e39 m5 turbo install
Discussion
will watch with intrest 
Wow didnt realise there would be so much interest.
Ok well here we go!
To be able to turbocharge any vehicle you first need to establish its faults and failings from the factory.
With the s62 engine mounted into the e39 shell there are 3 major failings.
1. There physically isnt room to mount a turbo or turbos in a the traditional manner, ie in the engine bay, when the s62 is in the 850csi then you have room in the front to mount a turbo as shown in a youtube video in what looks like somewhere in eastean europe.
2. The standard clutch setup on the s62 is substandard for a stock car, never mind one with performance in mind. It shares the 240mm size with vehicles much smaller and less powerful and is a time bomb waiting to happen, many standard cars have been able to kill a stock clutch(mine included)
3. When the guys at BMW decided they needed an upgrade from the 540i they copied the casting of the iron block from the 540i(m62) and made one in aluminum, you can only assume to save weight, they then wanted more capacity so over bored and stroked the block to take it from 4.4ltr to 4.9ltr, meaning that the metal between the pistons was very thin.....this is fine in a N/A application, but for forced induction, it can mean spliting the block!
So before deciding to take this challenge on I sat and thought about how i could overcome these problems.
1. My googling took me across the pond to the land of guns and britney spears to see how those guys turbocharge there v8s, and there it was, staring me in the face.......rear mount turbos, this means physically running the turbo or turbos in the rear of the vehicle.
Now im sure i hear a few cries of blastphemy and 'OMG the lag!!' but when specced correctly they are very effective.
I spent more time doing research into how best to achieve my goals, taking into concideration the lower exhaust gas pressure hitting my turbine wheel vs restriction in the system which effects total power output.
I have drawn a little picture so you guys can see the design, i can then explain how it all works so we are reading from the same hymm book.
the picture is a little big but helps everyone to see it.
for reference:
The gold drawing is the original exhaust system which is 2.5" per side.
As you can see ive left my CATS in the system, makes it emmisions friendly come MOT time.
the 2x2.5" pipes join together to become a single 3"(righthand side of picture) which runs up past the 60mm wastegate to the turbocharger where one of the original backboxes used to be(ill also remove the other backbox), then there will be a 4" pipe out of the back of the turbo to exit out of the standard position in the bumper.
Since this design i have changed the wastegate position so that it will be just where the 2x2.5" and the 3" meet, this will mean that when the boost level is reached the wastegate will open and allow excess pressure out of the system, ie the single 3" pipe will not become a restriction to the engines breathing at high rpm.
Here is the wastegate, its not a real tial, just a copy as im tight with money
the little green square is the oil scavenge pump, you can use hte engines oil pressure to force oil to the rear of the car easily enough, but because theres not pressure after the turbo the oil cannot return, the scavenge pump does as its name suggests and sucks up the oil and sends it back to the engine, which ill plum into one of the rocker covers.
Since the outlet of the compressor side(cool) of turbo is 2.5" ill continue the 2.5" boost pipe back to the engine, using the route of the old exhaust(left side) to give maximum ground clearance, this will then join up to the intercooler, then 3" pipe from intercooler to engine.
Here is a picture of the underside so you can grasp my picture better
Intercooler setup, nice and simple, notice how it doesnt block all of the radiator like alot of setups so shouldnt affect water temps to much.
2. This was one of the things that took the longest research, theres alot of clutches out there but trying to find the actual best one was the hard part.
Alot of clutches claim to hold big power but fail quite easily.
Eventually I spent a bit of time watching youtube videos from Horsepower freaks(HPFChris) and they have made over 1000whp with there e46 m3s running a feramic clutch......feramic is a combination of ferrous iron and ceramic, hence the name. It gives great streetability but is known to hold big power.
Now the e39 m5 has a very similar setup to the e46 so much that with a bit of work you can exchange components so since HPF wanted $1500 for a stage 1 kit(700whp) I decided to track down the company that supplies them the clutches.
The company is called South Bend Clutches and i chose there stage 5 kit(1000whp) best bit is, the cost was only $1022 shipped to my door, cutting the middle man saved me nearly $500
Im expecting it to be arriving in the next couple of days(usps says its left the USA)
This should solve all my clutch issues as they have been taken to 1100whp and 900ftlbs and held on ok.
3. To start with we will make an assumption there will be no knock/detonation when it is tuned, knock can easily split the block since its very thin
This picture shows how thin im talking, this wasnt with much boost, not sure if its carbon build up or a bit of detonation on the pistons
So even with forged low compression pistons there is a limit to how much power you can make, the way to get around it is to have steel sleeves inserted into the block, typically darton one, though i might use the same company locally who made my custom steel sleeves from my r5 turbo to save money and have total control over quality/fitment.
With this in mind running stock engine(11:1comp) ill limit the engine to no more than 12psi of boost with water/meth injection and 10psi with out water.
In terms of progress
Ordered my turbocharger, wastegate, scavenge pump, intercooler, turbine flange.
Turbo is a 76mm compressor, i chose a small 0.81 a/r turbine housing to help with spool
using a shurflow transmission oil pump
3" thick ebay intercooler, silcone pipe and t4 turbine flange
Havent ordered the injectors(bosch EV14 750cc) yet as going to wait till we have the vehicle running and can takr it to the place to be tuned where they can fit them.
Also fuel pump will be a bosch 044, and im in talks with a company who should be able to make a bracket so its easy to fit in my stock fuel tank.
We have already have the stainless pipes for the exhaust and intercooler pipes, had the vehicle in the air so we know how much pipe we need(also how i knew how to draw my picture above)
We are predicting 550whp with 8psi of boost and 650whp with 12psi of boost, but wont know until its tuned, the guy tuning it is Sal from Evolve who has said he will be happy to do it.
Sorry theres not more pictures but until all my bits get here there isnt much more i can do.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask
Ok well here we go!
To be able to turbocharge any vehicle you first need to establish its faults and failings from the factory.
With the s62 engine mounted into the e39 shell there are 3 major failings.
1. There physically isnt room to mount a turbo or turbos in a the traditional manner, ie in the engine bay, when the s62 is in the 850csi then you have room in the front to mount a turbo as shown in a youtube video in what looks like somewhere in eastean europe.
2. The standard clutch setup on the s62 is substandard for a stock car, never mind one with performance in mind. It shares the 240mm size with vehicles much smaller and less powerful and is a time bomb waiting to happen, many standard cars have been able to kill a stock clutch(mine included)
3. When the guys at BMW decided they needed an upgrade from the 540i they copied the casting of the iron block from the 540i(m62) and made one in aluminum, you can only assume to save weight, they then wanted more capacity so over bored and stroked the block to take it from 4.4ltr to 4.9ltr, meaning that the metal between the pistons was very thin.....this is fine in a N/A application, but for forced induction, it can mean spliting the block!
So before deciding to take this challenge on I sat and thought about how i could overcome these problems.
1. My googling took me across the pond to the land of guns and britney spears to see how those guys turbocharge there v8s, and there it was, staring me in the face.......rear mount turbos, this means physically running the turbo or turbos in the rear of the vehicle.
Now im sure i hear a few cries of blastphemy and 'OMG the lag!!' but when specced correctly they are very effective.
I spent more time doing research into how best to achieve my goals, taking into concideration the lower exhaust gas pressure hitting my turbine wheel vs restriction in the system which effects total power output.
I have drawn a little picture so you guys can see the design, i can then explain how it all works so we are reading from the same hymm book.
the picture is a little big but helps everyone to see it.
for reference:
The gold drawing is the original exhaust system which is 2.5" per side.
As you can see ive left my CATS in the system, makes it emmisions friendly come MOT time.
the 2x2.5" pipes join together to become a single 3"(righthand side of picture) which runs up past the 60mm wastegate to the turbocharger where one of the original backboxes used to be(ill also remove the other backbox), then there will be a 4" pipe out of the back of the turbo to exit out of the standard position in the bumper.
Since this design i have changed the wastegate position so that it will be just where the 2x2.5" and the 3" meet, this will mean that when the boost level is reached the wastegate will open and allow excess pressure out of the system, ie the single 3" pipe will not become a restriction to the engines breathing at high rpm.
Here is the wastegate, its not a real tial, just a copy as im tight with money
the little green square is the oil scavenge pump, you can use hte engines oil pressure to force oil to the rear of the car easily enough, but because theres not pressure after the turbo the oil cannot return, the scavenge pump does as its name suggests and sucks up the oil and sends it back to the engine, which ill plum into one of the rocker covers.
Since the outlet of the compressor side(cool) of turbo is 2.5" ill continue the 2.5" boost pipe back to the engine, using the route of the old exhaust(left side) to give maximum ground clearance, this will then join up to the intercooler, then 3" pipe from intercooler to engine.
Here is a picture of the underside so you can grasp my picture better
Intercooler setup, nice and simple, notice how it doesnt block all of the radiator like alot of setups so shouldnt affect water temps to much.
2. This was one of the things that took the longest research, theres alot of clutches out there but trying to find the actual best one was the hard part.
Alot of clutches claim to hold big power but fail quite easily.
Eventually I spent a bit of time watching youtube videos from Horsepower freaks(HPFChris) and they have made over 1000whp with there e46 m3s running a feramic clutch......feramic is a combination of ferrous iron and ceramic, hence the name. It gives great streetability but is known to hold big power.
Now the e39 m5 has a very similar setup to the e46 so much that with a bit of work you can exchange components so since HPF wanted $1500 for a stage 1 kit(700whp) I decided to track down the company that supplies them the clutches.
The company is called South Bend Clutches and i chose there stage 5 kit(1000whp) best bit is, the cost was only $1022 shipped to my door, cutting the middle man saved me nearly $500
Im expecting it to be arriving in the next couple of days(usps says its left the USA)This should solve all my clutch issues as they have been taken to 1100whp and 900ftlbs and held on ok.
3. To start with we will make an assumption there will be no knock/detonation when it is tuned, knock can easily split the block since its very thin
This picture shows how thin im talking, this wasnt with much boost, not sure if its carbon build up or a bit of detonation on the pistons
So even with forged low compression pistons there is a limit to how much power you can make, the way to get around it is to have steel sleeves inserted into the block, typically darton one, though i might use the same company locally who made my custom steel sleeves from my r5 turbo to save money and have total control over quality/fitment.
With this in mind running stock engine(11:1comp) ill limit the engine to no more than 12psi of boost with water/meth injection and 10psi with out water.
In terms of progress
Ordered my turbocharger, wastegate, scavenge pump, intercooler, turbine flange.
Turbo is a 76mm compressor, i chose a small 0.81 a/r turbine housing to help with spool
using a shurflow transmission oil pump
3" thick ebay intercooler, silcone pipe and t4 turbine flange
Havent ordered the injectors(bosch EV14 750cc) yet as going to wait till we have the vehicle running and can takr it to the place to be tuned where they can fit them.
Also fuel pump will be a bosch 044, and im in talks with a company who should be able to make a bracket so its easy to fit in my stock fuel tank.
We have already have the stainless pipes for the exhaust and intercooler pipes, had the vehicle in the air so we know how much pipe we need(also how i knew how to draw my picture above)
We are predicting 550whp with 8psi of boost and 650whp with 12psi of boost, but wont know until its tuned, the guy tuning it is Sal from Evolve who has said he will be happy to do it.
Sorry theres not more pictures but until all my bits get here there isnt much more i can do.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask
already spoke to them, they deal with a company called STS systems in the US.
Got a quote for parts from STS through them, complete rip off, wanted £2000 just for a journel bearing turbo.
Basically all there prices was way to much.
Id imagine i can build the full kit for the price of the turbo from them
Got a quote for parts from STS through them, complete rip off, wanted £2000 just for a journel bearing turbo.
Basically all there prices was way to much.
Id imagine i can build the full kit for the price of the turbo from them
Having done a similar thing to my V6 (over 600bhp single turbo) Id recomend you use 2 044 pumps... a single one will be on its limit when you get on boost, you usually set the fuel regulator to raise pressure with boost and thus demand on the pump is different to an NA setup were a single 044 can do 650bhp safely.
Other than that it all looks more than doable... when I designed my conversion everyone assumes the large single turbo would be laggy as hell... mine isnt and was actually LESS laggy than the old twin turbo setup my car ran previously.
looking forward to seeing the progress and end results
Other than that it all looks more than doable... when I designed my conversion everyone assumes the large single turbo would be laggy as hell... mine isnt and was actually LESS laggy than the old twin turbo setup my car ran previously.
looking forward to seeing the progress and end results
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