E46 M3 - Which Coilovers?????

[MrAMS101]

Hi Chaps,

I thought i'd pop a post here to see which coilovers are worth going for.

I will be using the car mainly on the road and will do between rough 4-5 trackdays per year. My road driving is limited, and i do like to enjoy the car, with spirited driving.

I have seen a few of the cheaper kits being D2/HSDs being advertised for tempting money. Anyone using these

I think i would rather go for H&R/KW coilovers, anyone using these or similar on their M cars?


All advice from Coilover owner is welcome.

thnaks in advance

[Paul_M3]

I had HSD coilovers on my old M3, and thought that they were very good value for money.

I'd read that they were more road compliant than the KW type stuff, and found them to be quite acceptable on the road.

With the dampers turned up to fully hard, they were very good on track as well.

At no point during my use of them did I wish I'd spent more money on something else.
If the car was more track oriented then something else with more adjustment may be worth the money.

[MrAMS101]

Hi Paul,

well thats a bit of a suprise, i've also heard some good things about them but have my reservations, due to price really.......

Just that i think i would feel more comfortable with the bigger names, but less comfortable with the bigger price tags......


So were the HSD reliable?
Any Issues with them?
Durable?
How was body roll/pitch when cornering or braking heavily??

thanks

[Paul_M3]

MrAMS101 said:

Hi Paul,

well thats a bit of a suprise, i've also heard some good things about them but have my reservations, due to price really.......

Just that i think i would feel more comfortable with the bigger names, but less comfortable with the bigger price tags......


So were the HSD reliable?
Any Issues with them?
Durable?
How was body roll/pitch when cornering or braking heavily??

thanks

I had no issues with the reliability of the actual coilovers. I did have a problem with the adjustable drop-links wearing out quickly, but I contacted HSD and they sent me their new upgraded version free of charge.

They come with adjustable top mounts as part of the price too, so you can dial in a decent amount of camber. A can of silicone lubricant is included and a regular spray of the bits keeps everything nice.

I thought roll and pitch was pretty well controlled, although obviously they aren't race car firm.

Here's a video of the car at Brands Hatch, and whilst it's a bit hard to tell from the video, you can tell the roll and pitch is not excessive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTLlsM2o8M

And a picture of the roll from outside:



I actually had them recommended to me by a bloke called Matt Seldon, who races an e46 GTR V8 ( http://www.mymotiv.com/photo/matt-seldon-bmw-e46-m... ) in the various championships. He also had an e46 M3 as normal car for everyday/trackdays and he was really impressed with the HSD's. If it wasn't for his recommendation I'd probably have also saved up more money and gone for KW V3's or something similar.

[MrAMS101]

Thanks Paul,

thats really really helpful, and they seem to be a very likely candidate now thanks to you. Also nice to have there approval from a Racer.

They are considerably cheaper @ £775 than the competition which are £1200 plus, and V3s are roughly £1600.

I know you get what you pay for, and these may not quite have the quality of the top brands, but boy do they look very tempting now having spoken to you.

You lap looked very tidy and uneventful, which is clearly a good thing on track, and you do have a smoth driving style which helps.

Any way i look at it, any coilover would be better than my current suspension (OEM Shocks/Eibach Springs) See pic below @ Bedford AutoDrome West Circuit

Edited by MrAMS101 on Tuesday 8th December 12:26

[Paul_M3]

My laps aren't always that smooth and tidy, believe me!

Here's one from Snetterton that was FAR from tidy. Although in my defence, my tyres were shot. In fact, the front left burst later in the day whilst going down the pit straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmVFK3EmQ3s

Also, have you considered fitting uprated anti-roll bars as well?

I've had them on both my e36 and e46 M3's and they make a nice difference in the corners and when changing direction for relatively little money. (and don't really affect ride comfort)

[lovechild]

There's a group buy on M3 Cutters for the HSDs, although seeing as your remap thread refers to the same website, I assume you already know this. In case you had missed it, it brings the price down to £660. Admittedly, I joined to take advantage of the offer and am not a long standing member at all.

Whilst researching the brand, the phrase used most to describe the HSDs seems to be 'that they're good for the money' which put me off, as I wanted to know whether they were good or not(irrespective of cost), although I couldn't really find anything too negative about them.

I spoke to a reputable BMW indy who I have been using for my recently acquired M3. He has fitted some and knows of a couple of people who have them and he said that they appear good quality and has had good reports from the people who have them. The quality isn't on par with KW/Bilstein, but that's pretty obvious really.

If the HSDs were around £1000, I would pay the extra and get KW3 or AST sportline. Seeing as they're £660(£685 for E36) I've ordered a set and they should be with me Monday. Hopefully it's a decision I won't come to rue.

Anyway, for the money they seem like decent coilovers

[shim]

With dampers (most of these are not coilover rears) you basically get what you pay for. Cheap D2, HSD etc will be ok on road for a whole but are not suited track. Paul above admits to turning them up to full hard for track which obviously isn't where they should be as you have no adjustment left. Even Bilstien e46 are like this.

I personally would stick to KW Clubsport, IntraxIK2, Nitron. Maybe ASD.

All fully track compliant, valves recently for M3 within reason, with right springs absolutely ok for road use, and most importantly fully serviceable and rebuildable.

[AndrewO]

KW V3 on mine. Whats good for the track isn't so good for everyday driving.

Once you sort the suspension, next thing is brakes, then its tyres, then a harness/seat....

http://www.fresh-orange.co.uk/picpopup.asp?imageid...

[MrAMS101]

Sorry for my delayed response chaps.

Paul how long did you have the HSD kit for? And what your experience with other coilovers you may have had when comparing them to HSD?


Lovechild, thanks for your post, and i recognise your username lol, from the cutters forum. I am aware of the HSD group buy just want some last minute confirmation that i should go for the HSD really.

[MrAMS101]

Also Paul, i have considered the anti-roll bars, they will be next on my list after i get the suspension sorted.


And i agree Lovechild that the price is the real appealing bit with the HSD and general positive feedback from thos who have fitted them.


Shim thanks for your response and i completely agree
"I personally would stick to KW Clubsport, IntraxIK2, Nitron. Maybe ASD & All fully track compliant, valves recently for M3 within reason, with right springs absolutely ok for road use, and most importantly fully serviceable and rebuildable."
- However, i as i will do max 4-5 trackdays per annum and 7-8,000 miles on the road, i am wondering whether or not its worth spending £1000 + extra over the HSD prices, albeit for superior quality.# And another appealing thing with the likes of KWs etc are that they are rebuildably as you mentioned.



AndrewO Thanks for your reply also, So how are the V3s on road softest setting?
And that is my concern, will it be too harsh on road. Nice looking car too, Orange and black/carbon theme looks fab.


I'm still in two minds, and have just been looking at the Bilstein B12 kit, which are fixed rate shorter dampers with lowering springs????

Really feeling quite confused now actually....

[AndrewO]

Suspension is hard, but difficult to compare as mines got 30 tyre profile and bucket seats.

[MrAMS101]

Yes i'm sure its a completelydifferent animal to my prodominantly road car.

How do you find the range of adjustability with the V3s, and who do you use for geometry setup?

[AndrewO]

I've used Xsport in Basingstoke in the past, chatted to JTech Motorsport on one trackday recently and found they are only 2mins away from me so I'll be popping it over there next.

Xsport said to set it up 3/4 on the front and 1/2 on the back and I haven't changed it since. They had a Race CSL setup in a similar way.

[lovechild]

My research has led me to believe that Wheels in Motion are a safe bet with regards to the set up, although suggestions are obviously welcome. The last time I had coilovers fitted, it was by Powerstation and they supplied, fitted and set it all up, but they're miles away(I'm in Kent). If I had gone down the AST route I would have gone to them again.

My estimates of costs are:
Coilovers - Whatever you want to spend.
Top mounts - £90
Bushes/links/arms etc - £200
Installation - £300
Geometry - £100
ARBs - £300
X brace - £70

I'm not too sure about the prices, but I don't think they're too far out. So that's over £1000, without the cost of the coilovers. If the car was worth more and if I was going to(attempt)to exploit it fully, then I'd be more inclined to spend the extra. As it stands, the suspension is well past it's best so I'm hoping that even with the cheaper coilovers, it will still be a vast improvement. In these times of austerity, for me, it's the right choice and if I don't like them, they'll have to stay until I'm in a position to swap them out.

For me it wasn't confusing. The European brands are better and I've always advocated buying as good as you can afford. A couple of years ago I would have gone for PSS9 Clubsports.

If you've not decided by the time the group buy runs out and if mine are fitted, then I'd be happy to take you for a blast to help you decide.

[MrAMS101]

Thanks again chaps i'll have to consider these for when i get my geometry set-up.

And you make a fair point Lovechild, i too suspect my current suspension to be well past its best. And as my personal finances could be better, the HSD route may well be a better option for me, assuming that they will fullfil my requirements.

Unless anyone is selling or knows of someone selling a used coilover kit for a fair price????
(Such as KW/Bilstein/AST/Nitron etc etc)

[KlausH79]

Hi there
I myself am looking a lot a the HSD setup for my E46. However where did you land on this? Did you go with the HSD's or no?

[MrAMS101]

Hi, god I forgot about this post.

Well, I've been running KW Variant 3 Coilies and quite frankly they are excellent!

The car is something else with these fitted and I have used the car on track and road for many thousands of miles now, and they still impress me to this day.

Setup wise, I have a fast road setup which to be honest is a very nice compromise for both track/road but can see where I would make changes especially for track use. But as I'm not using this car for a full on Trackday calendar at the moment I'm reluctant to start tweaking my setup, but the main point being that I can change many parameters as and when I wish to do so, as the KW V3's allow for Height / Damping / Rebound adjustments.

HSD are also very good and have been in a few cars with these fitted, so can confirm they do the job. Ad at their price you are buying New with Warranty which is a nice reassurance.

Also worth considering are D2 / BC at the £7-800 price range.

Then onto the bigger brands like Nitron / Intrax / Gaz / Moton and of course KW.

The crux is, any of these will do a great job, and it will be unlikely that most, me included, can out drive any of their Equiptment.

Let me know how it goes.

[shim]

I think KWV3 re ok but KW Clubsport are probably the better compromise if you want a compliant, well set up adjustable damper that requires little maintenace but is capable of being rebuilt (unlike some of the cheapos)

Do think about sprng rate though!