E61 Wind Noise from Roof
Discussion
The panoramic sunroof seal perishes and BMW brought out another that is more hard wearing and quieter.
Removing the old one is easy, put the sun roof on tilt and you have access to the join which is at the rear of the roof. Unpick it and pull it all upwards. Most of the old adhesive came away easily if you pull it straight up.
Then, close the sunroof and without removing the sticky back to the seal, push it into place and push it flush with the roof. When youre happy, peel back the sticky back and it will remain in place.
My seal was 10 inches too long so had to be carefully cut to length. Weird why this would be.
I did see if it would all compress around but it just created kinks and didnt fit. I was mindful that door seals must never be cut and they are always the correct length but there we are.
Using the pano sunroof at this point now creats the 'anti trap alarm' that then stops all use of it and just freezes it in the tilt position giving you an error message on the dash.
That was a touch scary but its because the new seal is a lot closer fit and the the roof doesnt recognise this.
Then, with the ignition on hold the 'tilt' option for about 15 seconds, it will then go through a series of movements and then close. Keep your finger depressed throughout this. This is the sunroof reset.
It's part number 54 10 7 199 533 and about £22.
Removing the old one is easy, put the sun roof on tilt and you have access to the join which is at the rear of the roof. Unpick it and pull it all upwards. Most of the old adhesive came away easily if you pull it straight up.
Then, close the sunroof and without removing the sticky back to the seal, push it into place and push it flush with the roof. When youre happy, peel back the sticky back and it will remain in place.
My seal was 10 inches too long so had to be carefully cut to length. Weird why this would be.
I did see if it would all compress around but it just created kinks and didnt fit. I was mindful that door seals must never be cut and they are always the correct length but there we are.
Using the pano sunroof at this point now creats the 'anti trap alarm' that then stops all use of it and just freezes it in the tilt position giving you an error message on the dash.
That was a touch scary but its because the new seal is a lot closer fit and the the roof doesnt recognise this.
Then, with the ignition on hold the 'tilt' option for about 15 seconds, it will then go through a series of movements and then close. Keep your finger depressed throughout this. This is the sunroof reset.
It's part number 54 10 7 199 533 and about £22.
ecain63 said:
So long as its water tight...... thats what matters.
But it's not water tight is it ? That's why it has those drain hoses that then get blocked :-)I've avoided cars with sunroofs for many years, because of noise and water. But I do like the roof on the E61, apart from the massive leak I had, and the noise.
@ Neil D. - sounds like something I should consider trying, I think I'll order the part and then wait for a dry day. From the weather forecasts I've seen BMW will have time to tap a few trees for the rubber, spin up the factory, fail several dozen batches for quality checks, ship the part via North Carolina, and I'll still have it before I'm ready to use it.
omniflow said:
ecain63 said:
So long as its water tight...... thats what matters.
But it's not water tight is it ? That's why it has those drain hoses that then get blocked :-)I've avoided cars with sunroofs for many years, because of noise and water. But I do like the roof on the E61, apart from the massive leak I had, and the noise.
@ Neil D. - sounds like something I should consider trying, I think I'll order the part and then wait for a dry day. From the weather forecasts I've seen BMW will have time to tap a few trees for the rubber, spin up the factory, fail several dozen batches for quality checks, ship the part via North Carolina, and I'll still have it before I'm ready to use it.
Get an exhaust fitted and you'll have your windows open 90% of the time anyway. Lol
My old one was very noisy, I used to have the blind closed at all times. The new one made it quieter to the point there was almost no difference.
The seal is effectively a rubber tube, the thing slowly compresses so is no longer making a solid contact with the glass. It doesn't really perish - more deformes.
...and yes, it isn't water tight, it just keeps the majority of water out.
The seal is effectively a rubber tube, the thing slowly compresses so is no longer making a solid contact with the glass. It doesn't really perish - more deformes.
...and yes, it isn't water tight, it just keeps the majority of water out.
Well, that's the best £22 I've spent in a long while.
It probably takes about 1 hour to fit, most of that is removing all the glue from the old one. Massive difference in wind noise.
An old school wooden ruler was perfect for removing the old glue - along with some tar remover.
The difference is huge.
It probably takes about 1 hour to fit, most of that is removing all the glue from the old one. Massive difference in wind noise.
An old school wooden ruler was perfect for removing the old glue - along with some tar remover.
The difference is huge.
Neil.D said:
My seal was 10 inches too long so had to be carefully cut to length. Weird why this would be.
I did see if it would all compress around but it just created kinks and didnt fit. I was mindful that door seals must never be cut and they are always the correct length but there we are.
That seal is used on a number of different models; I guess it's trimmed to fit the application.I did see if it would all compress around but it just created kinks and didnt fit. I was mindful that door seals must never be cut and they are always the correct length but there we are.
Thanks for sharing the info - will try this as well. Dealer claimed ignorance of any noise or service bulletin and refused to test drive the car above 70mph. So if a £20 DIY sorts it I'll be happy. The E61 M5 sunroof has much more wind noise than my E61 535d had but to be fair the 535d had a couple of repairs to the sunroof including a complete new mechanism (££££) under warranty so it might well have had a newer seal.
I've recently ordered the replacement E61 sunroof seal (54107199533), but am wondering whether anyone has also replaced the seal between the main and rear glass panels of the roof? This has a similar type of seal although having checked, the main seal isn't 'over-long' by enough to also replace this 'inter-panel' section of seal suggesting there is a separate replacement seal for this...but what's the part number? Maybe it needs a trip to the main dealer?
Also, I note at: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=NJ72-... it mentions for the main perimeter seal:
Important! Observe PuMA procedure AG20315810-01
03 Surrounding seal 54107199533
Anyone any idea what "PuMA procedure AG20315810-01" is, other than the sunroof reset?
Also, I note at: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=NJ72-... it mentions for the main perimeter seal:
Important! Observe PuMA procedure AG20315810-01
03 Surrounding seal 54107199533
Anyone any idea what "PuMA procedure AG20315810-01" is, other than the sunroof reset?
PUMA AG20315810-01:
"Vehicles affected
E53 E60 E61 E65 E66
E70 E71 E83 E91
Due to the high number of complaints about leaks or wind noise on vehicles with a sunroof or panoramic roof, the seal around the roof flange has been modified. In the event of a complaint, vehicles with no foam rubber seal must have the new foam rubber seal fitted. New part number for sunroof (SHD): 54 10 7 245 551; for panoramic roof (PaDa): 54 10 7 199 533. To ensure that the seal functions to its optimum over the service life of the vehicle, the geometry of the seal has been optimised, with a different material now being used.
The result of these modifications is that the coding data for the sunroof or panoramic roof anti-trap mechanism MUST also be adjusted and updated when changing a seal. The reason for this adjustment is an altered force path in the closing mode when the new seal has been fitted. The altered closing forces are stored in the vehicle's updated I levels, as appropriate to the vehicle projects.
E60/E61: The measure is relevant for coding on vehicles up to the introduction into series production of I level 08-09-530. On vehicles with I level 08-09-530 as standard, no coding is necessary. The coding data is incorporated with ISTA/P P2.31.2 or PROGMAN V31.2."
"Vehicles affected
E53 E60 E61 E65 E66
E70 E71 E83 E91
Due to the high number of complaints about leaks or wind noise on vehicles with a sunroof or panoramic roof, the seal around the roof flange has been modified. In the event of a complaint, vehicles with no foam rubber seal must have the new foam rubber seal fitted. New part number for sunroof (SHD): 54 10 7 245 551; for panoramic roof (PaDa): 54 10 7 199 533. To ensure that the seal functions to its optimum over the service life of the vehicle, the geometry of the seal has been optimised, with a different material now being used.
The result of these modifications is that the coding data for the sunroof or panoramic roof anti-trap mechanism MUST also be adjusted and updated when changing a seal. The reason for this adjustment is an altered force path in the closing mode when the new seal has been fitted. The altered closing forces are stored in the vehicle's updated I levels, as appropriate to the vehicle projects.
E60/E61: The measure is relevant for coding on vehicles up to the introduction into series production of I level 08-09-530. On vehicles with I level 08-09-530 as standard, no coding is necessary. The coding data is incorporated with ISTA/P P2.31.2 or PROGMAN V31.2."
I had this problem on my E60 sunroof, wind noise was terrible. Fitted a new seal ( £30 ) which took about 30 mins taking time to remove the old one and clean all the old glue residue away etc. Doesn't need coding, there's a YouTube guide on how to reset the sunroof as you will need to do this. Mine has been noise free since.
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