E60 M5 Clutch Judder Descriptions...
Discussion
Hi again 
So car has come back from dealer without dropping the box. They convinced me that it was the clutch and it wouldn't be covered under warranty. It was a moment of weakness
I've read all the clutch threads and the juddering hasn't ever been described very well (or enough for me to say yes/no that I have it), so in order to help others in my situation, I'll start with my symptoms, and anyone who has had confirmed cases of guide bush failure can agree/disagree. Hopefully even if I don't have it, others will be more readily able to decide if they do and be more confident when faced with the £2.7k risk of dropping the box.
My car has *NO* SMG/Clutch faults when plugged in at the dealers.
Mine:
1. Totally intermittent, and when the issue is not there the changes/starts are as good or better than me with a manual. I've described them as silky.
2. The juddering doesn't really happen (or is not noticeable) when you 'plant it'.
3. When taking off slowly, the clutch engages, then seems to 'slip' (but not slipping, more disengaging slightly) then engages again. Sometimes once, sometimes twice, rarely three times. To describe the sound it's like rrRRRRRrrr...rrrRRRRrrrr...RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (as it engages fully)
4. Once the clutch has been through the sequence in 3. it engages fully. There is no slip whatsoever. Even in 1st at 3k RPM when putting foot all the way down there is no slip (from the clutch, the tires sometimes do )
5. Sitting in slow moving traffic normally causes the juddering to start. When you creep forward, never really fully engaging 1st.
6. It's most noticeable taking off, but can often be felt when changing into 2nd and sometimes even 3rd (when pootling rather than driving)
7. I've noticed (although I can't say that this is 100% the case) that the revs never go above 2k when it's juddering (3. above).
8. When it's there, sometimes taking off (especially in R for some reason) can be very on/off. When it's happening parallel parking is 500% harder. I now use the handbrake to limit the speed when parking.
9. Happens most often when not in S4/S5. Although can do it in S4/S5.
In my case I am also having other issues which other's with dry bush syndrome haven't reported.
1. Gear indicator light (The one in the DIS or the M HUD) changes, then flashes, before engaging the gear. Of note is that the engine revs drop while the light is flashing, indicating to me that either the gearbox isn't shifting or the clutch isn't going back in - pointing possibly to a dry bush that's not releasing. Also thinking that it's the bush because there are no faults logged.
2. Not coming out of R when parked and trying to start. No ideas on this one, apart from it's scary.
Dealer has said that there are no faults, and that they can't find any with a test drive. Thus they said that any repairs would be on my dime, fully scaring me off them dropping the box.
Any comments/additions will be very helpful!
So car has come back from dealer without dropping the box. They convinced me that it was the clutch and it wouldn't be covered under warranty. It was a moment of weakness
I've read all the clutch threads and the juddering hasn't ever been described very well (or enough for me to say yes/no that I have it), so in order to help others in my situation, I'll start with my symptoms, and anyone who has had confirmed cases of guide bush failure can agree/disagree. Hopefully even if I don't have it, others will be more readily able to decide if they do and be more confident when faced with the £2.7k risk of dropping the box.
My car has *NO* SMG/Clutch faults when plugged in at the dealers.
Mine:
1. Totally intermittent, and when the issue is not there the changes/starts are as good or better than me with a manual. I've described them as silky.
2. The juddering doesn't really happen (or is not noticeable) when you 'plant it'.
3. When taking off slowly, the clutch engages, then seems to 'slip' (but not slipping, more disengaging slightly) then engages again. Sometimes once, sometimes twice, rarely three times. To describe the sound it's like rrRRRRRrrr...rrrRRRRrrrr...RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR (as it engages fully)
4. Once the clutch has been through the sequence in 3. it engages fully. There is no slip whatsoever. Even in 1st at 3k RPM when putting foot all the way down there is no slip (from the clutch, the tires sometimes do
)5. Sitting in slow moving traffic normally causes the juddering to start. When you creep forward, never really fully engaging 1st.
6. It's most noticeable taking off, but can often be felt when changing into 2nd and sometimes even 3rd (when pootling rather than driving)
7. I've noticed (although I can't say that this is 100% the case) that the revs never go above 2k when it's juddering (3. above).
8. When it's there, sometimes taking off (especially in R for some reason) can be very on/off. When it's happening parallel parking is 500% harder. I now use the handbrake to limit the speed when parking.
9. Happens most often when not in S4/S5. Although can do it in S4/S5.
In my case I am also having other issues which other's with dry bush syndrome haven't reported.
1. Gear indicator light (The one in the DIS or the M HUD) changes, then flashes, before engaging the gear. Of note is that the engine revs drop while the light is flashing, indicating to me that either the gearbox isn't shifting or the clutch isn't going back in - pointing possibly to a dry bush that's not releasing. Also thinking that it's the bush because there are no faults logged.
2. Not coming out of R when parked and trying to start. No ideas on this one, apart from it's scary.
Dealer has said that there are no faults, and that they can't find any with a test drive. Thus they said that any repairs would be on my dime, fully scaring me off them dropping the box.
Any comments/additions will be very helpful!
Mondial warranty.
The root cause was 'Hot spots on the flywheel' and an under the breath 'and sticking release bearing'
I saw the photos. The pictures that Eddie has uploaded in his various threads looked slightly scuffed in comparison. Also saw the clutch and it looked like (to my mind anyway) there was still a way to go.
I'm really curious about how long the second clutches will last - assuming that they've fixed the lube issue.
The root cause was 'Hot spots on the flywheel' and an under the breath 'and sticking release bearing'
I saw the photos. The pictures that Eddie has uploaded in his various threads looked slightly scuffed in comparison. Also saw the clutch and it looked like (to my mind anyway) there was still a way to go.
I'm really curious about how long the second clutches will last - assuming that they've fixed the lube issue.
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