and owned a couple E36s (325 and 328 mind).
The E36 is not good enough in standard form to cut it on track and needs a few upgrades, although yes - it feels more nimble because it is lighter. The M5 also needs the upgrades on track, so no advantage really.
As a road car in comparison to the M5, the E36 seriously lacks build quality and feels a couple rungs down the ladder... the M5 grunt, driveability in all real world circumstances, build quality, makes it a better machine in almost all measurable ways (ok, apart from 'nimbleness'). That you talk about liking your E39 535i for the reasons you state, I think you would be disappointed with the E36. The E36 feels really cheap and built to a price in comparison... as a road car.
The E36 is not good enough in standard form to cut it on track and needs a few upgrades, although yes - it feels more nimble because it is lighter. The M5 also needs the upgrades on track, so no advantage really.
As a road car in comparison to the M5, the E36 seriously lacks build quality and feels a couple rungs down the ladder... the M5 grunt, driveability in all real world circumstances, build quality, makes it a better machine in almost all measurable ways (ok, apart from 'nimbleness'). That you talk about liking your E39 535i for the reasons you state, I think you would be disappointed with the E36. The E36 feels really cheap and built to a price in comparison... as a road car.
I think you are being a bit hard on the old E36 regarding quality, but then it was 2002 when I owned mine. It felt good at the time.
Bare in mind the E39 has a fantastic interior and quality imo - I prefer it to many newer cars including the E60.
It also depends on the cars in question. Both are getting on and many are unloved/tired/abused. Get one that's been cared for (M3 or M5) and it'll be a lovely car.
I can't say which car is cheaper to run as I spent a lot on the M3 and I'm spending loads on the M5. Money pits the pair of them.
Bare in mind the E39 has a fantastic interior and quality imo - I prefer it to many newer cars including the E60.
It also depends on the cars in question. Both are getting on and many are unloved/tired/abused. Get one that's been cared for (M3 or M5) and it'll be a lovely car.
I can't say which car is cheaper to run as I spent a lot on the M3 and I'm spending loads on the M5. Money pits the pair of them.
spareparts said:
The E36 is not good enough in standard form to cut it on track and needs a few upgrades, although yes - it feels more nimble because it is lighter. The M5 also needs the upgrades on track, so no advantage really.
Far too harsh on the E36 I think - mine was fine for light-ish track work as standard (15-20 minute sessions at Brands) and for laps of the 'Ring at my own steady pace. It's not just nimble-ness I'm talking about, I actually found it to me a more "connected" driving experience, as the throttle response is cleaner IMO, (cable v. drive-by-wire perhaps to blame) you have to rev the M3 engine to get the most out of it, and lack of traction control makes you concentrate a bit harder. The M5 is substantially easier to drive quickly, but its size and weight lets it down when the going gets a bit tight and twisty. Yes, the M5 is far more modern-feeling, but that's to be expected when the E36 design is 5 years older than the E39. The E39 does seem more solidly-built though. Running-costs wise I'm finding them to be comparable so far (I replaced a 1998 M3 Evo, owned for 18 months, with a 2001 E39 M5) but the M3 is noticeably better on fuel. Also, you're looking at £8k-10 for a decent M5, £4-5k for a decent Evo, which is a chunky difference.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the M5 (it's an awesome machine) but the differences between the two for a keen driver just aren't that stark.
Neal,
If you're properly gunning it on track, both cars are no good without upgrades. The E36 is a better base car if you strip it out etc, but then we're not talking about hard core track/race use. For comparison, I ran up almost 30k+ miles in a very focussed/modded GT3, of which at least 20k+ miles were on tracks from Oulton to Hockenheim. For hardcore track use: both the E36 M3 and E39 M5 in stockish form are absolutely useless in comparison.
For occasional fun track use, the M5 is a hooligan: proper old school big torque, wheel spinning, oversteer heaven that can be controlled at will on any track. Yes, the E36 is keener to rev (inline 6 vs V8 does) but the E36 does not deliver the same 'fun' in comparison. (we're not talking lap times here)
All that being said, however, in reading the OPs comments about fuel/price/etc, I don't think track use is what he is specifically looking for. From an ownership proposition point of view, the E36 is miles behind the E39 imho as things like build quality/attention to driver details/etc play a high priority. Give them each great motors (as they both do) for the power/torque/speed, and the E39 wins hands down.
I loved the E36 when it was the limit of my affordability, and seriously considered an M3 Evo when I considered the M5 (went for the test drive etc). But after driving the M5, there really was no comparison. To the OP: both are great cars, and it probably makes sense to take a test drive in both and see what floats the boat. HTH.
If you're properly gunning it on track, both cars are no good without upgrades. The E36 is a better base car if you strip it out etc, but then we're not talking about hard core track/race use. For comparison, I ran up almost 30k+ miles in a very focussed/modded GT3, of which at least 20k+ miles were on tracks from Oulton to Hockenheim. For hardcore track use: both the E36 M3 and E39 M5 in stockish form are absolutely useless in comparison.
For occasional fun track use, the M5 is a hooligan: proper old school big torque, wheel spinning, oversteer heaven that can be controlled at will on any track. Yes, the E36 is keener to rev (inline 6 vs V8 does) but the E36 does not deliver the same 'fun' in comparison. (we're not talking lap times here)
All that being said, however, in reading the OPs comments about fuel/price/etc, I don't think track use is what he is specifically looking for. From an ownership proposition point of view, the E36 is miles behind the E39 imho as things like build quality/attention to driver details/etc play a high priority. Give them each great motors (as they both do) for the power/torque/speed, and the E39 wins hands down.
I loved the E36 when it was the limit of my affordability, and seriously considered an M3 Evo when I considered the M5 (went for the test drive etc). But after driving the M5, there really was no comparison. To the OP: both are great cars, and it probably makes sense to take a test drive in both and see what floats the boat. HTH.
Edited by spareparts on Monday 6th June 14:39
spareparts said:
Neal,
If you're properly gunning it on track, both cars are no good without upgrades.
I completely agree with this, and as you say, clearly hardcore track use is not what the OP is after. However, my view is that it's not a "hands down" M5 victory, it's a personal thing. OP, you've got some fun test drives to do - keep us informed If you're properly gunning it on track, both cars are no good without upgrades.
ETA - @spareparts, you coming along to the M5 dyno day at Evolve on Saturday? Perhaps we can settle this with a fight*
- friendly discussion over tea and cake.
Edited by _Neal_ on Monday 6th June 15:33
_Neal_ said:
I completely agree with this, and as you say, clearly hardcore track use is not what the OP is after. However, my view is that it's not a "hands down" M5 victory, it's a personal thing. OP, you've got some fun test drives to do - keep us informed
ETA - @spareparts, you coming along to the M5 dyno day at Evolve on Saturday? Perhaps we can settle this with a fight*
Hey, did someone mention cake? ETA - @spareparts, you coming along to the M5 dyno day at Evolve on Saturday? Perhaps we can settle this with a fight*
- friendly discussion over tea and cake.
Totally forgot about this, am putting it in the diary, hope to make it there!
Both are very different cars and both are superb in their own right. I am lucky enough to currently own both but you need to decide what you want from the car.
The M3 is better suited to the track and the M5 is more of a cruiser but it's horses for courses.
The Evolve meet is this Saturday in Luton where there is will be lots of M5 in attendance, mine in included.
Evolve / Motorsport Ventures Ltd
Unit 8 - Business Hive
Luton Enterprise Park
Sundon Park Road
Luton
Bedfordshire
LU3 3GU
The M3 is better suited to the track and the M5 is more of a cruiser but it's horses for courses.
The Evolve meet is this Saturday in Luton where there is will be lots of M5 in attendance, mine in included.
Evolve / Motorsport Ventures Ltd
Unit 8 - Business Hive
Luton Enterprise Park
Sundon Park Road
Luton
Bedfordshire
LU3 3GU
M5 Russ said:
Both are very different cars and both are superb in their own right. I am lucky enough to currently own both but you need to decide what you want from the car.
The M3 is better suited to the track and the M5 is more of a cruiser but it's horses for courses.
The Evolve meet is this Saturday in Luton where there is will be lots of M5 in attendance, mine in included.
Evolve / Motorsport Ventures Ltd
Unit 8 - Business Hive
Luton Enterprise Park
Sundon Park Road
Luton
Bedfordshire
LU3 3GU
Thanks!The M3 is better suited to the track and the M5 is more of a cruiser but it's horses for courses.
The Evolve meet is this Saturday in Luton where there is will be lots of M5 in attendance, mine in included.
Evolve / Motorsport Ventures Ltd
Unit 8 - Business Hive
Luton Enterprise Park
Sundon Park Road
Luton
Bedfordshire
LU3 3GU
I've driven many of both and am currently lucky enough to own a mint M3 Evo. They are both quite different cars. So here's what I think you should do; find the mintest cars you can, firstly drive the M5. You'll be better set to notice the differences to your E39. Next drive an M3 Evo. Give both a good long drive over all types of road. Then lastly drive an E46 M3 manual. I think you'll find it's the missing link. Goodluck!
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