M5 sold M3 Arrived Hope I dont regret it.
Discussion
Well after 3.5 glorious years I have reluctantly sold the E39 M5 for a E92 M3, First impressions are that the M3 feels far less torquey than the M5! I could literally pull away in 5th-6th from a standstill in the M5 and be making phenomanal progress within seconds whereas the M3 is a far more revvy engine, that needs to be revved to get the best from it.. But when you do it is absolutely phenomenal, Final question for the experts... I never used to use Sport mode in the M5 as it wasn't necessary, However I find the M3 needs it to make it feel properly quick! Am I just used to the M5's torque? Surely a lghter car with more bhp should be much quicker!!
Edited by mr sagman on Wednesday 13th June 00:04
On my M3 (manual gearbox) I always found that i preferred the sharper response from having the throttle setting set to sport for all driving conditions - I suspect its more of a perception thing rather than making the car any faster. I can't comment on E92 M3 vs E39 M5, but I always found the mid range acceleration in 3rd, 4th and even 5th was perfectly adequate for making good progress.
You had approx 370 lbft (500nm) of torque in the e39 m5 and the e9x m3 has 290ftlb (400nm)so its understandable. You have moved to a smaller engine after all. Even if you account for gear ratios (and final drives) in both cars, the e39 m5 can put more torque down in low gears but doesn't quite have the rev range that the m3 does.
The E39 M5's V8 (S62)is a very gutsy engine giving you great torque really low down in the rev range (as you know).
The M3 does require you to really ring its neck to get the performance and has a very linear torque. It is very quick and a good bit lighter so it is technically faster to 60mph. The weight makes a nice difference. You will probably have to mentally tell your self not to change up a gear as early as you would have done in the m5. The torque stays high right up to the redline which is why the stock vs stock HP is slightly higher in the M3. They are both awesome, but quite different. Im sure the m3 will grow on you.
The E39 M5's V8 (S62)is a very gutsy engine giving you great torque really low down in the rev range (as you know).
The M3 does require you to really ring its neck to get the performance and has a very linear torque. It is very quick and a good bit lighter so it is technically faster to 60mph. The weight makes a nice difference. You will probably have to mentally tell your self not to change up a gear as early as you would have done in the m5. The torque stays high right up to the redline which is why the stock vs stock HP is slightly higher in the M3. They are both awesome, but quite different. Im sure the m3 will grow on you.
Edited by BenGismo on Tuesday 12th June 23:11
Ref the M3 Sport button... As far as I can tell from driving mine, and from the handbook, the Sport button makes no difference to the amount of torque / power on tap - it just sharpens the throttle response.
Just back from 1500 miles to the Dordogne and back in mine, and can happily say I still love it as much now as I did when I bought it a year ago... probably more, which (given my propensity to change cars every few months) is no small thing!
Autoroute sliproads have never been so much fun... hard on the throttle from 30mph and all the way up to the redline, Mrs Gruber looking wild-eyed and frightened.... Happy days!
Just back from 1500 miles to the Dordogne and back in mine, and can happily say I still love it as much now as I did when I bought it a year ago... probably more, which (given my propensity to change cars every few months) is no small thing!
Autoroute sliproads have never been so much fun... hard on the throttle from 30mph and all the way up to the redline, Mrs Gruber looking wild-eyed and frightened.... Happy days!
The sport button doesnt change the amount of power you get, it just changes the throttle map (eg full throttle travel in all settings equals throttle butterflies fully open, but half thorttle in normal might only equal throttle butterflies 30% open, whereas in sport+ half throttle travel might equal 75% throttle butterflies open - note those numbers are not correct, but just trying to demonstrate the theory).
I find the normal setting too lazy, and the sport+ setting is far too sensitive to allow any finesse, the sport setting is where I have mine set all the time.
The engine in the M3 is very very similar in character to the Honda vtec engines (as found in civic type r and s2000), they need revving right to just before the limiter to feel fast. Its a great engine if you like that sort of thing ( I love it), but if you dont its likely to be disappointing.
I find the normal setting too lazy, and the sport+ setting is far too sensitive to allow any finesse, the sport setting is where I have mine set all the time.
The engine in the M3 is very very similar in character to the Honda vtec engines (as found in civic type r and s2000), they need revving right to just before the limiter to feel fast. Its a great engine if you like that sort of thing ( I love it), but if you dont its likely to be disappointing.
well done OP - i dont think you will regret it - the engine is a short stroke masterpiece - its just that you have to learn to hang onto the gears a bit longer to get the sweet spot - by which time you are not hanging around. i have a 6spd manual and exercised it a little and reached more or less the limiter in 5th the other day - was surprised when you are really ragging it how it still pulls well at higher speeds.
i think as you adapt to the motor you'll come to love the frenetic screaming top end - and it does not sound too bad either at the upper rev ranges. i have a 7 with a high spec cosworth bdg which with L1 cams - comes on cam at 5000 and is limited for reliability to 8250 - almost identical powerband to the m3 really - which shows the cammy race engine characteristics of the m3 motor. i am delighted with my e90 - and i like the fact that to access the powerband you really have to work at it - its very jekyll and hyde. i find the reward of the top end intoxicating and exercising restraint a bit of a challenge - saw this vid the other day which demo'd the fact that if it was destricted its not a shabby performance to reach 182 in a baby 3 series..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDywowKz8xk&fea...
i think as you adapt to the motor you'll come to love the frenetic screaming top end - and it does not sound too bad either at the upper rev ranges. i have a 7 with a high spec cosworth bdg which with L1 cams - comes on cam at 5000 and is limited for reliability to 8250 - almost identical powerband to the m3 really - which shows the cammy race engine characteristics of the m3 motor. i am delighted with my e90 - and i like the fact that to access the powerband you really have to work at it - its very jekyll and hyde. i find the reward of the top end intoxicating and exercising restraint a bit of a challenge - saw this vid the other day which demo'd the fact that if it was destricted its not a shabby performance to reach 182 in a baby 3 series..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDywowKz8xk&fea...
OP
please post to this thread on a semi reular basis and let us know how you are getting on.
I am on my second E39 M5 and love the car. Will be in the market for a change any time from next Feb on. Part of me says to hell with it just get an E60 but the SMG is supposedly a nightmare so I was toying with an E92?
However the worst(most disappointing) car I have ever driven (supposedly a performance car), was an Accord type r where the power only came in when you were absolutely reving the nuts off it. At nearly 50 sadly those days were a while ago. I like the instant pull of the E39 and wonder whether I could live with an engine that gives its best at screaming revs.
A tiny voice keeps whispering C63?
please post to this thread on a semi reular basis and let us know how you are getting on.
I am on my second E39 M5 and love the car. Will be in the market for a change any time from next Feb on. Part of me says to hell with it just get an E60 but the SMG is supposedly a nightmare so I was toying with an E92?
However the worst(most disappointing) car I have ever driven (supposedly a performance car), was an Accord type r where the power only came in when you were absolutely reving the nuts off it. At nearly 50 sadly those days were a while ago. I like the instant pull of the E39 and wonder whether I could live with an engine that gives its best at screaming revs.
A tiny voice keeps whispering C63?
I just love the SMG III on the E60 M5.....smooth when I want, ferocious when I want......superb at full chat.
So tired of hearing negative comments.....this garbox is sooooo suited to the E60.....made for that high-revving V10.
The E60 M5 is a man's car, the real deal, the full monty.
The M3 is....well.....you know......for the boys.
E60 M5 all the way....comfort, speed, brutality.....classy.....winning!!!!!
So tired of hearing negative comments.....this garbox is sooooo suited to the E60.....made for that high-revving V10.
The E60 M5 is a man's car, the real deal, the full monty.
The M3 is....well.....you know......for the boys.
E60 M5 all the way....comfort, speed, brutality.....classy.....winning!!!!!
Jazzer said:
I just love the SMG III on the E60 M5.....smooth when I want, ferocious when I want......superb at full chat.
So tired of hearing negative comments.....this garbox is sooooo suited to the E60.....made for that high-revving V10.
The E60 M5 is a man's car, the real deal, the full monty.
The M3 is....well.....you know......for the boys.
E60 M5 all the way....comfort, speed, brutality.....classy.....winning!!!!!
M3 a boys car? I would say a proper mans car has to be a manual!, Im sure the M60 M5 is a serious weapon, But it wasn't even on my shortlist Im afraid, It also looks a bit too cumbersome for my liking, whereas I never felt that way about my E39 M5, No doubt if I drove one for a period of time I may fall for it.So tired of hearing negative comments.....this garbox is sooooo suited to the E60.....made for that high-revving V10.
The E60 M5 is a man's car, the real deal, the full monty.
The M3 is....well.....you know......for the boys.
E60 M5 all the way....comfort, speed, brutality.....classy.....winning!!!!!
Bit of an update on the E92 guys, After a week of ownership and about 250 miles I can honestly say Im falling in love with it big time, It takes a bit of time to get what theyr'e all about.. But I can honestly say it is becoming one of the most exciting cars I have ever driven, (And I have driven a few), Its a different driving experience to the M5, More of a ballistic feel to it rather than a laid back feel with the M5, My concern was that it needed to be revved to death to really go.. This couldn't be further from the truth as it really picks up from about 3.5 -4k rpm, You can obviously push things along a lot further if you need to, but you are making phenomenal progress well before the redline, I actually did something the other night that I have not done for a very long time, And that was to go out for a late night blast, as I was desperate for another adrenaline rush from it, Much as I loved my M5 I never done that in the 3.5 years that I owned it, The M3 feels so chuckable by comparision, It really is a very exciting car to drive, Any doubts that I had, have now completely faded away, My only concern is keeping the mileage down and keeping my my licence intact, Clever people these 'M' designers.
The V10 M5 has never really floated my boat. It is an epic engine and by all accounts a magnificent car, but it's in a pretty dreary, big, 4 door body, which has never appealed to me. It simply looks too grown-up and sales rep to my eyes. The M6 on the other hand is the BMW V10 I would go for given the choice - I actually think they look terrific.
As for M3s, I've always loved them; much better looking in coupe form, fresher, more rakish, more agile, more hooligan... BMW territory. The V8 appeals more too, and the one in the M3 is a wonderful, free revving masterpiece. Great noise too (and I'll get shot down for this but more cultured and motorsport than the flatulent, curry monster sounding engine in the Merc C63 AMG) and stunning when supercharged.
One of my dream street cars would be a supercharged E92 M3 in blue, but I digress.
As for M3s, I've always loved them; much better looking in coupe form, fresher, more rakish, more agile, more hooligan... BMW territory. The V8 appeals more too, and the one in the M3 is a wonderful, free revving masterpiece. Great noise too (and I'll get shot down for this but more cultured and motorsport than the flatulent, curry monster sounding engine in the Merc C63 AMG) and stunning when supercharged.
One of my dream street cars would be a supercharged E92 M3 in blue, but I digress.
torres del paine said:
The V10 M5 has never really floated my boat. It is an epic engine and by all accounts a magnificent car, but it's in a pretty dreary, big, 4 door body, which has never appealed to me. It simply looks too grown-up and sales rep to my eyes. The M6 on the other hand is the BMW V10 I would go for given the choice - I actually think they look terrific.
As for M3s, I've always loved them; much better looking in coupe form, fresher, more rakish, more agile, more hooligan... BMW territory. The V8 appeals more too, and the one in the M3 is a wonderful, free revving masterpiece. Great noise too (and I'll get shot down for this but more cultured and motorsport than the flatulent, curry monster sounding engine in the Merc C63 AMG) and stunning when supercharged.
One of my dream street cars would be a supercharged E92 M3 in blue, but I digress.
Don't worry mate....you'll grow up eventually!As for M3s, I've always loved them; much better looking in coupe form, fresher, more rakish, more agile, more hooligan... BMW territory. The V8 appeals more too, and the one in the M3 is a wonderful, free revving masterpiece. Great noise too (and I'll get shot down for this but more cultured and motorsport than the flatulent, curry monster sounding engine in the Merc C63 AMG) and stunning when supercharged.
One of my dream street cars would be a supercharged E92 M3 in blue, but I digress.
Mr911lover said:
I have heard the smg gearbox called many a thing, smooth wasnt one of them!!!
Horrible Horrible thing.
Not an attack just wondered how much time you have spent with the SMGII / SMGIII?Horrible Horrible thing.
Obviously everything is subjective but as Jazzer said with a small amount of practise it can be really smooth. Driving gently on s2 / s3 it is very smooth and gentle between shifts so for cruising it is absolutely fine.
Then when you want too crank it up to s5 / s6 (SMGII) and it turns into a real animal. I personally love the brutal shifts when pressing on, it feels mechanical rather than a very efficient computer which wouldn't appeal to me at all tbh.
Sorry bit off topic
leeson660 said:
Not an attack just wondered how much time you have spent with the SMGII / SMGIII?
Obviously everything is subjective but as Jazzer said with a small amount of practise it can be really smooth. Driving gently on s2 / s3 it is very smooth and gentle between shifts so for cruising it is absolutely fine.
Then when you want too crank it up to s5 / s6 (SMGII) and it turns into a real animal. I personally love the brutal shifts when pressing on, it feels mechanical rather than a very efficient computer which wouldn't appeal to me at all tbh.
Sorry bit off topic
Indeed, people go by what Clarkson said and at first they do require teasing and learning but in flappy paddle mode they are just lovely to drive. Auto mode is hideous and best avoided.Obviously everything is subjective but as Jazzer said with a small amount of practise it can be really smooth. Driving gently on s2 / s3 it is very smooth and gentle between shifts so for cruising it is absolutely fine.
Then when you want too crank it up to s5 / s6 (SMGII) and it turns into a real animal. I personally love the brutal shifts when pressing on, it feels mechanical rather than a very efficient computer which wouldn't appeal to me at all tbh.
Sorry bit off topic
Yes they work great when using the paddles but the rest of the time they are appauling, plus they dont wear well.
How long have i spent with them?
In answer had numerous friends with m3/m5 and i work in Sales for BMW and again have taken in/sold many of them.
DCT however is another story
How long have i spent with them?
In answer had numerous friends with m3/m5 and i work in Sales for BMW and again have taken in/sold many of them.
DCT however is another story
Mr911lover said:
Yes they work great when using the paddles but the rest of the time they are appauling, plus they dont wear well.
How long have i spent with them?
In answer had numerous friends with m3/m5 and i work in Sales for BMW and again have taken in/sold many of them.
DCT however is another story
There speaks somebody with a "friend" with the equipment being opined on. Best to listen to somebody who actually owns one....How long have i spent with them?
In answer had numerous friends with m3/m5 and i work in Sales for BMW and again have taken in/sold many of them.
DCT however is another story
IMHO working at BMW does NOT qualify you to have an opinion - at the last BMW the guy couldn't even start the car and had to ask me to talk him through the procedure.
S
I bought a low mileage E60 M5 in December last year, I had about three months with it before the way to drive it slowly in manual mode clicked. It was always perfect when at full chat.
I think you only get it after a good time with the car but once you have its very smooth.
I still love the manual box in my GT3 but the SMGIII is a magnificent thing in my opinion.
Regards
Fred
I think you only get it after a good time with the car but once you have its very smooth.
I still love the manual box in my GT3 but the SMGIII is a magnificent thing in my opinion.
Regards
Fred
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